[Sorta OT] There's a Viking campaign setting in here somewhere...

[Desdichado]

The phrase "Ultima Thule" pre-dates the viking culture. It was used by the Romans to describe lands to the far north, based on concepts handed to them by the Greeks. Only later (18th or 19th century, I believe) was this phrase handed over to describe the viking attempts to settle further west.

True enough; in fact, it predates the Romans for that matter, being a Greek term for the farthest inhabitable land to the North. It just seems to be a very poor title if it's about Vikings settling America, since they came south from Greenland to do so.

As for the Algonquians (especially of the time you are referring to), there is precious little non-gaming material in print on them. I would love to know more, but the literature tends to be hyper-specialized, mainly by historians and anthropoligists.

Yeah, I don't mind specialized literature too much though, and I also don't mind taking Colonial era Algonquians and projecting them back in time a few hundred years. After all, realism isn't so much my goal as capturing the feel of legendary Viking culture and interposing it on a pre-Colonial North America.

 

[Desdichado]

Re: Re: [Sorta OT] There's a Viking campaign setting in here somewhere...

This is a bit off topic, but I got a chuckle out of this.

It wasn't that long ago that "traditional" history didn't even account for Scandinavians being in pre-Columbus North America at all.

Well, yes and no. Leif Ericson having sailed to America, touched down briefly then sailed away back to Greenland has been in elementary school textbooks since the 1920s or 30s. But you make a good point; even history is a very fluid science, since we're constantly discovering things that make us change our entire picture of what we think happened.

The Tarim Basin mummies are another such example; three thousand year old mummies of tall, dolicocephalic people with blond, red and brown hair, wearing plaid tartans and pointed witch's hats in Xinchiang China tended to throw off the established viewpoints of how the East developed, for one thing. But that's a subject for another thread!

 

[Staffan]

True enough; in fact, it predates the Romans for that matter, being a Greek term for the farthest inhabitable land to the North.

Isn't the Greek term "Hyperborea"?

And if you want to know what vikings thought about things, do some googling for "Havamal". It means "The Song of the High One" and basically consists of Odin laying down the rules of common sense.

 

[Desdichado]

Isn't the Greek term "Hyperborea"?

Thule: Etymology: Middle English Tyle, from Old English, from Latin Thule, Thyle, from Greek ThoulE, ThylE

 

[d4]

Re: Re: Re: [Sorta OT] There's a Viking campaign setting in here somewhere...

The Tarim Basin mummies are another such example; three thousand year old mummies of tall, dolicocephalic people with blond, red and brown hair, wearing plaid tartans and pointed witch's hats in Xinchiang China tended to throw off the established viewpoints of how the East developed, for one thing. But that's a subject for another thread!

Tocharians, now there's a subject i could sink my teeth into!

unfortunately, information on the Tocharians is even sparser than that for pre-Colombian Algonquins and Vikings...

 

[Tratyn Runewind]

Hello,

Reminds me of a story I seem to remember hearing about some of the early Viking landings in America. According to the story, a party of Viking explorers in Vinland encountered several natives on a beach, sleeping under upside-down boats. The first reaction of the Vikings on seeing these natives, who looked human, yet like no men they had yet seen, was to see if they were men (who can be slain by iron) or evil spirits to be avoided. They thus took their swords and axes and chopped the natives (except for one, who escaped) to bits. Satisfied with their ability to kill these new-met people if necessary, the Vikings dubbed them "Skraelings", meaning something like "weak ones".

If that doesn't scream "D&D adventuring group", nothing does!

A more recent addition to the tales of early European settlement of America is the notion of the "Templar Refuge". This story posits that when the Knights Templar were suppressed in the early 14th Century, a band of fugitive knights took the Templar fleet (and a large portion of the fabled Templar treasure) to America, which they knew of through Viking lore passed down through Scotland's Sinclair family, descendants of Norsemen and long-time allies of the Templars. Lots of gaming potential with this tale, too, given the stories of missing Templar wealth, and the order's rumored involvement with dark magic and mysterious relics of power acquired through shady means in Egypt and the Holy Land, and the likely Templar desire for revenge on those who engineered the order's downfall...

Hope this helps stir up the old creativity kettle...

 

[Desdichado]

Reminds me of a story I seem to remember hearing about some of the early Viking landings in America. According to the story, a party of Viking explorers in Vinland encountered several natives on a beach, sleeping under upside-down boats. The first reaction of the Vikings on seeing these natives, who looked human, yet like no men they had yet seen, was to see if they were men (who can be slain by iron) or evil spirits to be avoided. They thus took their swords and axes and chopped the natives (except for one, who escaped) to bits. Satisfied with their ability to kill these new-met people if necessary, the Vikings dubbed them "Skraelings", meaning something like "weak ones".

Yes, that's in the Graenlendinga Saga, and refers to a voyage made by Thorvald Erikson (Leif's little brother.) Thorvald was later killed by the skraelings. The Saga does not, as far as I know, make any mention of wondering if they were evil spirits, though, or killing them to see if they could. Skraeling probably also means "ugly ones" although I've also heard it described as "screechers" perhaps in reference to Indian battle cries?! The Vikings certainly didn't find the skraelings weak; Thorvald was killed by one not long after the incident above, and they essentially chased Leif away from trying to settle America, as well as Karlsefni later.

 

[diaglo]

Atlas Games has a whole line of Viking stuff for d20.

 

[Bagpuss]

I think the latest DNA evidence points to an Ice Age immergration to Northern America from continentail Europe as well. Ancient people travelled much greater distances than previously suspected.

 

[Desdichado]

I'm actually just reading an article on that right now as we speak. Interesting stuff.