Most of this thread is still available through the Google cache, so I figured I might as well extract it while I still can...
[sblock=Page 1]BOZ
Creature Cataloguer
BOZ's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Last Seen: Today (06:05 AM)
Posts: 15,128
Send a message via AIM to BOZ Send a message via Yahoo to BOZ
Project - Creatures-By-Poll: Fey #5
OK, time to start working on the particulars for next fey, given the guidelines i laid out here: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=161281
Hit Dice: 16-18
Alignment: Neutral
Main Attribute: Stellar spirit - sun, moon, planets, stars, zodiac
Environment: Arctic
Size: Huge
Aurora Borealis anyone?
One idea posted previously (I didn't see any others):
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conaill
Hm... huge neutral arctic "stellar" fey... maybe they're guarding the earth's poles? Wouldn't want anyone to tip the globe off it's axis, right?
__________________
don't quote me on that.
Help update the Creature Catalog!
Check out My Homepage!
Wiki wiki!
BOZ is offline Reply With Quote
BOZ
View Public Profile
Send a private message to BOZ
Send email to BOZ
Visit BOZ's homepage!
Find More Posts by BOZ
Add BOZ to Your Buddy List
Add BOZ to your ignore list
Old 04-26-06, 02:34 AM #2
James Heard
Registered User
James Heard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Last Seen: Today (01:25 PM)
Posts: 1,168
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
I've got absolutely no clue about the etiquette or anything for these. I've read some of the other polls and just can't figure it out other than to just plop down a couple of ideas.
How about some sort of fey star-polar bears? Maybe fey that shift into scary polar bears? They normally roam around in huge polar bear form, but they turn into black-skinned little old men carrying staves when they're just asking you to get away from their poles and even larger, scarier polar bear sorts of things when they've stopped asking and proceeded into telling. I dunno how you would exactly work the whole sky/stellar thing into there specifically, maybe they always show up in groups of three or twelve? No particular reasoning on that, but what the hell. I think any polar bear that turned into 12 polar bears would be frightening
Or maybe they're just huge butterfly sorts of fey, that live in arctic caves, glow in the dark, shapechange into reasonably normal looking fey for ease of use in a campaign, and fly out occasionally in giant butterfly form to perform their rituals that create a facsimile of the aurora borealis?
__________________
<Sig space for rent>
James Heard is online now Reply With Quote
James Heard
View Public Profile
Send a private message to James Heard
Find More Posts by James Heard
Add James Heard to Your Buddy List
Add James Heard to your ignore list
Old 04-26-06, 02:54 AM #3
BOZ
Creature Cataloguer
BOZ's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Last Seen: Today (06:05 AM)
Posts: 15,128
Send a message via AIM to BOZ Send a message via Yahoo to BOZ
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Heard
I've got absolutely no clue about the etiquette or anything for these. I've read some of the other polls and just can't figure it out other than to just plop down a couple of ideas.
that's all i'm lookin' for.
BOZ is offline Reply With Quote
BOZ
View Public Profile
Send a private message to BOZ
Send email to BOZ
Visit BOZ's homepage!
Find More Posts by BOZ
Add BOZ to Your Buddy List
Add BOZ to your ignore list
Old 04-26-06, 02:56 AM #4
Conaill
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Last Seen: Today (09:23 AM)
Posts: 3,142
My Wishlist
Here's another suggestion I had on the other thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conaill
Hmm... a huge zodiac creature...
During a clear new moon, it is said that the astrological creatures of the zodiac descend upon the plains arctic to dance the dance of ages.
Since many of the animals corresponding to signs of the zodiac already have stats in D&D, you could even make this one a template. Call it "Avatar of the Zodiac" or something: take the base animal (e.g. Lion), enlarge it to size Huge and color it pitch black, with stars as eyes. A bit rough, but you get the idea...
Alternatively, you could design a base creature, and have a table with 1-2 additional abilities for each different sign. Would be much easier to balance that way...
__________________
Come join us in the Awakened Animals thread
Questions? Check the SRD, the online d20/D&D rules,
the Official D&D Game Rule FAQ, and Official D&D Errata.
Conaill is offline Reply With Quote
Conaill
View Public Profile
Find More Posts by Conaill
Add Conaill to Your Buddy List
Add Conaill to your ignore list
Old 04-26-06, 03:04 AM #5
BOZ
Creature Cataloguer
BOZ's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Last Seen: Today (06:05 AM)
Posts: 15,128
Send a message via AIM to BOZ Send a message via Yahoo to BOZ
hmm, i didn't notice that one. was there more than one thread?
BOZ is offline Reply With Quote
BOZ
View Public Profile
Send a private message to BOZ
Send email to BOZ
Visit BOZ's homepage!
Find More Posts by BOZ
Add BOZ to Your Buddy List
Add BOZ to your ignore list
Old 04-26-06, 03:39 AM #6
demiurge1138
Classic Style!
demiurge1138's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: California
Last Seen: Today (09:28 AM)
Posts: 3,857
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
I like the idea of a base creature with a different ability based on each sign of the zodiac. To really push for it to get into Dragon, we could suggest that we use the D&D zodiac that got released a couple of months ago. Either works, but I think that the submission might get a little edge if it has a tie-in to a previous article.
Also, I like the idea of them having the alternate form of a little wizened man with pitch-black skin and eyes like stars. When threatened, it could shift into its big semi-amorphous star beast (or whatever) form.
Demiurge out.
__________________
Villain- A Haiku by Demiurge
The heroes await.
They have come this far only
To die. Ha ha ha.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clueless
Prismatic Wall. - Because ships don't have brakes.
demiurge1138 is offline Reply With Quote
demiurge1138
View Public Profile
Send email to demiurge1138
Find More Posts by demiurge1138
Add demiurge1138 to Your Buddy List
Add demiurge1138 to your ignore list
Old 04-26-06, 03:37 PM #7
Shade
Monster Junkie
Shade's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Plane of Shadow
Last Seen: Today (06:24 AM)
Posts: 6,106
As a huge fan of polar bears, I second that motion.
I'm a non-fan of the D&D zodiac. I prefer the classic zodiac.
__________________
"Chuck Norris does not sleep. He waits."
"If you can see Chuck Norris, he can see you. If you can't see Chuck Norris you may be only seconds away from death."
Random Chuck Norris Facts
- Shade
Shade is offline Reply With Quote
Shade
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Shade
Find More Posts by Shade
Add Shade to Your Buddy List
Add Shade to your ignore list
Old 04-26-06, 07:05 PM #8
Conaill
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Last Seen: Today (09:23 AM)
Posts: 3,142
My Wishlist
What was the D&D zodiac like? If it was all D&D specific, non-mythological creatures, I would prefer the original one...
Conaill is offline Reply With Quote
Conaill
View Public Profile
Find More Posts by Conaill
Add Conaill to Your Buddy List
Add Conaill to your ignore list
Old 04-26-06, 07:17 PM #9
Conaill
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Last Seen: Today (09:23 AM)
Posts: 3,142
My Wishlist
Quote:
Originally Posted by demiurge1138
I like the idea of a base creature with a different ability based on each sign of the zodiac.
The other option is to make it a very high-level template instead?
You'd have to worry about synergistic interactions between the original creature's abilities and those granted by the template - even if the original creature is relatively weak.
Either way, whether we do a template or a base creature with a few additional powers, it would make it very easy for people to adapt to their own favorite zodiac.
Conaill is offline Reply With Quote
Conaill
View Public Profile
Find More Posts by Conaill
Add Conaill to Your Buddy List
Add Conaill to your ignore list
Old 04-26-06, 07:17 PM #10
Shade
Monster Junkie
Shade's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Plane of Shadow
Last Seen: Today (06:24 AM)
Posts: 6,106
I forget most of it, but I think it included a dragon and a beholder. Definitely not classical/mythological.
Shade is offline Reply With Quote
Shade
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Shade
Find More Posts by Shade
Add Shade to Your Buddy List
Add Shade to your ignore list
Old 04-26-06, 07:20 PM #11
James Heard
Registered User
James Heard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Last Seen: Today (01:25 PM)
Posts: 1,168
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
All I know about the D&D Zodiac is that I've already completely forgotten everything about it. If there is going to be a tie-in I think it would be better off going in a different direction - like attached the fey to a specific D&D god or something. Celestian's fey? Cyndor? Sehanine? If you could time those with a god article you'd be set.
James Heard is online now Reply With Quote
James Heard
View Public Profile
Send a private message to James Heard
Find More Posts by James Heard
Add James Heard to Your Buddy List
Add James Heard to your ignore list
Old 04-26-06, 07:50 PM #12
Conaill
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Last Seen: Today (09:23 AM)
Posts: 3,142
My Wishlist
If we're going with a zodiac... the more i think about, the more I'm convinced that doing a base "zodiac creature" plus some extra abilities per star sign is the right way to go.
That way, we could even have three tables with the western, eastern and D&D zodiacs. We get the tie-in *and* usefulness for everyone, regardless of what setting/zodiac they're using.
For example, the Dragon would get the base package, plus a breathweapon. The Rooster would get maybe a piercing sonic attack? The beholder might lose all physical attacks except for a bite, and gain an antimagic ray plus maybe one other. The Ram would gain some sort of devastating Slam / Awesome Blow attack. The Virgin might get some kind of Enchantment ability, etc...
Conaill is offline Reply With Quote
Conaill
View Public Profile
Find More Posts by Conaill
Add Conaill to Your Buddy List
Add Conaill to your ignore list
Old 04-26-06, 08:45 PM #13
Shade
Monster Junkie
Shade's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Plane of Shadow
Last Seen: Today (06:24 AM)
Posts: 6,106
BOZ is having login troubles again, so he asked me to post this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOZ
The zodiac template thing is getting a bit complicated. Plus, it doesn't seem to fit in well with our arctic theme, unless roosters walk around in the snow.
I do like the idea of a guardian in a polar bear like form. I'd take that as its natural form though, and it takes on another form (say, James's little man with pitch-black skin) when it wants to relate to humanoids.
If we want to go all zodiacky with it, we could give it 12 different powers, say, each only usable only at the appropriate time of the year. We could go with either the traditional zodiac, or even the one given in Dragon a few months ago (which might be easier in some ways). I'm neutral on which zodiac is better.
Shade is offline Reply With Quote
Shade
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Shade
Find More Posts by Shade
Add Shade to Your Buddy List
Add Shade to your ignore list
Old 04-26-06, 09:43 PM #14
James Heard
Registered User
James Heard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Last Seen: Today (01:25 PM)
Posts: 1,168
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
Maybe instead of lots of different powers the thing could have a breath weapon attack - ,maybe based on the prismatic series of effects, to work with the whole aurora borealis theme? It's not that I'm against the whole zodiac thing, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense with the arctic habitat and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense as a fey to me either. Zodiac creatures sound like outsiders, or maybe scary evil aberrations.
Gigantic polar bears with breath weapons though? That shapechange? That might be a fey, if you sold it right in the description. The problem with an arctic "fey as in naturalistic and nature" thing is that there aren't an awful lot of critters up there. Making them shapechange into Caribou-sorts might work, but walruses would probably just make players giggle unless their opening tactic was Power Word: TPK. Likewise, huge penguins make me think of that batman movie and everything else is either in the water, some sort of rodent or flighted bird, or a wolf I think. Wolves would be ok, except wolves are already pretty overused as a theme.
Oh, I guess they could also shapechange into wolverines. I don't think they're really arctic (I'm from Florida, what do I know?), but if you had huge-sized intelligent wolverine-fey I bet no one would bitch about it too much unless they were some sort of ice-cousteau biologist.
What sort of target CR are we talking about anyways? That's the other problem I have with zodiac creatures - that seems to me to be some sort of CR17+ minimum creature and I was thinking more along the whole CR9-15ish sweet spot, so that if you added class levels to your fey they wouldn't go epic for a while?
Maybe the whole zodiac thing could tie in with the arctic fey, but be a series of creatures additional to them? You know, "there's these pitch black fey that live in the snow, and they normally walk around in animal form making sure that people don't ever think about going further north than their masters say so and they kill you with sky and star magic. Their masters, in turn, live at the poles - sort of- where they exist as unique representations of the nighttime stars and their avatars." Forget Santa, it's Hollywood, stars live in the north pole...or something like that?
I think kung fu star magic polar bear fey sounds pretty nifty too. They could live in bleak monastaries in the snow. "I learned polar bear kung fu style." Some player would love that, somewhere. Now I've talked myself into wanting a Coke.
James Heard is online now Reply With Quote
James Heard
View Public Profile
Send a private message to James Heard
Find More Posts by James Heard
Add James Heard to Your Buddy List
Add James Heard to your ignore list
Old 04-26-06, 10:56 PM #15
Shade
Monster Junkie
Shade's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Plane of Shadow
Last Seen: Today (06:24 AM)
Posts: 6,106
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Heard
Maybe instead of lots of different powers the thing could have a breath weapon attack - ,maybe based on the prismatic series of effects, to work with the whole aurora borealis theme? It's not that I'm against the whole zodiac thing, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense with the arctic habitat and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense as a fey to me either. Zodiac creatures sound like outsiders, or maybe scary evil aberrations.
Oooh...I like this idea. Alot!
Shade is offline Reply With Quote
Shade
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Shade
Find More Posts by Shade
Add Shade to Your Buddy List
Add Shade to your ignore list
Old 04-26-06, 11:20 PM #16
Conaill
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Last Seen: Today (09:23 AM)
Posts: 3,142
My Wishlist
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOZ
The zodiac template thing is getting a bit complicated. Plus, it doesn't seem to fit in well with our arctic theme, unless roosters walk around in the snow.
Maybe each zodiac creature can normally only appear on earth directly underneath the segment of the sky in which its sign appears. So the only place they could all congregate (not to mention move at a mortal speed ) would be directly underneath the North Star or its South Pole equivalent.
Problem solved.
(Plus I do still like the "guardians of the earth's poles" idea... that could be incorporated as well.)
Conaill is offline Reply With Quote
Conaill
View Public Profile
Find More Posts by Conaill
Add Conaill to Your Buddy List
Add Conaill to your ignore list
Old 04-27-06, 12:28 AM #17
BOZ
Creature Cataloguer
BOZ's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Last Seen: Today (06:05 AM)
Posts: 15,128
Send a message via AIM to BOZ Send a message via Yahoo to BOZ
nah, i dislike the template idea - going to have to veto it.
BOZ is offline Reply With Quote
BOZ
View Public Profile
Send a private message to BOZ
Send email to BOZ
Visit BOZ's homepage!
Find More Posts by BOZ
Add BOZ to Your Buddy List
Add BOZ to your ignore list
Old 04-27-06, 01:27 AM #18
James Heard
Registered User
James Heard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Last Seen: Today (01:25 PM)
Posts: 1,168
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
Another idea: Make the whole zodiac creatures the FOES of the kung fu star magic polar bear fey, and make them the outsider/aberrations thingees and that gives the fey a reason that they're "protecting" all that precious snow and ice: they're protecting the world from nastiness that intrudes upon the poles, and waa-lah a possibly useful plot hook is born. Going to the absolutely not precisely proposed zodiac monsters that are not fey, I'd be inclined to group their relevant signs together a bit to cut down on the amount of creatures and just plop those nasty heads on some sort of appropriately icky body by some sort of elemental or otherwise arrangement (like in the normal Western zodiac they have water signs and fire signs etc). So you'd have 4 monstrous sorts with three heads each that the kung fu star magic polar bear fey fight in the snow, flying around tossing pretty-color breath weapons at the bad guys and using their scary polar bear routine to break boards while they use their little old man routine to sip tea and trade for nunchakus and such.
Or maybe I just need to stop stream-o'consciousness posting...These are some really awful sentence structures I'm dishing out today.
James Heard is online now Reply With Quote
James Heard
View Public Profile
Send a private message to James Heard
Find More Posts by James Heard
Add James Heard to Your Buddy List
Add James Heard to your ignore list
Old 04-27-06, 01:29 AM #19
Conaill
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Last Seen: Today (09:23 AM)
Posts: 3,142
My Wishlist
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOZ
nah, i dislike the template idea - going to have to veto it.
Just to clarify - I've tossed around two *separate* ideas here. One of which was to do it as a template, and I agree that one is no good. Templates are just way too messy: they involve too much calculation, and they're too hard to get the CR right (and balanced, depending on what base creature you start with).
In contrast, the original idea was to make a "vanilla" zodiac creature, to which you would add one special ability to match each of the individual star signs. Very different from the template approach. Most of the article would be dedicated to outlining the basic creature - stat block and all - and each variant could be described in only a few words, eg "Dragon: 20d6 breath weapon, cone of fire or cold", or "Virgin: Charm Monster, 5/day", or "Sagittarius: +5 longbow, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot and Manyshot". Kinda like vanilla ice cream with different toppings, to continue the analogy.
You should be able to run these straight off the page, as it were. Instead of needing to spend half an hour with a notepad to figure out what a templated creature will look like, stat-wise...
Last edited by Conaill : 04-27-06 at 02:01 AM.
Conaill is offline Reply With Quote
Conaill
View Public Profile
Find More Posts by Conaill
Add Conaill to Your Buddy List
Add Conaill to your ignore list
Old 04-27-06, 01:37 AM #20
demiurge1138
Classic Style!
demiurge1138's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: California
Last Seen: Today (09:28 AM)
Posts: 3,857
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
I'm pretty sure that BOZ has nixed the template, but the zodiac coat over the generic star-bear is still a possibility. And I'm not entirely sure it's one I'm terribly fond of, personally. If we give it a lot of options, it becomes some work for the DM to make it usable in his game. We want our monsters to be as utilizable as possible, right? The sidebar-of-zodiac-possibilities is flavorful, but potentially clunky. I'm not outright saying I don't like it, but I'm a bit leery.
As for the connection to the aurora borealis, if we were going to choose that, how would we model it? Prismatic spray? A breath weapon of half fire and half electricity (which is probably the best D&D way of modeling superhot ions)? Some hypnotic pattern-like ability? A combination of the above?
Demiurge out.
demiurge1138 is offline Reply With Quote
demiurge1138
View Public Profile
Send email to demiurge1138
Find More Posts by demiurge1138
Add demiurge1138 to Your Buddy List
Add demiurge1138 to your ignore list
Old 04-27-06, 02:24 AM #21
James Heard
Registered User
James Heard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Last Seen: Today (01:25 PM)
Posts: 1,168
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
Quote:
As for the connection to the aurora borealis, if we were going to choose that, how would we model it? Prismatic spray? A breath weapon of half fire and half electricity (which is probably the best D&D way of modeling superhot ions)? Some hypnotic pattern-like ability? A combination of the above?
Personally I'd make it modelled directly after prismatic spray, because it's cool, dangerous, and making it a breath weapon doesn't really make it much more complex. If it's something else, like any sort of combination of damage, then you'd probably end up tagging it with some other effect anyways to make it more interesting because if these suckers pop up as an encounter you want the players cued off immediately, and straight damage might confuse some players as to the true nature of the things. Prismatic spray breath doesn't ring any automatic "I've heard of that" bells in my skull, while "damaging breath weapon" from the polar bears sort of makes me think of templates. The hypnotic pattern ability also makes a lot of sense, as would any sort of charm effect. I think something like that might be interesting for their alternate forms though, assuming they ditch the breath weapon when they turn into old men. Maybe their eyes in humanoid form have a gaze attack that helps them persuade people to trade with them. Another good spell effect to slap down on top of either side of the equation might be confusion. I suppose it really depends on how powerful you want the things to be.
If we go with kung fu magic polar bears you'd probably naturally want to give them a hodge podge of classic ninja/monk abilities. Trackless step, improved evasion, ethereal step, slow fall, and bumping up their assumed damage die class for their size seems fairly appropriate. Add in the breath weapon of any sort, assume the huge size is for Polar Bears, and you've already got a pretty vicious little critter. Add in a spell like ability list of one or two tricks using some of the new spells from Frostburn and you've got something crazy.
James Heard is online now Reply With Quote
James Heard
View Public Profile
Send a private message to James Heard
Find More Posts by James Heard
Add James Heard to Your Buddy List
Add James Heard to your ignore list
Old 04-27-06, 03:20 AM #22
Conaill
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Last Seen: Today (09:23 AM)
Posts: 3,142
My Wishlist
I think some sort of fascination/hypnosis/illusion would fit better for the Aurora. Would fit better with them being *fey* as well (compared to a breath weapon...).
Alternatively, this could also be some form of art for these guys (they are Neutral after all... they don't have to be aggressive). Or maybe it's a side effect of some mighty magics or battle?
Anyone know any good legends ripe for plundering, regarding te Aurora Borealis? I'd love it if we could steal something from, say, real Inuit folk tales or mythology...
PS: Not terribly fond of the kung-fu angle
Conaill is offline Reply With Quote
Conaill
View Public Profile
Find More Posts by Conaill
Add Conaill to Your Buddy List
Add Conaill to your ignore list
Old 04-27-06, 03:57 AM #23
Conaill
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Last Seen: Today (09:23 AM)
Posts: 3,142
My Wishlist
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conaill
Anyone know any good legends ripe for plundering, regarding te Aurora Borealis? I'd love it if we could steal something from, say, real Inuit folk tales or mythology...
Aah... Google to the rescue! Here's a few extracts (sorry for the length!):
Legends and Folklore of the Northern Lights
Quote:
The ends of the land and sea are bounded by an immense abyss, over which a narrow and dangerous pathway leads to the heavenly regions. The sky is a great dome of hard material arched over the Earth. There is a hole in it through which the spirits pass to the true heavens. Only the spirits of those who have died a voluntary or violent death, and the raven, have been over this pathway. The spirits who live there light torches to guide the feet of new arrivals. This is the light of the aurora. They can be seen there feasting and playing football with a walrus skull.
The whistling crackling noise which sometimes accompanies the aurora is the voices of these spirits trying to communicate with the people of the Earth. They should always be answered in a whispering voice. Youths dance to the aurora. The heavenly spirits are called selamiut, "sky-dwellers," those who live in the sky.
Most Eskimo groups have a myth of the northern lights as the spirits of the dead playing ball with a walrus head or skull. The Eskimos of Nunivak Island had the opposite idea, of walrus spirits playing with a human skull.
The Makah Indians of Washington State thought the lights were fires in the Far North, over which a tribe of dwarfs, half the length of a canoe paddle and so strong they caught whales with their hands, boiled blubber.
The Mandan of North Dakota explained the northern lights as fires over which the great medicine men and warriors of northern nations simmered their dead enemies in enormous pots. The Menominee Indians of Wisconsin regarded the lights as torches used by great, friendly giants in the north, to spear fish at night.
Aurora Borealis
Quote:
The Finns believed them magical "fire foxes" that lit up the sky with sparks that flew from their glistening fur.
The people of the Hebrides knew them as "nimble men" shining fairies playing joyfully.
Even today in the north, children are told not to whistle or sing to the northern lights. "The lights will come and take you away. They are not to be trusted." Many of the Inuit carvings display the Aurora Borealis as decapitating heads of unsuspecting people.
Aurora Borealis II
Quote:
The Finnish name for the northern lights "revontulet" is associated with the arctic fox. According to a folk tale, an arctic fox is running far in the north and touching the mountains with its fur, so that sparks fly off into the sky as the northern lights. Another version of the story says the fox throws the northern lights up into the sky by sweeping snow upwards with its tail. A more developed version then explains how moonlight is reflected from the snowflakes swept up into the sky by the fox's tail.
Aurora Borealis
Quote:
In the direction of the north wind live the manabai'wok (giants), of whom we have heard our old people tell. The manabai'wok are out friends, but we do not see them anymore. They are great hunters and fishermen, and whenever they are out with their torches to spear fish we know it, because then the sky is bright over the place where they are.
Aurora Borealis
Quote:
In Scotland, the lights were often called Merry Dancers or Nimble Men. One prevalent story concerns the Fir Chlis, which also means "nimble man" in Scots Gaelic, who would take part in a fight between two clans whose chieftains vied for the affections of a fairy woman. The red sky beneath the celestial battlefield was sometimes called the an linne fhuil which in English means the "pool of blood" Sometimes the blood of the warriors slain in battle would fall from the heavens and land as stones, called the fuil siochare or fairy blood. According to folklore, these stones could then often used in various spells or charms.
There are many stories in Scotland which concern the Fir Chlis. One of these tells of a young boy who went out fishing. His boat is taken adrift, and being as it is night he falls asleep. When he awakens he looks about and sees several giants dancing around a huge bonfire. They are still in the distance, and so when he takes a closer look he realizes that they are not dancing but rather engaged in a fierce battle with each other. Looking down in to the water, the terrified boy realizes that the water is not water at all but rather an ocean of blood and is drifting toward the giants. Gripped with fear, he collapses back into the boat and awakens the next morning. To his amazement he finds that he is safely returned to the shore near his village, however, both he and his boat are covered with blood. He also finds that the experience has endowed him with the second sight.
The movements of the Merry Dancers were also watched by the fishermen of the Shetland. If the lights moved too quickly, the weather would be bad, but if they moved in slow graceful motions the omen was considered favorable.
The Merry Men, anciently written as "merrie men," was used as a frequent term in early songs and ballads of Northern England. Sometimes the aurora borealis in these verses was related to the a kind of cloth which contained party-colored stripes and sometimes streaks of gold and silver.
Wikipedia Aurora (astronomy)
Quote:
In Scotland, the northern lights were known as "the merry dancers" or na fir-chlis. There are many old sayings about them, including the Scottish Gaelic proverb "When the merry dancers play, they are like to slay." The playfulness of the merry dancers was supposed to end occasionally in quite a serious fight, and next morning when children saw patches of red lichen on the stones, they say amongst themselves that "the merry dancers bled each other last night".
Conaill is offline Reply With Quote
Conaill
View Public Profile
Find More Posts by Conaill
Add Conaill to Your Buddy List
Add Conaill to your ignore list
Old 04-27-06, 04:29 AM #24
James Heard
Registered User
James Heard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Last Seen: Today (01:25 PM)
Posts: 1,168
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
Quote:
PS: Not terribly fond of the kung-fu angle
Meh. All I know is that there aren't many fey in the first place, and as far as I can think of this would be the first ninja fey kung fu bears ever. Plus, even if everyone just goes wide-eyed and mutters WTF under their breath it's freakin' memorable.
Quote:
Alternatively, this could also be some form of art for these guys (they are Neutral after all... they don't have to be aggressive). Or maybe it's a side effect of some mighty magics or battle?
That's more of what I was thinking, that the breath weapon was a representation of their "pretty colors" fey nature than anything else. It's visual, and visual attacks (death gazes, charming gazes, hypnosis, etc) all seem to be pretty par for the course with fey. Of course, so does flying but I'm resistant to the idea of slapping wings on a polar bear or a caribou or a wolverine (and unspeakably appalled by the idea of a flying walrus- enough so that it also is horrifically appealing too, go figure).
Quote:
Anyone know any good legends ripe for plundering, regarding te Aurora Borealis? I'd love it if we could steal something from, say, real Inuit folk tales or mythology...
Beliefs In Ancient Times
Quote:
One other possibility was that the sun threw its beams high in the sky although the sun itself was located beneath the edge of the earth plate.
A third possibility was that glaciers could absorb so much power that they began to shine.
One of the ancient Swedish names for aurora is sillblixt (herring flash). The name comes from people who thought that the aurora was a reflection of large herring shoals in the ocean. This is preserved in documents from Närke and different parts of Norway.
From Närke comes yet another explanation, the aurora was believed to arise from the Laplanders' torches when they were looking for their reindeer in the mountains.
In Småland some people believed that the swans had a competition about flying furthest to the north. Those who got furthest froze in the sky. The aurora arises when the swans try to come loose by flapping their wings.
The Finnish name for aurora is revontulet, fox fires. According to the legend there were fire foxes in Lapland and the auroras were sparks given off by their fur as they ran in the mountains.
The natives, for example Indians and Laplanders, who live in the aurora zones today think that the aurora is something to be respected. This opinion is still active in our century. A lot of elderly people living in the north of Sweden can remember as children being told to act nice and silent when there were auroras in the sky. To misbehave at that time was very serious.
In both Scandinavia and North America some people believe that you can call the aurora by whistling, but to do so can be dangerous.
There are a lot of stories describing how dangerous the aurora could be. There is a story about a young man from Norway, who despite his big brother's warnings, was killed by the aurora because he was teasing it.
Some people would not let their children outside to play while there were auroras, since they could get killed. Others thought it was all right as long as the children had hats on, so that the aurora would not burn their hair off.
A lot of people thought that auroras, especially the red ones, foretold bad times, such as plague, war or great fires. The reddish auroras often made people believe that a city close by was on fire and they rushed there only to find that it was not the case. It is easy to see how people who were not used to auroras could mistake them for fires, especially since most of the houses were made of wood and easily caught fire.
For the Laplanders, as for other people in northern Europe, Asia and America, the aurora was a place for the dead. Above all it were people who had died a violent or too early death who came to live in the aurora. It could be people who were murdered, killed in war, took their own life, died in child birth or unborn children.
In some areas the spirits of the dead seemed to have quite a good time in the aurora. The Inuits in Greenland and northern Canada thought that the spirits were playing soccer with a walrus skull. Their name for the aurora is aqsalijaat, the trail of those who play soccer. From Baffin Island it is told that the walrus skull found it all so amusing that it clattered its jaws. Those who looked at their ancestors' games had to look out so they did not get their heads knocked off by the skull.
The Laplanders thought that auroras and the weather were connected. When the aurora was flaming high in the sky the weather would be warm. By the magic influence of the aurora they thought it was possible to also influence the weather. This could be done in many different ways. In Kvikkjokk they called out a chant which started "gokseth (aurora) lipi, lipi". Lipi is short for lihphuit that means flutter. From Vilhelmina it is told that you could make the aurora flutter by waving a white sheet.
All people did not think that a fluttering aurora meant warm weather, some thought that it was getting cold and others that there was a storm coming. Most people believed that a fluttering aurora meant a change in the weather though.
Viking Answer Lady Says:
Quote:
The Old Norse word for the aurora borealis is norðrljós, "northern lights". The first occurrence of the term norðrljós is in the book Konungs Skuggsjá (The King's Mirror, known in Latin as Speculum Regalae), written in 1250 AD, after the end of the Viking Age (the Viking Age dates ca. 800-1100AD), describing the Northern Lights as seen by settlers in Greenland:
"But as to that matter which you have often inquired about, what those lights can be which the Greenlanders call the northern lights, I have no clear knowledge. I have often met men who have spent a long time in Greenland, but they do not seem to know definitely what those lights are. However, it is true of that subject as of many others of which we have no sure knowledge, that thoughtful men will form opinions and conjectures about it and will make such guesses as seem reasonable and likely to be true. But these northern lights have this peculiar nature, that the darker the night is, the brighter they seem; and they always appear at night but never by day, most frequently in the densest darkness and rarely by moonlight. In appearance they resemble a vast flame of fire viewed from a great distance. It also looks as if sharp points were shot from this flame up into the sky; these are of uneven height and in constant motion, now one, now another darting highest; and the light appears to blaze like a living flame. While these rays are at their highest and brightest, they give forth so much light that people out of doors can easily find their way about and can even go hunting, if need be. Where people sit in houses that have windows, it is so light inside that all within the room can see each other's faces. The light is very changeable. Sometimes it appears to grow dim, as if a black smoke or a dark fog were blown up among the rays; and then it looks very much as if the light were overcome by this smoke and about to be quenched. But as soon as the smoke begins to grow thinner, the light begins to brighten again; and it happens at times that people think they see large sparks shooting out of it as from glowing iron which has just been taken from the forge. But as night declines and day approaches, the light begins to fade; and when daylight appears, it seems to vanish entirely.
The men who have thought about and discussed these lights have guessed at three sources, one of which, it seems, ought to be the true one. Some hold that fire circles about the ocean and all the bodies of water that stream about on the outer sides of the globe; and since Greenland lies on the outermost edge of the earth to the north, they think it possible that these lights shine forth from the fires that encircle the outer ocean. Others have suggested that during the hours of night, when the sun's course is beneath the earth, an occasional gleam of its light may shoot up into the sky; for they insist that Greenland lies so far out on the earth's edge that the curved surface which shuts out the sunlight must be less prominent there. But there are still others who believe (and it seems to me not unlikely) that the frost and the glaciers have become so powerful there that they are able to radiate forth these flames. I know nothing further that has been conjectured on this subject, only these three theories that I have presented; as to their correctness I do not decide, though the last mentioned looks quite plausible to me."
There appears to be no substantiation for a connection between the god Ullr and the aurorae. People seem to have made a leap from the etymology of the god's name, which is connected with roots meaning "glory, shining", to the idea of the Northern Lights.
Similarly, there is the claim in Bullfinch's Mythology that the armor of the Valkyries "sheds a strange flickering light, which flashes up over the northern skies" making the aurora. Once again, there is nothing mentioned in the Old Norse literature that substatiates this assertion, and it can only be taken as either a fanciful interpretation, or perhaps an accretion from later folklore that arose after the end of the Viking Age.
A third misunderstanding about the Vikings and the Northern Lights is that the colorful auroral archways were identified as the Bifröst Bridge, which was a trembling and fiery path that fallen warriors could travel to Valhalla. In Gylfaginning ch. 13, a part of Snorri Sturluson's Prose Edda, we are clearly told that this bridge is in fact the rainbow:
Er þér eigi sagt það að guðin gerðu brú til himins af jörðu, og heitir Bifröst? Hana muntu séð hafa. Kann vera að það kallir þú regnboga. Hún er með þrem litum og mjög sterk og ger með list og kunnáttu meiri en aðrir smíðir.
Have you never been told that the gods built a bridge from earth to heaven called Bifröst? (Quivering Roadway) You will have seen it, (but) maybe you call it the rainbow. It has three colors and is very strong, and made with more skill and cunning than other structures.
Aurora Borealis: Mythology
Quote:
Inuits have all kinds of beliefs about the aurora. They believe that aurora are formed when the souls of the dead play football with the skull of the walrus. Another belief is that the aurora are souls of their unborn children or torches of their ancestors. They also think that if you look at the aurora too much, you will go crazy.
In Siberia and Japan some tribes believe that if a child is conceived under the aurora sky, the offspring will have a long and happy life. Aurora will also help in the delivery.
In Finland people had a belief a long time ago that the aurora are formed when a fire-fox flings the snow with its tail so that the sparks fly up to the sky and form shapes of the aurora. That's why Northern lights (English), Aurora Borealis ("Latin"), norrsken (Swedish), Polarlicht (German) are called "revontulet" ("Fox's fire") in Finland.
Another Finnish belief is that aurora formed a burning river that connected the worlds of the living and the dead. There is a very similar belief in Norway but they believed that it was a burning bridge, not a river, which connected the Earth and the Heavens. In Norway some people also believed that the aurora were dancing women.
Norwegians believed also that bad weather could be predicted from aurora. And the Inuits on the other hand believed that it was a sign of good weather. Some people think even today that the aurora are dangerous, so they arm themselves. Vikings had a perception that if there was occurrence of the aurora it would mean that a war was coming.
In Canada people think that if you whistle the aurora will come closer but if their come too close they will take you.
The Lakota pantheon
Quote:
Waziya (Blower-From-Snow-Pines) The north wind, bringer of winter and, thus, also a patron of famine and disease. He guards the dancing sky (the aurora borealis), and is constantly in conflict with Okaga and with the Wakinyan. He has special control over ice and snow.
The Celtic Pantheon
Quote:
ARIANRHOD
(Welsh) "Silver Wheel", "High Fruitful Mother", "Star Goddess", Sky Goddess; Virgin Goddess of reincarnation; Full Moon Goddess. Her palace was called Caer Arianrhod (Aurora Borealis) Keeper of the circling Silver Wheel of Stars; a symbol of time or karma. This wheel was also know as the Oar Wheel, a ship which carried dead warriors to the Moon land (Emania). Mother of Lleu Llaw Gyffes and Dylan by her brother Gwydion. Her original consort was Nwyvre (Sky or Firmament). Mother aspect of the Triple Goddess in Wales. Honored at the Full Moon. Beauty, fertility, reincarnation.
Arianrhod's name means 'silver circle'. This major Welsh Goddess is the Goddess of reincarnation, the Wheel of the Year, the full moon, fertility, an da primal figure of female power. Some Celtic scholars believe her story represents the shift from woman-centered clans to patriarchal power.
Her heavenly star/island, Caer Arianrhod in the Corona Borealis, is believed in some Welsh traditions to be the place where dead souls go to await reincarnation. There she lives with her female attendants presiding over the fates of the departed.
She is sometimes depicted as a weaver, which links her to lost creation myths and to magickal practice, sometimes called 'weaving a spell'.
Arianrhod mated freely with whomever she chose and was not questioned until the magician Math claimed she had conceived two children that she had not borne. By jumping a staff she gave birth to Llew and Dylan. Dylan left immediately to go to the sea. Arianrhod denied the remaining son, Llew, the right to bear a name or arms, as was a Welsh mother's right to bestow. She was later tricked into bestowing both.
She married her brother Gwyddion, and she is the daughter of the great Welsh Goddess, Don.
Arianrhod can be invoked to help females find their own feminine power. She can also assist you with spirit contact, sex and fertility magick, and past-life knowledge. Because her myths are linked with jumping the broom, an event which is part of Pagan marriage, she can be called upon to bless Handfasting rites.
Abenaki Indian mythology
Quote:
Wassan-mon-ganeehla-ak - a race of people who play games with a ball of light, causing the Aurora Borealis
James Heard is online now Reply With Quote
James Heard
View Public Profile
Send a private message to James Heard
Find More Posts by James Heard
Add James Heard to Your Buddy List
Add James Heard to your ignore list
Old 04-27-06, 05:32 AM #25
demiurge1138
Classic Style!
demiurge1138's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: California
Last Seen: Today (09:28 AM)
Posts: 3,857
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
I like the idea of walrus-heads as much as polar bears. Walrus-headed polar bears? Juggling heads? Maybe it throws spectral heads that burst in rainbow patterns?
OK, maybe that's a bit silly.
Demiurge out.
demiurge1138 is offline Reply With Quote
demiurge1138
View Public Profile
Send email to demiurge1138
Find More Posts by demiurge1138
Add demiurge1138 to Your Buddy List
Add demiurge1138 to your ignore list
Old 04-27-06, 07:02 AM #26
James Heard
Registered User
James Heard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Last Seen: Today (01:25 PM)
Posts: 1,168
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
I whipped up an inspirational sketch of rainbow breath weapon polar bear...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg kungfupolarbear-wip.jpg (113.3 KB, 6 views)
Last edited by James Heard : 04-27-06 at 07:27 AM.
James Heard is online now Reply With Quote
James Heard
View Public Profile
Send a private message to James Heard
Find More Posts by James Heard
Add James Heard to Your Buddy List
Add James Heard to your ignore list
Old 04-27-06, 03:46 PM #27
Shade
Monster Junkie
Shade's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Plane of Shadow
Last Seen: Today (06:24 AM)
Posts: 6,106
Wow...inspirational stuff!
Just a few things that caught my eye:
Quote:
The Laplanders thought that auroras and the weather were connected. When the aurora was flaming high in the sky the weather would be warm. By the magic influence of the aurora they thought it was possible to also influence the weather. This could be done in many different ways. In Kvikkjokk they called out a chant which started "gokseth (aurora) lipi, lipi". Lipi is short for lihphuit that means flutter. From Vilhelmina it is told that you could make the aurora flutter by waving a white sheet.
"Flutter" could be "wings" made of flickering lights...or perhaps the gossamer wings move so fast that they actually create light patterns?
Several themes concern bridging the gap between life and death, including reincarnation. Since reincarnation is generally a "natural" form of restoring life (since it is a druid-only spell), this could be an interesting angle.
I still like the idea of a "breath weapon" (whether it actually be breath or shot from its tail/eyes/etc.) that delivers prismatic spray/rainbow pattern/etc. effects.
Dancing lights, control weather, and rainbow pattern all seem good fits for SLAs.
For some reason, "shimmer bear" seems right for this guy (in another language, of course!)
Shade is offline Reply With Quote
Shade
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Shade
Find More Posts by Shade
Add Shade to Your Buddy List
Add Shade to your ignore list
Old 04-27-06, 05:24 PM #28
Conaill
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Last Seen: Today (09:23 AM)
Posts: 3,142
My Wishlist
Love the image, James!
One angle we haven't explored yet is that the Aurora Borealis could simply *be* our fey! There was some mention in the various folklore links that the Aurora may have been the inspiration for the sinuous chinese dragons.
We're designing a creature of size Huge, which is the same size as an adult red dragon, for example. So why not a whispy, semi-transparent, incorporeal flying creature?
Conaill is offline Reply With Quote
Conaill
View Public Profile
Find More Posts by Conaill
Add Conaill to Your Buddy List
Add Conaill to your ignore list
Old 04-27-06, 06:43 PM #29
Shade
Monster Junkie
Shade's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Plane of Shadow
Last Seen: Today (06:24 AM)
Posts: 6,106
That's another option, or possibly an alternate form, to explore.
Frostburn has dire polar bears which are Huge, so our beloved polar bear concept still works well.
Shade is offline Reply With Quote
Shade
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Shade
Find More Posts by Shade
Add Shade to Your Buddy List
Add Shade to your ignore list
Old 04-28-06, 03:48 AM #30
Bihor
Registered User
Bihor's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Sherbrooke
Last Seen: Today (01:25 AM)
Posts: 226
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
And when you see the sky filled with Aurora Borealis, it could be the fey gathering on special nights.
This is great stuff guys. A martial artist fey polar bear changing in Aurora Borealis. Wow
__________________
And no man shall shed blood,
but by man shall his blood be shed.
"... We can't just do everything differently now because it "make sense". -Young-And-Beautiful
-Thunt
Bihor is offline Reply With Quote
Bihor
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Bihor
Send email to Bihor
Find More Posts by Bihor
Add Bihor to Your Buddy List
Add Bihor to your ignore list
Old 04-28-06, 07:00 PM #31
dhaga
Registered User
dhaga's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicopee, MA
Last Seen: Yesterday (07:18 PM)
Posts: 31
Send a message via AIM to dhaga
I finally read through most all the posts and ideas. I am a fan of one of the earlier ideas, where the fey have a different type of power for each sign of the Zodiac. I also favor the idea of a color spray / hypnotic pattern / prismatic type of breath weapon, lending more towards Enchantment than straight out damage, due to their fey nature.
The little old men shapeshifting into polar bears (huge ones, no less) and back definitely holds appeal, but I am not sure I like the "kung fu" idea. Their demeanor, being fey, is bound to be mystical, possibly contemplative. Monk-like in a traditional sense, but not with the D&D monk flavor.
Hopefully I'll have more time to post additional thoughts later.
__________________
"You're dead. Only the cleric can talk to you now."
dhaga is offline Reply With Quote
dhaga
View Public Profile
Send a private message to dhaga
Visit dhaga's homepage!
Find More Posts by dhaga
Add dhaga to Your Buddy List
Add dhaga to your ignore list
Old 04-28-06, 08:48 PM #32
BOZ
Creature Cataloguer
BOZ's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Last Seen: Today (06:05 AM)
Posts: 15,128
Send a message via AIM to BOZ Send a message via Yahoo to BOZ
wow - there's probably a lot more information than we need here for just generating ideas. sadly, i don't have the free time to read it all and respond at the moment - hopefully over the weekend.
in order to avoid having creature #5 bounce around from idea to idea like #4 did (or worse, god forbid), we need to pick one single base idea for what this guy is about and focus on that. spend some time discussing that, and i'll pop back into this thread when i get the chance.
(and, hopefully, ENWorld will let me log in again!)
BOZ is offline Reply With Quote
BOZ
View Public Profile
Send a private message to BOZ
Send email to BOZ
Visit BOZ's homepage!
Find More Posts by BOZ
Add BOZ to Your Buddy List
Add BOZ to your ignore list
Old 04-28-06, 09:55 PM #33
Shade
Monster Junkie
Shade's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Plane of Shadow
Last Seen: Today (06:24 AM)
Posts: 6,106
The two things I consider "must have" are:
1.) Looks like a big polar bear
2.) Aurora borealis-like prismatic/rainbow pattern/dazzling etc. "breath weapon"
Shade is offline Reply With Quote
Shade
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Shade
Find More Posts by Shade
Add Shade to Your Buddy List
Add Shade to your ignore list
Old 04-28-06, 09:58 PM #34
demiurge1138
Classic Style!
demiurge1138's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: California
Last Seen: Today (09:28 AM)
Posts: 3,857
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
I agree with Shade's must-haves. The kung-fu... not so much.
Demiurge out.
demiurge1138 is offline Reply With Quote
demiurge1138
View Public Profile
Send email to demiurge1138
Find More Posts by demiurge1138
Add demiurge1138 to Your Buddy List
Add demiurge1138 to your ignore list
Old 04-28-06, 10:29 PM #35
dhaga
Registered User
dhaga's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicopee, MA
Last Seen: Yesterday (07:18 PM)
Posts: 31
Send a message via AIM to dhaga
I'm with Shade as well.
So, 1) huge polar bear -- that shapeshifts into a smaller, more manageable form? How are we on this idea? And will they have a 3rd form -- something more "fluttery" and winged, for faster travel?
2) breath weapon -- are we at the stage where we start to determine what effects the breath weapon should have? I think just about everyone agrees the colorful breath is a good idea.
dhaga is offline Reply With Quote
dhaga
View Public Profile
Send a private message to dhaga
Visit dhaga's homepage!
Find More Posts by dhaga
Add dhaga to Your Buddy List
Add dhaga to your ignore list
Old 04-29-06, 04:21 AM #36
Conaill
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Last Seen: Today (09:23 AM)
Posts: 3,142
My Wishlist
Of the real-world mythology stuff, I really like the Fir Chlis: arctic faeries dancing/fighting over their fairy queen... But to do that one right, I feel we'd have to stay true to the legends, which would mean doing away with the Huge size, for one. I'm assuming we don't want to veer that far from our original idea...
I would still vote for the zodiac creatures as my first choice, but since people seem to be coalescing around the polar bear idea, let's just go with that.
So, my must-haves:
- polar bear form
- transforms into black-skinned little old men
Must-not-have:
- kung fu
I'm not sure the Aurora Borealis effect should be a *breathweapon* per se, but I'm willing to be swayed by James' beautiful sketch.
Conaill is offline Reply With Quote
Conaill
View Public Profile
Find More Posts by Conaill
Add Conaill to Your Buddy List
Add Conaill to your ignore list
Old 04-29-06, 09:09 AM #37
James Heard
Registered User
James Heard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Last Seen: Today (01:25 PM)
Posts: 1,168
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
I guess I'm going to step up and champion my idea on a point by point basis then :
The whole huge arctic fey with some sort of "looking upwards" connection is already set in stone. The zodiac/stellar/whatever aspects of the creature in exact aspect aren't. I like the idea of the Aurora Borealis mostly because it's visually appealing instead of intellectually appealling - zodiacs are mostly visually appealling in their symbology, at least to me, and adopting the "D&D zodiac" with beholders and the like to a fey creature just seems a little iffy. Plus, since zodiacs are rather large and have many different options it sort of points at a much more complex creature or creatures than would automatically be useful to GMs. Finally, we already know that we're committed to an arctic creature and I can't think of anything more connected in my mind to skywards stuff in pop culture more than the Aurora Borealis unless we go into a more weather-related direction. This also isn't very appealling to me, because it's a little easy: if the fey is weather-related then you've got a ton of neat little options for blizzards, hail, and the whole host of weather-related fatalities already knocked out for you in a dozen creatures. That messes with the uniqueness of the possibel end-concept, which isn't a bad thing but I'm thinking something like this would be a pretty candidate for a "break the norm" sort of encounter after a few white dragons and frost giants.
Fey are "usually human-shaped" and are "creature with supernatural abilities and connections to nature or to some other force or place." Having a Huge-sized human-shaped fey out in the snow seems destined to be confused with Frost Giants though, which suggests that the Huge size isn't their human-shaped form if you don't want them to draw groans of "not giants again" from your players. As I've implied in previous posts, I think that it's important that if the Huge form isn't humanoid that it have some sort of instinctual connection with the arctic. To me that means a fairly short list of large land mammals known to hang out in the snow: polar bears, caribou (and reindeer too), wolves, walruses, wolverines, seals, foxes, and mammoths. This is most certainly not an exhaustive list, there are giant crows in Frostburn for instance, but I think it's probably a good enough list. I obviously like the polar bear idea because I like polar bears and a really really big one with magic powers is one hellava rug. I dislike the idea of making the aurora borealis connection as physical representation, because it sounds more like an elemental if you've got a thing that turns into a shimmering air thingee. I'd be open to interpretations that used another animal, though I have specific concerns about the others.
A Huge Caribou just doesn't make much of an impression on me. Maybe it's too Princess Monoke or something, it just doesn't do much for me. Wolves, as I've said, just seem a little too well worn and used already. Huge Walruses? Not very scary unless they're heading for your lap. Seals suffer from a similar problem. Wolverines might work, but they might be too wild and varmit'y for a fey. Foxes seem like we'd be headed Waaaaay into an asian interpretation of the fey. Mammoths might work fine though, if only because you could describe the biggest #$%ing elephant EVER. Mixing the heads is certainly an idea, but I think I'd prefer a polar bear head on some other sort of body. The Bear-Caribou concept might be cray enough to work. Putting walrus heads on anything still produces walrus images - because the on of the goofiest looking thing on a walrus is its head anyways. Onward to powers:
I like the breath weapon idea for this creature. Why? Because most fey have gaze attacks that I can think of off hand but having a shimmering "aurora borealis" breath of whatever effect plays upon the visual/gaze idea without falling into it. It makes the responses to it different than you'd have to work with for other sorts of fey. I'm not opposed to having a separate gaze attack of some sort (doesn't the catoblepas <sp?> have both?), but I think the other options sort of run vanilla: loading the creature up with "normal" prismatic/enchantment effects/spells of some sort. If the breath weapon is some sort of variant on Prismatic Spray you've got a ready made 7th level effect to attach to this 16-18 HD creature, which seems right in line for what we're aiming at. If the creature has a similar charm/enchantment effect then you're starting to talk about nasty domination abilities I think, which would sort of imply that there are enough allies up there in Santaland to be worth forcing your friendship on when you're a Huge possibly Polar Bear.
I also dislike the idea of allowing the creature to fly. If you want a flying polar bear then slap a template on it. A half-dragon polar bear would be nasty enough, and achieve the same rough ends. Other interpretations would have similar problems, except maybe the huge flying rainbow breath-weaponed wolverine - that sounds unique enough as a sound blurb that it could work. I know that conceptually I wouldn't want to walk into it while taking a leak behind my igloo. Flying mammoths are just too close to the flying elephants that I can't remember the name of in the Book of Exalted Deeds I think. Polar bear-headed flying caribou is sort of neat, but for some reason it just strikes me as if the visual arrangement of the figure would be similar to other creatures like the gryphon and that means it might loose its place somewhat in its distinctiveness. No matter what I said earlier, the idea of huge flying walrus fey is unspeakably bad.
Alternate forms is almost certainly necessary unless the thing hangs out in Huge form all the time. Fey eat and drink, so hanging out in Huge form in the desert wilderness of the arctic is probably a bad idea. About the only thing a Huge fey up there could be feeding on are various monsters, polar bears, walruses, things in the water big enough to make up more than a snack, and herds of seasonal lichen eaters. They could, of course, also have alternative diets or D&D diets (ie they eat adventurers that are dumb enough to wander into area 12 on the map). If they have normal diets though, an alternate form might be nice. Little old men is nice because it's a turn around from both the "fey are all hot chicks hanging out in nature" mantra and Big White Bear (animal) turns into little black humanoid is a nice contrast. Plus players get to chat with them, which they might not be inclined to do if they're just suddenly running into a Huge Polar Bear or Flying Wolverine in the middle of a snowstorm. That's nice from a GM options point of view. The fey could also simply be dumb too though, and not inclined to talk much. In that case they don't really need alternate forms. Onto the contentious kung fu:
Since they have a humanoid form, at least part of the time and in at least one proposal, then they'll be without at least one major component of their damage zone (Huge animal fey natural attacks, and other Huge sized goodness) and at least in my own mind I think that something like a polar bear with a gaseous breath weapon is sort of cool and a little old man with a gaseous breath weapon is sort of gross enough that I might not like that. Fey are supposed to be neat, not gross, most of the time, right? Anyways, so they're in this little old man form and if you don't want them to be pushovers you've got a limited range of options in the way I see things:
1. You could give them more spell-like abilities or spell-use. This might be thematically appropriate in some interpretations, but it means that the Huge fey will get REALLY nasty because it's both an enormous tank AND a spellcaster or else they'll have really different abilities (including spell-like abilities) in their different forms
2. Rage. Rage is good for bears but possibly silly for little old men. Rage actually might be too good for Huge polar bears. I'm willing to accept that it's inevitable with Huge Flying Wolverines.
3. Variations on its abilities in Huge form. Meh. I don't know why this doesn't work for me very much.
4. Other class sorts of abilities besides Monk. I still see problems with the CR if you start tacking on any significant spellcasting ability onto the thing, of any sort. Considering some of the Druid spells available I think even CL 8 might tip my opinion of the critter into CR 21+ depending on what some of the other options. Adding sneak attacks seems extraneous, as well as any sort of more fighterly options. If the alignment component were anything other than neutral I can see some sort of variation on smiting work, but I think we're stuck with Neutral.
5. Where are the other fey monks? Seriously? I'm not even talking about class levels or nunchuks and throwing stars really here (though, I admit, I succumb to radical hyperbole every so often (ok, a lot)): I'm really thinking about cherry-picking some of the more "classic" tv-movie sorts of ninja/monk/Mr. Miyagi things. Specifically the things that I mentioned earlier:
1. Trackless step: Yeah, I know it's a druid thing, but they're fey. Huge Polar Bears, Flying Wolverines, and old men who don't leave tracks is fun. It also doesn't add a lot of scary power and more "oooh" power to the beast.
2. Improved evasion: This DOES add some power to the critter, and probably won't be MUCH of a factor in Huge form, but lets the smaller form avoid damage until it can Hulk out.
3. Ethereal step: Where do enormous fey in the arctic live? Inside mountains that have no entrances. Where do they go? Anywhere they want.
4. Slow fall: I admit, I'm reaching here...but why not? It means they jump off of cliffs with ridiculous ease, or out of ...floating arctic cities or something. Mainly I imagine the shadow of the leaping Huge polar bear attack - and it is good.
5. Damage Die bump: This is where I'm thinking tricky. Even at 18 HD, the HD is only going to be D6 HD and their Base Attack is going to be on par with a Wizard (+9). This means that a lot of the tank tricks that you might assume from their size are going to be really rotten for them, even with large str and con bonuses, relative to the sorts of parties that are going to go against 18 HD creatures. However, if hits REALLY hard then the fact that it's under a goodly amount of hit points and has crappy attacks might be ignored. Characters will be compelled to stay way away from it else risk a luck 20 and ruinous damage, while still being in the range of its breath weapon.
I'm not in the warm fuzzies over 4 and 5, obviously. I just don't know how else you might go about it without hitting overkill, epic, or weirder than striking pages of inspiration from the classes section of the PHB. What else? It could spawn or summon, it could paralyze when it hits, it could poison (though poison seems weird with the arctic theme), or it could have something like horns or swallow whole or bear-freightrain-I-move-at-120-trampling or something. It could go weirder: it could knock people into another plane (DC X) when it hits them, it could level/ability drain, it could swap their genders, it could have Time Stop 3x/day and be REALLY scary. They could dance like the Scottish folklore bit, and pull a Baloo...
Appealing to the mythos surrounding the Aurora Borealis, I can see the little old men become more like dwarves and the shimmering becoming more akin to fire, and then the fey would be perfectly set up to sort of take on the Frost Giants as natural foes even more. I think it would be a little too pat for my tastes, and possibly a little close to some of the roles of other creatures from Frostburn (though I haven't looked to reference that book). I think considering swans as a possibly "arctic enough" animal might be interesting too - but again, I'm a Southern sort of guy and avoid snow at all costs myself. Unless it's been on National Geographic or Discovery Channel I have no clue if swans hang out in the deep cold or not.
Oh yes, I talk too much, especially when I've been coming back to this all day when I find the time. *sigh*
James Heard is online now Reply With Quote
James Heard
View Public Profile
Send a private message to James Heard
Find More Posts by James Heard
Add James Heard to Your Buddy List
Add James Heard to your ignore list
Old 04-29-06, 11:41 PM #38
Knight Otu
LEW Judge and PbP Mod
Knight Otu's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Germany
Last Seen: Today (02:18 PM)
Posts: 8,995
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
Aurora Borealis-like attack? Yes (not necessarily breath weapon). The prismatic spray idea is good, but maybe it also varies with the zodiacal sign.
Bear-like? Neutral on this. Yes if along with an alternate form.
Monkish? For plundering abilities, ok.
Anything I forgot?
__________________
Omygod, they killed Polly!
LEW Judge;When e-mailing me about LEW, make sure to include a LEW tag in the subject line
Semabin ai Harudan, currently involved in the quest of the Ransom for Retirement.
Ashnar, currently in the Assassin's Knot.
Knight Otu is offline Reply With Quote
Knight Otu
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Knight Otu
Send email to Knight Otu
Find More Posts by Knight Otu
Add Knight Otu to Your Buddy List
Add Knight Otu to your ignore list
Old 04-30-06, 06:00 AM #39
BOZ
Creature Cataloguer
BOZ's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Last Seen: Today (06:05 AM)
Posts: 15,128
Send a message via AIM to BOZ Send a message via Yahoo to BOZ
looks like there is a certain amount of agreement on a few things, whilst uncertainty remains on others. i'll make a more substantive post on this thread when i have had a chance to really examine it... which might not be until, say, tuesday at the rate it is growing.
seriously though, off-topic, my baby's first birthday was on friday, so i'm likely to be busy doing party stuff all day tomorrow. and my point above, may be that monday might be insufficient to catch up on reading.
BOZ is offline Reply With Quote
BOZ
View Public Profile
Send a private message to BOZ
Send email to BOZ
Visit BOZ's homepage!
Find More Posts by BOZ
Add BOZ to Your Buddy List
Add BOZ to your ignore list
Old 04-30-06, 06:03 AM #40
demiurge1138
Classic Style!
demiurge1138's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: California
Last Seen: Today (09:28 AM)
Posts: 3,857
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
Don't worry, BOZ, we can be patient. And congratulations! Tell her happy birthday for me.
Demiurge out.[/sblock][sblock=Page 2]James Heard
Registered User
James Heard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Last Seen: Today (01:25 PM)
Posts: 1,168
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
Yeah, no problem. Young kids are more fun than monsters any day of the week.
I might mention though, if the enormous flying wolverine doesn't get the cut for the fey it would make a pretty nifty monster concept anyways somewhere else. Maybe flying squirrel-ish wolverines, jumping down from snow-covered trees to eat adventurer faces off with savage snarls.
__________________
<Sig space for rent>
James Heard is online now Reply With Quote
James Heard
View Public Profile
Send a private message to James Heard
Find More Posts by James Heard
Add James Heard to Your Buddy List
Add James Heard to your ignore list
Old 04-30-06, 08:52 PM #42
Conaill
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Last Seen: Today (09:23 AM)
Posts: 3,142
My Wishlist
Don't worry, Boz. If you skip James' monster-thread, that'll cut down on half the reading already!
Just kidding... I actually do agree with the majority of that post, especially the fact that the polar bear transforming into a wizened humanoid very nicely gets around the "but why aren't these giants instead of fey?" issue. However, I still don't see any good justification for the monk aspect (let alone the kung fu!)...
Here's some more things to think about: Are we saying that this aurora effect of theirs looks like the Aurora Borealis, or that is is the Aurora Borealis? If the former, we really haven't addressed the "stellar" aspect of these fey. If the latter, I guess Aurora Borealis would marginally fit in the "stellar" category (although I'd be more likely to put it under "weather patterns"), but now we've given these fey an ability which stretches for miles and miles - at least in visibility, if perhaps not in effect.
Either way, we still haven't addressed what these fey's purpose is in life. What aspect of nature do they protect? Making them the guardians of the Earth's poles nicely gives them a very fey-like purpose in life, it enhances their "stellar" aspect, and it builds in some nice plot hooks. This is something we could easily add on top of the current "transforming polar bear fey".
__________________
Come join us in the Awakened Animals thread
Questions? Check the SRD, the online d20/D&D rules,
the Official D&D Game Rule FAQ, and Official D&D Errata.
Conaill is offline Reply With Quote
Conaill
View Public Profile
Find More Posts by Conaill
Add Conaill to Your Buddy List
Add Conaill to your ignore list
Old 04-30-06, 10:23 PM #43
demiurge1138
Classic Style!
demiurge1138's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: California
Last Seen: Today (09:28 AM)
Posts: 3,857
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
I do like the idea of guarding the poles... but why do the poles need protection? Who wants to harm them? What purpose would harming them serve? Do the illithids want to destroy the poles so that the planet will spin off into the comfortable dark void of space or something?
OK, maybe not the illithids - they're used all the time - but if we're going to establish these guys as guardians of the poles, we need to establish why they're guarding them, and possibly what from.
Demiurge out.
__________________
Villain- A Haiku by Demiurge
The heroes await.
They have come this far only
To die. Ha ha ha.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clueless
Prismatic Wall. - Because ships don't have brakes.
demiurge1138 is offline Reply With Quote
demiurge1138
View Public Profile
Send email to demiurge1138
Find More Posts by demiurge1138
Add demiurge1138 to Your Buddy List
Add demiurge1138 to your ignore list
Old 05-01-06, 02:27 AM #44
James Heard
Registered User
James Heard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Last Seen: Today (01:25 PM)
Posts: 1,168
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
I'm fond of them being Frost Giant hunters, which would also explain their enormous size.
Quote:
Are we saying that this aurora effect of theirs looks like the Aurora Borealis, or that is is the Aurora Borealis? If the former, we really haven't addressed the "stellar" aspect of these fey.
Why not? There are an awful lot of fey that are somehow attached to some aspect of the natural world that aren't actually performing that aspect literally or by being that aspect. I think there are three or so in the MMIII alone. If they were actual literal representations or originators of natural phenomena then they'd be elementals right? You could have a a fey that was geared to be attached to thunderstorms without them making storms or a fey that was attached to ponds without all ponds having one in there. Maybe they're invisible normally, except during the aurora borealis, or they lose their huge polar bear schtick during the aurora borealis, or they gain Mighty Magical Power during the aurora borealis. They don't have to be the only thing that creates the stellar effect, maybe they actually protect the earth from the aurora borealis, which are waves of prismatic nasty living spell, and they show up to eat the stuff - they not only shoot prismatic sprays, they're immune to prismatic effects of any kind or something? Maybe they're the only aspects of a larger natural aspect that once ate ALL magic, and their guardianship is to protect the world from magic (but since magic is so useful they're not very popular fuzzy bears) and they're only variety of fey of that kind left. That's sort of neat because it gives them a point of contention with every party. They'd be the manifestation of the actual purity of the planet from magical influence, and if that isn't stellar and global I don't know what is.
James Heard is online now Reply With Quote
James Heard
View Public Profile
Send a private message to James Heard
Find More Posts by James Heard
Add James Heard to Your Buddy List
Add James Heard to your ignore list
Old 05-01-06, 10:01 AM #45
Conaill
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Last Seen: Today (09:23 AM)
Posts: 3,142
My Wishlist
Ok, that's better. Now narrow it down to *one* of those ideas!
As for why the poles would need protection... that part of the story I'd gladly leave up to the DM's imagination. I can easily think of 5-6 story lines off the top of my head that would involve the PC's either trying to affect or helping protect the Earth's poles.
Last edited by Conaill : 05-01-06 at 10:11 AM.
Conaill is offline Reply With Quote
Conaill
View Public Profile
Find More Posts by Conaill
Add Conaill to Your Buddy List
Add Conaill to your ignore list
Old 05-01-06, 04:30 PM #46
BOZ
Creature Cataloguer
BOZ's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Last Seen: Today (06:05 AM)
Posts: 15,128
Send a message via AIM to BOZ Send a message via Yahoo to BOZ
yeah, we decided to go with the "guardian of the poles" pretty early on, just like we decided to go with the polar bear form early on - might as well stick with those.
__________________
don't quote me on that.
Help update the Creature Catalog!
Check out My Homepage!
Wiki wiki!
BOZ is offline Reply With Quote
BOZ
View Public Profile
Send a private message to BOZ
Send email to BOZ
Visit BOZ's homepage!
Find More Posts by BOZ
Add BOZ to Your Buddy List
Add BOZ to your ignore list
Old 05-01-06, 07:08 PM #47
Conaill
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Last Seen: Today (09:23 AM)
Posts: 3,142
My Wishlist
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Heard
[...]or they lose their huge polar bear schtick during the aurora borealis, or they gain Mighty Magical Power during the aurora borealis.
I like these two ideas best.
Or a third alternative: they actually create the Aurora Borealis using their own aurora ability, during a ritual in which a number of them participate. I can just imagine a circle of huge polar bears breathing colored light into the sky for hours...
Conaill is offline Reply With Quote
Conaill
View Public Profile
Find More Posts by Conaill
Add Conaill to Your Buddy List
Add Conaill to your ignore list
Old 05-01-06, 08:48 PM #48
BOZ
Creature Cataloguer
BOZ's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Last Seen: Today (06:05 AM)
Posts: 15,128
Send a message via AIM to BOZ Send a message via Yahoo to BOZ
OK, looked over a few things briefly (particularly where you all gave your quick "I like this, but not this" impressions), and came up with a quick sketch. We can add more on to this as needed, of course.
When we get to naming it, maybe Inuit or something else appropriate?
These things seem to be rather strongly in the consensus, and I like them myself, so we're starting at this point:
This neutral fey creature is the guardian of a world's poles, existing to keep the planet from tipping off its axis. Its natural shape is that of a huge polar bear, though instead of white fur it appears to be a star-field look (need a better way to phrase this - see Genis/Captain Marvel: http://www.avengersassemble.us/images/Genis.jpg). It has the ability to assume the form of a wizened ebony-skinned humanoid when it wishes to speak to sentient creatures.
I could see giving it a third form, like the wispy semi-transparent incorporeal flying creature that Conaill described.
I think giving them a breath weapon or something like it (ray, beam?), which is bright colorful and dazzling like the aurora borealis is a great idea. Rather than be just another thing like the prismatic spells, however, I like where we were going with the varying zodiac powers. I say the attack has one of 12 different effects based on time of year.
If I missed any cool stuff that people were talking about, I'm sorry: I haven't had the time yet to fully read this thread and I just skimmed to find stuff that I found appealing. Never fear, I will read the whole thing as time becomes available.
One idea I had was that - well, much of what fairykind does makes little sense to us humans. If you, an adventurer, met something that said it was guarding the North Pole to keep the world from tipping, you'd probably shrug and move on with your life. I could always go the angle of it *claims* to be guarding the poles, and its real purpose is enigmatic.
One thing I feel I need to say, and this goes for everyone. for those of you who have come up with totally cool ideas, which I don't get excited over or simply do not work for the concept we are going with (both on this thread and its predecessors), this does not mean the ideas are bad or can't work with some other creature. You can always give them to something else, whether you are submitting to a game company or just keeping it for your own use.
Why am I the person who is running these things? Is it because I'm in charge of the Creature Catalog site, or one of the moderators of ENWorld? Or am I just some awesome monster-guy or insane creative genius? Heck no. I'm just the guy who's doing it. You can, too. Whoever puts the work into something is the one who gets it done. Dragon takes submissions from basically anyone, and I'm no more special than any of you. I didn't want to use your idea? Use it yourself then, you might just have success with it.
BOZ is offline Reply With Quote
BOZ
View Public Profile
Send a private message to BOZ
Send email to BOZ
Visit BOZ's homepage!
Find More Posts by BOZ
Add BOZ to Your Buddy List
Add BOZ to your ignore list
Old 05-01-06, 08:58 PM #49
Knight Otu
LEW Judge and PbP Mod
Knight Otu's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Germany
Last Seen: Yesterday (12:33 AM)
Posts: 8,992
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOZ
http://www.avengersassemble.us/images/Genis.jpg)
Careful with the parentheses, BOZmaster.
This polar-bear-like creature seemingly has bright white fur, but a closer look reveals that it is instead dotted with motes of light, much like tiny stars in the night sky.
__________________
Omygod, they killed Polly!
LEW Judge;When e-mailing me about LEW, make sure to include a LEW tag in the subject line
Semabin ai Harudan, currently involved in the quest of the Ransom for Retirement.
Ashnar, currently in the Assassin's Knot.
Knight Otu is offline Reply With Quote
Knight Otu
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Knight Otu
Send email to Knight Otu
Find More Posts by Knight Otu
Add Knight Otu to Your Buddy List
Add Knight Otu to your ignore list
Old 05-01-06, 09:22 PM #50
BOZ
Creature Cataloguer
BOZ's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Last Seen: Today (06:05 AM)
Posts: 15,128
Send a message via AIM to BOZ Send a message via Yahoo to BOZ
actually, i think it would just be a field of black, shaped like a polar bear, dotted with stars. or it could switch between that and just looking like a perfectly normal polar bear.
BOZ is offline Reply With Quote
BOZ
View Public Profile
Send a private message to BOZ
Send email to BOZ
Visit BOZ's homepage!
Find More Posts by BOZ
Add BOZ to Your Buddy List
Add BOZ to your ignore list
Old 05-01-06, 10:04 PM #51
Conaill
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Last Seen: Today (09:23 AM)
Posts: 3,142
My Wishlist
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOZ
though instead of white fur it appears to be a star-field look
Wait... where did that come from?
I would strongly prefer a snow-white polar bear, transforming into a black-skinned old man, as James originally suggested, for all the good reasons he mentioned on the previous page. The color contrast adds some really nice flavor, plus the white polar bear allows it to blen dinto its environment (both in terms of camouflage, as well as being able to pass for an ordinary polar bear from a large distance). Not sure a pitchblack polar bear would even be recognized as a polar bear - it'd just be a huge, bulky quadruped monster. We did mention "eyes like stars" a few times, and I think that would work great on the humanoid form - maybe the bear form as well.
Also, I don't think there's any reason to add the zodiac aspect back in as well. I think that might make for too much of a mish-mash of ideas. A shapeshifting polar bear linked to the Aurora Borealis and the Earth's poles seems plenty.
Conaill is offline Reply With Quote
Conaill
View Public Profile
Find More Posts by Conaill
Add Conaill to Your Buddy List
Add Conaill to your ignore list
Old 05-01-06, 10:31 PM #52
James Heard
Registered User
James Heard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Last Seen: Today (01:25 PM)
Posts: 1,168
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boz
actually, i think it would just be a field of black, shaped like a polar bear, dotted with stars. or it could switch between that and just looking like a perfectly normal polar bear.
Maybe that would justify some sort of weird connection with the Plane of Shadow? The Astral plane? Maybe our polar bear fey aren't really guarding the poles per say, but where they kicked the Shadar Kai (sp?) out of the world (and protect the artifacts that might bring them back?).... Or maybe they've got some menacing confrontation going on with etherguants or any of the other uncommon monsters from MM2 & MM3?
Last edited by James Heard : 05-01-06 at 10:37 PM.
James Heard is online now Reply With Quote
James Heard
View Public Profile
Send a private message to James Heard
Find More Posts by James Heard
Add James Heard to Your Buddy List
Add James Heard to your ignore list
Old 05-02-06, 02:39 AM #53
demiurge1138
Classic Style!
demiurge1138's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: California
Last Seen: Today (09:28 AM)
Posts: 3,857
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
I say let the little black old man be dotted with (and have eyes of) pinpoints of white starlight. The polar bear form is white, but its eyes and mouth open up into the black void of night.
Demiurge out.
demiurge1138 is offline Reply With Quote
demiurge1138
View Public Profile
Send email to demiurge1138
Find More Posts by demiurge1138
Add demiurge1138 to Your Buddy List
Add demiurge1138 to your ignore list
Old 05-02-06, 05:51 PM #54
BOZ
Creature Cataloguer
BOZ's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Last Seen: Today (06:05 AM)
Posts: 15,128
Send a message via AIM to BOZ Send a message via Yahoo to BOZ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conaill
Wait... where did that come from?
my imagination. i've always thought the star-field look was cool, used largely by Marvel comics characters to make them look more "cosmic". i thought of it immediately when i first read James' line "How about some sort of fey star-polar bears? Maybe fey that shift into scary polar bears?", but i didn't mention it before. it would be a purely visual effect, and i want to use it. i don't care if that makes it look unnatural, but i can see why having a normal polar bear appearance is useful. so, whether the star-field look is its natural form, or if the polar bear's look can alternate between white fur and the spacey void, or if we give it to the little man form's skin or clothing as demiurge suggests, i want it to be in there somewhere, just because i want it and for no other good reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Heard
Maybe that would justify some sort of weird connection with the Plane of Shadow? The Astral plane? Maybe our polar bear fey aren't really guarding the poles per say, but where they kicked the Shadar Kai (sp?) out of the world (and protect the artifacts that might bring them back?).... Or maybe they've got some menacing confrontation going on with etherguants or any of the other uncommon monsters from MM2 & MM3?
hmm, no on the planar connection - i want this boy to be purely terrestrial (although his head is definitely in the clouds; he's keenly aware that there is "something out there").
however, other conflicts (i like the shadar-kai better) seem like they make more sense.
utlimately, i like the idea of a tricksy tricksy fey - sure, it claims to be out there guarding the polls, whatever that means, but this is just a diversion from whatever its real purpose is. and i'd like to leave that one up to the DM. also, it keeps us from having to limit them to a single specific purpose.
BOZ is offline Reply With Quote
BOZ
View Public Profile
Send a private message to BOZ
Send email to BOZ
Visit BOZ's homepage!
Find More Posts by BOZ
Add BOZ to Your Buddy List
Add BOZ to your ignore list
Old 05-02-06, 08:33 PM #55
James Heard
Registered User
James Heard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Last Seen: Today (01:25 PM)
Posts: 1,168
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
Maybe the breath weapon looks like scintillating colors, but it's really sucking anyone caught in the effect into the bear's maw which can fit things in there that seem unreasonable (bonus on normal swallow whole size rules) and cause energy drain damage each turn while swallowed? And then it can expel whatever's left as some sort of spawn? Something like fey Shadows or somesuch, pitch black forms made of the stuff of space and stars? Maybe their alternate "old men" forms ARE Shadar Kai, except exceptionally old material plane resident Shadar Kai, stuck someplace in between their old lives and the rest of their race, hanging out in the polar regions because one side of them is always fighting on the Plane of Shadows and the other has to chase down Shadar Kai that are continually infiltrating through their weakening of the planar barriers during the winter months - and fighting Shadar Kai in the arctic is easier and safer for the rest of the world than anyplace else?
James Heard is online now Reply With Quote
James Heard
View Public Profile
Send a private message to James Heard
Find More Posts by James Heard
Add James Heard to Your Buddy List
Add James Heard to your ignore list
Old 05-03-06, 11:50 PM #56
dhaga
Registered User
dhaga's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicopee, MA
Last Seen: Yesterday (07:18 PM)
Posts: 31
Send a message via AIM to dhaga
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conaill
Also, I don't think there's any reason to add the zodiac aspect back in as well. I think that might make for too much of a mish-mash of ideas. A shapeshifting polar bear linked to the Aurora Borealis and the Earth's poles seems plenty.
We have fallen a bit far from the zodiac aspects (except in mentioning their influence within the breath weapon). Are there going to be multiple types of fey created via this thread? Or are we focusing solely on the polar bear types? I agree with Conaill -- do we want to try and pack in zodiac aspects as well...or leave those for a separate type of fey, who have connections to these huge bears, but are not specifically them?
__________________
"You're dead. Only the cleric can talk to you now."
Last edited by dhaga : 05-03-06 at 11:54 PM.
dhaga is offline Reply With Quote
dhaga
View Public Profile
Send a private message to dhaga
Visit dhaga's homepage!
Find More Posts by dhaga
Add dhaga to Your Buddy List
Add dhaga to your ignore list
Old 05-04-06, 09:00 AM #57
BOZ
Creature Cataloguer
BOZ's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Last Seen: Today (06:05 AM)
Posts: 15,128
Send a message via AIM to BOZ Send a message via Yahoo to BOZ
Dhaga, we are only working on the concept for a single creature.
OK, I gave some consideration to the star-field appearance. First of all, polar bears are, what, 12-15 feet long? Well, the Huge size category *starts* at 16 feet, so this guy is going to be noticeably larger than a regular polar bear anyway. Therefore, I'm not all that concerned with how well they carry off that camouflage. That, and there is always the option of allowing them to switch off between a star-field/void appearance, and a regular white furred bear appearance. Or the "big semi-amorphous star beast" form suggested by demiurge on the first page.
That said, it would probably be easier and simpler to have the star-field look reflected in the ebony gnomish form. Unless a few of you out there like my original concept, I may as well go with that.
Another thing. Our concept, originally, was not specifically a zodiac creature. It was that of a stellar spirit, which means it could have something to do with any of the sun, moon, planets, stars, and/or zodiac. So, we are not limited to the zodiac concept.
I finally found the time to go back and read the whole thread, starting on page 2 (to catch the more recent ideas), then going back to page 1 (to make sure I didn't miss anything good). Rather than post to every point I found, since there are so many, I decided to respond to only the parts I felt were most important.
I think the breath weapon/ray/gaze/area effect/whatever attack can have 12 effects, one for each month, or it can have one for each season perhaps. We hardly need to decide that now, anyway, as that's getting much too specific for the proposal (though I would like to decide what form the attack takes - a gaze is definitely different in effect from a breath weapon). I think the attack should be usable in both forms, to allay concerns that the little man form is totally defenseless. The effect, whatever form it takes, is definitely going to have a prismy-look to it.
If you want to connect it to the actual Aurora Borealis itself, how would we accomplish that? First of all, what creates the phenomenon - since it's a natural occurrence, I'm not sure I want to tie its appearance solely to our fey. If the aurora borealis instead affects them rather than being affected by the fey, do we want it to take away the polar bear form, or grant them extra power or both or what? Having them converge when it occurs naturally is a fine idea. A fascination or hypnosis effect caused by the aurora might be cool, but it might be too much if they already have a bunch of other powers.
Given one aurora myth that Conaill posted, the fey could be serving as guardians to the paths of the death, as the aurora lights the way there. Just a possibility. Maybe the lights are the spirits of dead fey instead, since they often revolve around both faeries and the dead, and that would combine the concepts. That would give these guys the purpose we've been seeking. Let me know if you like this.
We can discuss ditching the aurora aspect for a weather-related aspect instead. I'm open to suggestions there, since I'm certainly not married to the aurora borealis idea at all (even though I did suggest it in the first post).
Giving them spell-like abilities makes perfect sense, as this sort of thing is a staple fey standard. Something like trackless step, and/or improved evasion would be a nice addition. So would a trample attack.
Do we want them to have a third form, like the wispy semi-transparent incorporeal flying creature that Conaill described?
The base idea revised:
This neutral fey creature claims to be the guardian of the world's poles, though its true purpose remains a mystery to all but itself.
Its natural form is that of an oversized polar bear, with eyes and mouth that seem to open up into the black void of night.
It has the ability to assume the form of a wizened gnome-sized humanoid when it wishes to speak to sentient creatures. This form's skin appears to be ebony, dotted with pinpoints of white starlight like a cosmic field of stars.
BOZ is offline Reply With Quote
BOZ
View Public Profile
Send a private message to BOZ
Send email to BOZ
Visit BOZ's homepage!
Find More Posts by BOZ
Add BOZ to Your Buddy List
Add BOZ to your ignore list
Old 05-04-06, 04:07 PM #58
demiurge1138
Classic Style!
demiurge1138's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: California
Last Seen: Today (09:28 AM)
Posts: 3,857
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
The "base idea revised" looks good to me.
Demiurge out.
demiurge1138 is offline Reply With Quote
demiurge1138
View Public Profile
Send email to demiurge1138
Find More Posts by demiurge1138
Add demiurge1138 to Your Buddy List
Add demiurge1138 to your ignore list
Old 05-04-06, 06:03 PM #59
Conaill
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Last Seen: Today (09:23 AM)
Posts: 3,142
My Wishlist
Yup, sounds good. We just need another line or two about its powers and we're pretty much done. (Or at least done enough for a one-paragraph submission.)
Conaill is offline Reply With Quote
Conaill
View Public Profile
Find More Posts by Conaill
Add Conaill to Your Buddy List
Add Conaill to your ignore list
Old 05-04-06, 06:33 PM #60
BOZ
Creature Cataloguer
BOZ's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Last Seen: Today (06:05 AM)
Posts: 15,128
Send a message via AIM to BOZ Send a message via Yahoo to BOZ
that's what i figure. any input on the rest of my post, then?
i don't think we need any more new ideas at this point, unless something seriously trumps what we already have, or neatly fills in gaps. let's work with what has already been proposed to finish up our idea.
Last edited by BOZ : 05-04-06 at 06:38 PM.
BOZ is offline Reply With Quote
BOZ
View Public Profile
Send a private message to BOZ
Send email to BOZ
Visit BOZ's homepage!
Find More Posts by BOZ
Add BOZ to Your Buddy List
Add BOZ to your ignore list
Old 05-04-06, 08:00 PM #61
James Heard
Registered User
James Heard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Last Seen: Today (01:25 PM)
Posts: 1,168
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOZ
OK, I gave some consideration to the star-field appearance. First of all, polar bears are, what, 12-15 feet long? Well, the Huge size category *starts* at 16 feet, so this guy is going to be noticeably larger than a regular polar bear anyway. Therefore, I'm not all that concerned with how well they carry off that camouflage. That, and there is always the option of allowing them to switch off between a star-field/void appearance, and a regular white furred bear appearance. Or the "big semi-amorphous star beast" form suggested by demiurge on the first page.
I was pretty much going on the assumption that the Huge Polar bear was going to be about twice the size of a normal bear. Yogi on steroids. Still, white on white at a distance camouflages anything really. I think the big issue is which form is their primary form, because that's the form that's going to pop up under True Seeing and TS should be pretty normal at the CRs that this thing is operating at. There could also be three forms: A regular-sized polar bear, a huge starfield intangible polar bear-shaped spooky thing, and the little humanoid dude. That one would make them "just another bear" more or less, giving the GM an opportunity to engage in some rattling. "You set up camp. Roll a Spot check. 35? Well John, for you it looks as if one of the polar bears is scribbling in a notebook."
Quote:
I think the breath weapon/ray/gaze/area effect/whatever attack can have 12 effects, one for each month, or it can have one for each season perhaps. We hardly need to decide that now, anyway, as that's getting much too specific for the proposal (though I would like to decide what form the attack takes - a gaze is definitely different in effect from a breath weapon). I think the attack should be usable in both forms, to allay concerns that the little man form is totally defenseless. The effect, whatever form it takes, is definitely going to have a prismy-look to it.
I don't like the 12 effects thing, because if nothing else that would be something I'd have to determine and plan ahead for as a GM, unless the effect were determined by a die roll once the Save was failed. Seasonal changes really makes there be 12 monsters with similar forms, because what group is ever going to be fighting these things all the time? Maybe if the HD were dropped and the attack were based on age-categories (that WOULD allow for them to be used throughout some lucky adventurer's career like dragons) then that would be ok, I think it would be annoying otherwise though.
Quote:
Given one aurora myth that Conaill posted, the fey could be serving as guardians to the paths of the death, as the aurora lights the way there. Just a possibility. Maybe the lights are the spirits of dead fey instead, since they often revolve around both faeries and the dead, and that would combine the concepts. That would give these guys the purpose we've been seeking. Let me know if you like this.
I think it would be really cool to make them aurora borealis polar bear necromancers, but I'm a little afraid of knocking them into Epic by accident. Given that my preference is for them to be naturally bears and probably not going to be a long conversation with the players most of the time, but an enigmatic encounter or three where players end up with a half-dozen wrong explanations for what they're all about, I think that a death thing would be really neat. It also explains their Neutral alignment, rather than a Good variation.
Quote:
We can discuss ditching the aurora aspect for a weather-related aspect instead. I'm open to suggestions there, since I'm certainly not married to the aurora borealis idea at all (even though I did suggest it in the first post).
Are there weather-related necromancy spells in Frostburn or LM? That might be interesting. I'll have to check.
Quote:
Do we want them to have a third form, like the wispy semi-transparent incorporeal flying creature that Conaill described?
I like the star field incorporeal death bear form pretty well. But then again, I like the idea of flying wolverines too.
James Heard is online now Reply With Quote
James Heard
View Public Profile
Send a private message to James Heard
Find More Posts by James Heard
Add James Heard to Your Buddy List
Add James Heard to your ignore list
Old 05-04-06, 09:26 PM #62
Shade
Monster Junkie
Shade's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Plane of Shadow
Last Seen: Today (06:24 AM)
Posts: 6,106
I like the "basic idea revised" as well.
As for the other points:
* I prefer breath weapon to gaze attack. Something about the bear opening its mouth to release the colors just seems to fit better.
* Third form: Cool, but probably unnecessary.
* Is the aurora borealis made manifest: No. Associated with the aurora borealis. Sure. Guardian to pathway to dead via a.b. Nifty.
__________________
"Chuck Norris does not sleep. He waits."
"If you can see Chuck Norris, he can see you. If you can't see Chuck Norris you may be only seconds away from death."
Random Chuck Norris Facts
- Shade
Shade is offline Reply With Quote
Shade
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Shade
Find More Posts by Shade
Add Shade to Your Buddy List
Add Shade to your ignore list
Old 05-04-06, 10:09 PM #63
James Heard
Registered User
James Heard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Last Seen: Today (01:25 PM)
Posts: 1,168
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shade
I like the "basic idea revised" as well.
As for the other points:
* I prefer breath weapon to gaze attack. Something about the bear opening its mouth to release the colors just seems to fit better.
* Third form: Cool, but probably unnecessary.
* Is the aurora borealis made manifest: No. Associated with the aurora borealis. Sure. Guardian to pathway to dead via a.b. Nifty.
* I prefer the breath weapon too, especially since the whole "bear that's full of star-stuff and releasing it" thing seems weirdly appropriate.
* Maybe it's another attack. Something REALLY nasty that it can't do all the time, or a spell I can't think of as a SLA, something like that?
* Polar bear fey necromancers probably even beats out kung fu fey polar bears.
James Heard is online now Reply With Quote
James Heard
View Public Profile
Send a private message to James Heard
Find More Posts by James Heard
Add James Heard to Your Buddy List
Add James Heard to your ignore list
Old Yesterday, 12:58 AM #64
Conaill
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Last Seen: Today (09:23 AM)
Posts: 3,142
My Wishlist
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Heard
I was pretty much going on the assumption that the Huge Polar bear was going to be about twice the size of a normal bear. Yogi on steroids. Still, white on white at a distance camouflages anything really.
Not to mention that on a snow covered landscape without any other scale references nearby, it gets *really* hard to judge size at a distance. You could probably come within a couple hundred feet of this guy before you notice he's too friggin bloody huge for a normal polar bear.
Quote:
I don't like the 12 effects thing, because if nothing else that would be something I'd have to determine and plan ahead for as a GM, unless the effect were determined by a die roll once the Save was failed. Seasonal changes really makes there be 12 monsters with similar forms, because what group is ever going to be fighting these things all the time?
Ditto. I still think this is a good idea for a "zodiac monster". But I wouldn't want to tack this onto our already somewhat complicated creature.
* Definitely breath weapon over gaze attack. Although it doesn't have to be your regular "if it touches you, you take damage". Maybe even a ward that they spin using their breath?
* Third form: nah - two forms is complicated enough
* Connection to the Aurora Borealis: I still like the idea that a group of these can actually create the Aurora using their "breath". What the purpose of this is, I dunno. Pathway for the dead possibly interferes with wathever other death mythology your game world has, athough restricting it specifically to dead *fey* may be a good way around this.
Last edited by Conaill : Yesterday at 01:03 AM.
Conaill is offline Reply With Quote
Conaill
View Public Profile
Find More Posts by Conaill
Add Conaill to Your Buddy List
Add Conaill to your ignore list
Old Yesterday, 01:31 AM #65
demiurge1138
Classic Style!
demiurge1138's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: California
Last Seen: Today (09:28 AM)
Posts: 3,857
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
I've always been for the breath weapon over the gaze attack. And three forms seems too complicated. Guardian of the path of dead fey, though... I like the sound of that.
Demiurge out.
demiurge1138 is offline Reply With Quote
demiurge1138
View Public Profile
Send email to demiurge1138
Find More Posts by demiurge1138
Add demiurge1138 to Your Buddy List
Add demiurge1138 to your ignore list
Old Yesterday, 06:42 PM #66
Conaill
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Last Seen: Today (09:23 AM)
Posts: 3,142
My Wishlist
I was looking through the mythology posts some more, trying to see what else would fit with out current concept...
Quote:
The whistling crackling noise which sometimes accompanies the aurora is the voices of these spirits trying to communicate with the people of the Earth. They should always be answered in a whispering voice. Youths dance to the aurora. The heavenly spirits are called selamiut, "sky-dwellers," those who live in the sky.
Even today in the north, children are told not to whistle or sing to the northern lights. "The lights will come and take you away. They are not to be trusted." Many of the Inuit carvings display the Aurora Borealis as decapitating heads of unsuspecting people.
A lot of elderly people living in the north of Sweden can remember as children being told to act nice and silent when there were auroras in the sky. To misbehave at that time was very serious.
In both Scandinavia and North America some people believe that you can call the aurora by whistling, but to do so can be dangerous.
There are a lot of stories describing how dangerous the aurora could be. There is a story about a young man from Norway, who despite his big brother's warnings, was killed by the aurora because he was teasing it.
What if instead of guarding a pathway for the dead, our fey can open some sort of gateway, through which one can communicate with the dead? The dead may be able to reach out and manifest. Maybe this is one of the main powers of the fey: they can call upon the ghosts of the dead to do their bidding.
In this scenario, one or multiple fey would eactually create the Aurora Borealis with their breath (a gradual process - multiple fey may be able to call it into being instanteneously, but one lone fey might take a long time, or could only call minor ghosts at first). Once the Aurora is established, they can get information from the ghosts on the Other Side, or call ghosts down from the Aurora to fight for them. Mortals may also be able to catch the attention of the ghosts by whistling at the aurora, but doing so may bring the wrath of angry ghosts upon them.
Used as a breath weapon, the Aurora Breath would cause a combination of a strong Fear effect, Deathwatch, plus some form of necromantic damage (Enervation, Harm, Ray or Waves of Exhaustion, Energy Drain).
Conaill is offline Reply With Quote
Conaill
View Public Profile
Find More Posts by Conaill
Add Conaill to Your Buddy List
Add Conaill to your ignore list
Old Today, 05:13 AM #67
BOZ
Creature Cataloguer
BOZ's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Last Seen: Today (06:05 AM)
Posts: 15,128
Send a message via AIM to BOZ Send a message via Yahoo to BOZ
I apologize for having been so quiet the last few days - i've been stupid-style busy at work lately.
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Heard
"Still, white on white at a distance camouflages anything really.
"Mommy, do you like my picture?"
"I don't see a picture. That page is just white."
"No, mommy, that's a polar bear in a snowstorm!"
We can just take the oversized bear as its natural form, I think. It becomes a sort of "reverse-spriggan" that way - its alternate form is smaller and weaker than its natural form.
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Heard
There could also be three forms: A regular-sized polar bear, a huge starfield intangible polar bear-shaped spooky thing, and the little humanoid dude.
If we go with that, I'd make starbear its natural form. though I would probably want to drop incorporeality, as that really complicates things.
As for the form of attack, there seems to be more agreement on breath weapon that I thought there was. so, that is fine with me, and that's what we'll have. One idea I thought of today was the oft-overlooked breath weapon of an iron (?) golem, which breathes a cloud that lingers for 1 round. Just a thought. Conaill's got some ideas for that, it seems.
One direction that occurred to me that I really want to pursue is that they have a connection specifically to the spirits of dead fey, and I think most of you are with me on that. Perhaps the aurora is the pathway, or the signal to spirits of how to get to the afterlife, and the starbears are the guardians/guides. Not quite sure.
We can drop the 12-different effects on the breath weapon, if that seems impractical. We can tie the effect into some other celestial occurrence, or just have it be more simple. But it would help to decide just what it does. Yes, it could breath out vapors that become A.B., but that would have to constitute and attack somehow to qualify as a weapon. If they want to use A.B. or something else to communicate with or summon the dead, I think it should be something separate from the breath weapon (though, I could see it working in conjunction, possibly).
Not too sure if I like them using the spirits to do their bidding though - if our bears are to be more monkish in attitude, I think they would be more concerned with helping souls reach their destination than with keeping them involved with the mortal plane.
BOZ is offline Reply With Quote
BOZ
View Public Profile
Send a private message to BOZ
Send email to BOZ
Visit BOZ's homepage!
Find More Posts by BOZ
Add BOZ to Your Buddy List
Add BOZ to your ignore list
Old Today, 05:46 AM #68
James Heard
Registered User
James Heard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Last Seen: Today (01:25 PM)
Posts: 1,168
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
Quote:
Not too sure if I like them using the spirits to do their bidding though - if our bears are to be more monkish in attitude, I think they would be more concerned with helping souls reach their destination than with keeping them involved with the mortal plane.
So maybe they're necromancers, but the arcane sort of 'suck your souls + energy drain' necromancers. That also draws a map for the "star field bear" a little, without going into intangibility: We could give them a SLA of mirror-image x/day where it explains the description as altering the appearance, or adding another effect to the normal spell (maybe some sort of immunity or improved SR/Spell reflection). So they'd have some abilities that would allow them to dust undead easier, punk out people with energy draining/etc necromancy sans cleric crunch, huge sized polar bear form, smaller but still nasty old gnome form, and some sort of colorful yet lethal breath weapon.
I think I might make it absolutely immune to spells from the necromancy school just to be mean. I don't think it's out of line with the HD, especially if they're not going to show up as Organization: Band 10-100 I like to think that the suggestion of 10 or more 16-18 HD anything would be a cause for major amounts of alarm for just about anyone without Thor's hammer tucked in their belt loop as a souvenier?[/sblock]
[sblock=Page 1]BOZ
Creature Cataloguer
BOZ's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Last Seen: Today (06:05 AM)
Posts: 15,128
Send a message via AIM to BOZ Send a message via Yahoo to BOZ
Project - Creatures-By-Poll: Fey #5
OK, time to start working on the particulars for next fey, given the guidelines i laid out here: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=161281
Hit Dice: 16-18
Alignment: Neutral
Main Attribute: Stellar spirit - sun, moon, planets, stars, zodiac
Environment: Arctic
Size: Huge
Aurora Borealis anyone?
One idea posted previously (I didn't see any others):
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conaill
Hm... huge neutral arctic "stellar" fey... maybe they're guarding the earth's poles? Wouldn't want anyone to tip the globe off it's axis, right?
__________________
don't quote me on that.
Help update the Creature Catalog!
Check out My Homepage!
Wiki wiki!
BOZ is offline Reply With Quote
BOZ
View Public Profile
Send a private message to BOZ
Send email to BOZ
Visit BOZ's homepage!
Find More Posts by BOZ
Add BOZ to Your Buddy List
Add BOZ to your ignore list
Old 04-26-06, 02:34 AM #2
James Heard
Registered User
James Heard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Last Seen: Today (01:25 PM)
Posts: 1,168
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
I've got absolutely no clue about the etiquette or anything for these. I've read some of the other polls and just can't figure it out other than to just plop down a couple of ideas.
How about some sort of fey star-polar bears? Maybe fey that shift into scary polar bears? They normally roam around in huge polar bear form, but they turn into black-skinned little old men carrying staves when they're just asking you to get away from their poles and even larger, scarier polar bear sorts of things when they've stopped asking and proceeded into telling. I dunno how you would exactly work the whole sky/stellar thing into there specifically, maybe they always show up in groups of three or twelve? No particular reasoning on that, but what the hell. I think any polar bear that turned into 12 polar bears would be frightening
Or maybe they're just huge butterfly sorts of fey, that live in arctic caves, glow in the dark, shapechange into reasonably normal looking fey for ease of use in a campaign, and fly out occasionally in giant butterfly form to perform their rituals that create a facsimile of the aurora borealis?
__________________
<Sig space for rent>
James Heard is online now Reply With Quote
James Heard
View Public Profile
Send a private message to James Heard
Find More Posts by James Heard
Add James Heard to Your Buddy List
Add James Heard to your ignore list
Old 04-26-06, 02:54 AM #3
BOZ
Creature Cataloguer
BOZ's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Last Seen: Today (06:05 AM)
Posts: 15,128
Send a message via AIM to BOZ Send a message via Yahoo to BOZ
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Heard
I've got absolutely no clue about the etiquette or anything for these. I've read some of the other polls and just can't figure it out other than to just plop down a couple of ideas.
that's all i'm lookin' for.
BOZ is offline Reply With Quote
BOZ
View Public Profile
Send a private message to BOZ
Send email to BOZ
Visit BOZ's homepage!
Find More Posts by BOZ
Add BOZ to Your Buddy List
Add BOZ to your ignore list
Old 04-26-06, 02:56 AM #4
Conaill
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Last Seen: Today (09:23 AM)
Posts: 3,142
My Wishlist
Here's another suggestion I had on the other thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conaill
Hmm... a huge zodiac creature...
During a clear new moon, it is said that the astrological creatures of the zodiac descend upon the plains arctic to dance the dance of ages.
Since many of the animals corresponding to signs of the zodiac already have stats in D&D, you could even make this one a template. Call it "Avatar of the Zodiac" or something: take the base animal (e.g. Lion), enlarge it to size Huge and color it pitch black, with stars as eyes. A bit rough, but you get the idea...
Alternatively, you could design a base creature, and have a table with 1-2 additional abilities for each different sign. Would be much easier to balance that way...
__________________
Come join us in the Awakened Animals thread
Questions? Check the SRD, the online d20/D&D rules,
the Official D&D Game Rule FAQ, and Official D&D Errata.
Conaill is offline Reply With Quote
Conaill
View Public Profile
Find More Posts by Conaill
Add Conaill to Your Buddy List
Add Conaill to your ignore list
Old 04-26-06, 03:04 AM #5
BOZ
Creature Cataloguer
BOZ's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Last Seen: Today (06:05 AM)
Posts: 15,128
Send a message via AIM to BOZ Send a message via Yahoo to BOZ
hmm, i didn't notice that one. was there more than one thread?
BOZ is offline Reply With Quote
BOZ
View Public Profile
Send a private message to BOZ
Send email to BOZ
Visit BOZ's homepage!
Find More Posts by BOZ
Add BOZ to Your Buddy List
Add BOZ to your ignore list
Old 04-26-06, 03:39 AM #6
demiurge1138
Classic Style!
demiurge1138's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: California
Last Seen: Today (09:28 AM)
Posts: 3,857
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
I like the idea of a base creature with a different ability based on each sign of the zodiac. To really push for it to get into Dragon, we could suggest that we use the D&D zodiac that got released a couple of months ago. Either works, but I think that the submission might get a little edge if it has a tie-in to a previous article.
Also, I like the idea of them having the alternate form of a little wizened man with pitch-black skin and eyes like stars. When threatened, it could shift into its big semi-amorphous star beast (or whatever) form.
Demiurge out.
__________________
Villain- A Haiku by Demiurge
The heroes await.
They have come this far only
To die. Ha ha ha.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clueless
Prismatic Wall. - Because ships don't have brakes.
demiurge1138 is offline Reply With Quote
demiurge1138
View Public Profile
Send email to demiurge1138
Find More Posts by demiurge1138
Add demiurge1138 to Your Buddy List
Add demiurge1138 to your ignore list
Old 04-26-06, 03:37 PM #7
Shade
Monster Junkie
Shade's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Plane of Shadow
Last Seen: Today (06:24 AM)
Posts: 6,106
As a huge fan of polar bears, I second that motion.
I'm a non-fan of the D&D zodiac. I prefer the classic zodiac.
__________________
"Chuck Norris does not sleep. He waits."
"If you can see Chuck Norris, he can see you. If you can't see Chuck Norris you may be only seconds away from death."
Random Chuck Norris Facts
- Shade
Shade is offline Reply With Quote
Shade
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Shade
Find More Posts by Shade
Add Shade to Your Buddy List
Add Shade to your ignore list
Old 04-26-06, 07:05 PM #8
Conaill
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Last Seen: Today (09:23 AM)
Posts: 3,142
My Wishlist
What was the D&D zodiac like? If it was all D&D specific, non-mythological creatures, I would prefer the original one...
Conaill is offline Reply With Quote
Conaill
View Public Profile
Find More Posts by Conaill
Add Conaill to Your Buddy List
Add Conaill to your ignore list
Old 04-26-06, 07:17 PM #9
Conaill
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Last Seen: Today (09:23 AM)
Posts: 3,142
My Wishlist
Quote:
Originally Posted by demiurge1138
I like the idea of a base creature with a different ability based on each sign of the zodiac.
The other option is to make it a very high-level template instead?
You'd have to worry about synergistic interactions between the original creature's abilities and those granted by the template - even if the original creature is relatively weak.
Either way, whether we do a template or a base creature with a few additional powers, it would make it very easy for people to adapt to their own favorite zodiac.
Conaill is offline Reply With Quote
Conaill
View Public Profile
Find More Posts by Conaill
Add Conaill to Your Buddy List
Add Conaill to your ignore list
Old 04-26-06, 07:17 PM #10
Shade
Monster Junkie
Shade's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Plane of Shadow
Last Seen: Today (06:24 AM)
Posts: 6,106
I forget most of it, but I think it included a dragon and a beholder. Definitely not classical/mythological.
Shade is offline Reply With Quote
Shade
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Shade
Find More Posts by Shade
Add Shade to Your Buddy List
Add Shade to your ignore list
Old 04-26-06, 07:20 PM #11
James Heard
Registered User
James Heard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Last Seen: Today (01:25 PM)
Posts: 1,168
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
All I know about the D&D Zodiac is that I've already completely forgotten everything about it. If there is going to be a tie-in I think it would be better off going in a different direction - like attached the fey to a specific D&D god or something. Celestian's fey? Cyndor? Sehanine? If you could time those with a god article you'd be set.
James Heard is online now Reply With Quote
James Heard
View Public Profile
Send a private message to James Heard
Find More Posts by James Heard
Add James Heard to Your Buddy List
Add James Heard to your ignore list
Old 04-26-06, 07:50 PM #12
Conaill
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Last Seen: Today (09:23 AM)
Posts: 3,142
My Wishlist
If we're going with a zodiac... the more i think about, the more I'm convinced that doing a base "zodiac creature" plus some extra abilities per star sign is the right way to go.
That way, we could even have three tables with the western, eastern and D&D zodiacs. We get the tie-in *and* usefulness for everyone, regardless of what setting/zodiac they're using.
For example, the Dragon would get the base package, plus a breathweapon. The Rooster would get maybe a piercing sonic attack? The beholder might lose all physical attacks except for a bite, and gain an antimagic ray plus maybe one other. The Ram would gain some sort of devastating Slam / Awesome Blow attack. The Virgin might get some kind of Enchantment ability, etc...
Conaill is offline Reply With Quote
Conaill
View Public Profile
Find More Posts by Conaill
Add Conaill to Your Buddy List
Add Conaill to your ignore list
Old 04-26-06, 08:45 PM #13
Shade
Monster Junkie
Shade's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Plane of Shadow
Last Seen: Today (06:24 AM)
Posts: 6,106
BOZ is having login troubles again, so he asked me to post this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOZ
The zodiac template thing is getting a bit complicated. Plus, it doesn't seem to fit in well with our arctic theme, unless roosters walk around in the snow.
I do like the idea of a guardian in a polar bear like form. I'd take that as its natural form though, and it takes on another form (say, James's little man with pitch-black skin) when it wants to relate to humanoids.
If we want to go all zodiacky with it, we could give it 12 different powers, say, each only usable only at the appropriate time of the year. We could go with either the traditional zodiac, or even the one given in Dragon a few months ago (which might be easier in some ways). I'm neutral on which zodiac is better.
Shade is offline Reply With Quote
Shade
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Shade
Find More Posts by Shade
Add Shade to Your Buddy List
Add Shade to your ignore list
Old 04-26-06, 09:43 PM #14
James Heard
Registered User
James Heard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Last Seen: Today (01:25 PM)
Posts: 1,168
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
Maybe instead of lots of different powers the thing could have a breath weapon attack - ,maybe based on the prismatic series of effects, to work with the whole aurora borealis theme? It's not that I'm against the whole zodiac thing, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense with the arctic habitat and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense as a fey to me either. Zodiac creatures sound like outsiders, or maybe scary evil aberrations.
Gigantic polar bears with breath weapons though? That shapechange? That might be a fey, if you sold it right in the description. The problem with an arctic "fey as in naturalistic and nature" thing is that there aren't an awful lot of critters up there. Making them shapechange into Caribou-sorts might work, but walruses would probably just make players giggle unless their opening tactic was Power Word: TPK. Likewise, huge penguins make me think of that batman movie and everything else is either in the water, some sort of rodent or flighted bird, or a wolf I think. Wolves would be ok, except wolves are already pretty overused as a theme.
Oh, I guess they could also shapechange into wolverines. I don't think they're really arctic (I'm from Florida, what do I know?), but if you had huge-sized intelligent wolverine-fey I bet no one would bitch about it too much unless they were some sort of ice-cousteau biologist.
What sort of target CR are we talking about anyways? That's the other problem I have with zodiac creatures - that seems to me to be some sort of CR17+ minimum creature and I was thinking more along the whole CR9-15ish sweet spot, so that if you added class levels to your fey they wouldn't go epic for a while?
Maybe the whole zodiac thing could tie in with the arctic fey, but be a series of creatures additional to them? You know, "there's these pitch black fey that live in the snow, and they normally walk around in animal form making sure that people don't ever think about going further north than their masters say so and they kill you with sky and star magic. Their masters, in turn, live at the poles - sort of- where they exist as unique representations of the nighttime stars and their avatars." Forget Santa, it's Hollywood, stars live in the north pole...or something like that?
I think kung fu star magic polar bear fey sounds pretty nifty too. They could live in bleak monastaries in the snow. "I learned polar bear kung fu style." Some player would love that, somewhere. Now I've talked myself into wanting a Coke.
James Heard is online now Reply With Quote
James Heard
View Public Profile
Send a private message to James Heard
Find More Posts by James Heard
Add James Heard to Your Buddy List
Add James Heard to your ignore list
Old 04-26-06, 10:56 PM #15
Shade
Monster Junkie
Shade's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Plane of Shadow
Last Seen: Today (06:24 AM)
Posts: 6,106
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Heard
Maybe instead of lots of different powers the thing could have a breath weapon attack - ,maybe based on the prismatic series of effects, to work with the whole aurora borealis theme? It's not that I'm against the whole zodiac thing, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense with the arctic habitat and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense as a fey to me either. Zodiac creatures sound like outsiders, or maybe scary evil aberrations.
Oooh...I like this idea. Alot!
Shade is offline Reply With Quote
Shade
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Shade
Find More Posts by Shade
Add Shade to Your Buddy List
Add Shade to your ignore list
Old 04-26-06, 11:20 PM #16
Conaill
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Last Seen: Today (09:23 AM)
Posts: 3,142
My Wishlist
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOZ
The zodiac template thing is getting a bit complicated. Plus, it doesn't seem to fit in well with our arctic theme, unless roosters walk around in the snow.
Maybe each zodiac creature can normally only appear on earth directly underneath the segment of the sky in which its sign appears. So the only place they could all congregate (not to mention move at a mortal speed ) would be directly underneath the North Star or its South Pole equivalent.
Problem solved.
(Plus I do still like the "guardians of the earth's poles" idea... that could be incorporated as well.)
Conaill is offline Reply With Quote
Conaill
View Public Profile
Find More Posts by Conaill
Add Conaill to Your Buddy List
Add Conaill to your ignore list
Old 04-27-06, 12:28 AM #17
BOZ
Creature Cataloguer
BOZ's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Last Seen: Today (06:05 AM)
Posts: 15,128
Send a message via AIM to BOZ Send a message via Yahoo to BOZ
nah, i dislike the template idea - going to have to veto it.
BOZ is offline Reply With Quote
BOZ
View Public Profile
Send a private message to BOZ
Send email to BOZ
Visit BOZ's homepage!
Find More Posts by BOZ
Add BOZ to Your Buddy List
Add BOZ to your ignore list
Old 04-27-06, 01:27 AM #18
James Heard
Registered User
James Heard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Last Seen: Today (01:25 PM)
Posts: 1,168
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
Another idea: Make the whole zodiac creatures the FOES of the kung fu star magic polar bear fey, and make them the outsider/aberrations thingees and that gives the fey a reason that they're "protecting" all that precious snow and ice: they're protecting the world from nastiness that intrudes upon the poles, and waa-lah a possibly useful plot hook is born. Going to the absolutely not precisely proposed zodiac monsters that are not fey, I'd be inclined to group their relevant signs together a bit to cut down on the amount of creatures and just plop those nasty heads on some sort of appropriately icky body by some sort of elemental or otherwise arrangement (like in the normal Western zodiac they have water signs and fire signs etc). So you'd have 4 monstrous sorts with three heads each that the kung fu star magic polar bear fey fight in the snow, flying around tossing pretty-color breath weapons at the bad guys and using their scary polar bear routine to break boards while they use their little old man routine to sip tea and trade for nunchakus and such.
Or maybe I just need to stop stream-o'consciousness posting...These are some really awful sentence structures I'm dishing out today.
James Heard is online now Reply With Quote
James Heard
View Public Profile
Send a private message to James Heard
Find More Posts by James Heard
Add James Heard to Your Buddy List
Add James Heard to your ignore list
Old 04-27-06, 01:29 AM #19
Conaill
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Last Seen: Today (09:23 AM)
Posts: 3,142
My Wishlist
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOZ
nah, i dislike the template idea - going to have to veto it.
Just to clarify - I've tossed around two *separate* ideas here. One of which was to do it as a template, and I agree that one is no good. Templates are just way too messy: they involve too much calculation, and they're too hard to get the CR right (and balanced, depending on what base creature you start with).
In contrast, the original idea was to make a "vanilla" zodiac creature, to which you would add one special ability to match each of the individual star signs. Very different from the template approach. Most of the article would be dedicated to outlining the basic creature - stat block and all - and each variant could be described in only a few words, eg "Dragon: 20d6 breath weapon, cone of fire or cold", or "Virgin: Charm Monster, 5/day", or "Sagittarius: +5 longbow, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot and Manyshot". Kinda like vanilla ice cream with different toppings, to continue the analogy.
You should be able to run these straight off the page, as it were. Instead of needing to spend half an hour with a notepad to figure out what a templated creature will look like, stat-wise...
Last edited by Conaill : 04-27-06 at 02:01 AM.
Conaill is offline Reply With Quote
Conaill
View Public Profile
Find More Posts by Conaill
Add Conaill to Your Buddy List
Add Conaill to your ignore list
Old 04-27-06, 01:37 AM #20
demiurge1138
Classic Style!
demiurge1138's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: California
Last Seen: Today (09:28 AM)
Posts: 3,857
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
I'm pretty sure that BOZ has nixed the template, but the zodiac coat over the generic star-bear is still a possibility. And I'm not entirely sure it's one I'm terribly fond of, personally. If we give it a lot of options, it becomes some work for the DM to make it usable in his game. We want our monsters to be as utilizable as possible, right? The sidebar-of-zodiac-possibilities is flavorful, but potentially clunky. I'm not outright saying I don't like it, but I'm a bit leery.
As for the connection to the aurora borealis, if we were going to choose that, how would we model it? Prismatic spray? A breath weapon of half fire and half electricity (which is probably the best D&D way of modeling superhot ions)? Some hypnotic pattern-like ability? A combination of the above?
Demiurge out.
demiurge1138 is offline Reply With Quote
demiurge1138
View Public Profile
Send email to demiurge1138
Find More Posts by demiurge1138
Add demiurge1138 to Your Buddy List
Add demiurge1138 to your ignore list
Old 04-27-06, 02:24 AM #21
James Heard
Registered User
James Heard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Last Seen: Today (01:25 PM)
Posts: 1,168
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
Quote:
As for the connection to the aurora borealis, if we were going to choose that, how would we model it? Prismatic spray? A breath weapon of half fire and half electricity (which is probably the best D&D way of modeling superhot ions)? Some hypnotic pattern-like ability? A combination of the above?
Personally I'd make it modelled directly after prismatic spray, because it's cool, dangerous, and making it a breath weapon doesn't really make it much more complex. If it's something else, like any sort of combination of damage, then you'd probably end up tagging it with some other effect anyways to make it more interesting because if these suckers pop up as an encounter you want the players cued off immediately, and straight damage might confuse some players as to the true nature of the things. Prismatic spray breath doesn't ring any automatic "I've heard of that" bells in my skull, while "damaging breath weapon" from the polar bears sort of makes me think of templates. The hypnotic pattern ability also makes a lot of sense, as would any sort of charm effect. I think something like that might be interesting for their alternate forms though, assuming they ditch the breath weapon when they turn into old men. Maybe their eyes in humanoid form have a gaze attack that helps them persuade people to trade with them. Another good spell effect to slap down on top of either side of the equation might be confusion. I suppose it really depends on how powerful you want the things to be.
If we go with kung fu magic polar bears you'd probably naturally want to give them a hodge podge of classic ninja/monk abilities. Trackless step, improved evasion, ethereal step, slow fall, and bumping up their assumed damage die class for their size seems fairly appropriate. Add in the breath weapon of any sort, assume the huge size is for Polar Bears, and you've already got a pretty vicious little critter. Add in a spell like ability list of one or two tricks using some of the new spells from Frostburn and you've got something crazy.
James Heard is online now Reply With Quote
James Heard
View Public Profile
Send a private message to James Heard
Find More Posts by James Heard
Add James Heard to Your Buddy List
Add James Heard to your ignore list
Old 04-27-06, 03:20 AM #22
Conaill
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Last Seen: Today (09:23 AM)
Posts: 3,142
My Wishlist
I think some sort of fascination/hypnosis/illusion would fit better for the Aurora. Would fit better with them being *fey* as well (compared to a breath weapon...).
Alternatively, this could also be some form of art for these guys (they are Neutral after all... they don't have to be aggressive). Or maybe it's a side effect of some mighty magics or battle?
Anyone know any good legends ripe for plundering, regarding te Aurora Borealis? I'd love it if we could steal something from, say, real Inuit folk tales or mythology...
PS: Not terribly fond of the kung-fu angle
Conaill is offline Reply With Quote
Conaill
View Public Profile
Find More Posts by Conaill
Add Conaill to Your Buddy List
Add Conaill to your ignore list
Old 04-27-06, 03:57 AM #23
Conaill
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Last Seen: Today (09:23 AM)
Posts: 3,142
My Wishlist
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conaill
Anyone know any good legends ripe for plundering, regarding te Aurora Borealis? I'd love it if we could steal something from, say, real Inuit folk tales or mythology...
Aah... Google to the rescue! Here's a few extracts (sorry for the length!):
Legends and Folklore of the Northern Lights
Quote:
The ends of the land and sea are bounded by an immense abyss, over which a narrow and dangerous pathway leads to the heavenly regions. The sky is a great dome of hard material arched over the Earth. There is a hole in it through which the spirits pass to the true heavens. Only the spirits of those who have died a voluntary or violent death, and the raven, have been over this pathway. The spirits who live there light torches to guide the feet of new arrivals. This is the light of the aurora. They can be seen there feasting and playing football with a walrus skull.
The whistling crackling noise which sometimes accompanies the aurora is the voices of these spirits trying to communicate with the people of the Earth. They should always be answered in a whispering voice. Youths dance to the aurora. The heavenly spirits are called selamiut, "sky-dwellers," those who live in the sky.
Most Eskimo groups have a myth of the northern lights as the spirits of the dead playing ball with a walrus head or skull. The Eskimos of Nunivak Island had the opposite idea, of walrus spirits playing with a human skull.
The Makah Indians of Washington State thought the lights were fires in the Far North, over which a tribe of dwarfs, half the length of a canoe paddle and so strong they caught whales with their hands, boiled blubber.
The Mandan of North Dakota explained the northern lights as fires over which the great medicine men and warriors of northern nations simmered their dead enemies in enormous pots. The Menominee Indians of Wisconsin regarded the lights as torches used by great, friendly giants in the north, to spear fish at night.
Aurora Borealis
Quote:
The Finns believed them magical "fire foxes" that lit up the sky with sparks that flew from their glistening fur.
The people of the Hebrides knew them as "nimble men" shining fairies playing joyfully.
Even today in the north, children are told not to whistle or sing to the northern lights. "The lights will come and take you away. They are not to be trusted." Many of the Inuit carvings display the Aurora Borealis as decapitating heads of unsuspecting people.
Aurora Borealis II
Quote:
The Finnish name for the northern lights "revontulet" is associated with the arctic fox. According to a folk tale, an arctic fox is running far in the north and touching the mountains with its fur, so that sparks fly off into the sky as the northern lights. Another version of the story says the fox throws the northern lights up into the sky by sweeping snow upwards with its tail. A more developed version then explains how moonlight is reflected from the snowflakes swept up into the sky by the fox's tail.
Aurora Borealis
Quote:
In the direction of the north wind live the manabai'wok (giants), of whom we have heard our old people tell. The manabai'wok are out friends, but we do not see them anymore. They are great hunters and fishermen, and whenever they are out with their torches to spear fish we know it, because then the sky is bright over the place where they are.
Aurora Borealis
Quote:
In Scotland, the lights were often called Merry Dancers or Nimble Men. One prevalent story concerns the Fir Chlis, which also means "nimble man" in Scots Gaelic, who would take part in a fight between two clans whose chieftains vied for the affections of a fairy woman. The red sky beneath the celestial battlefield was sometimes called the an linne fhuil which in English means the "pool of blood" Sometimes the blood of the warriors slain in battle would fall from the heavens and land as stones, called the fuil siochare or fairy blood. According to folklore, these stones could then often used in various spells or charms.
There are many stories in Scotland which concern the Fir Chlis. One of these tells of a young boy who went out fishing. His boat is taken adrift, and being as it is night he falls asleep. When he awakens he looks about and sees several giants dancing around a huge bonfire. They are still in the distance, and so when he takes a closer look he realizes that they are not dancing but rather engaged in a fierce battle with each other. Looking down in to the water, the terrified boy realizes that the water is not water at all but rather an ocean of blood and is drifting toward the giants. Gripped with fear, he collapses back into the boat and awakens the next morning. To his amazement he finds that he is safely returned to the shore near his village, however, both he and his boat are covered with blood. He also finds that the experience has endowed him with the second sight.
The movements of the Merry Dancers were also watched by the fishermen of the Shetland. If the lights moved too quickly, the weather would be bad, but if they moved in slow graceful motions the omen was considered favorable.
The Merry Men, anciently written as "merrie men," was used as a frequent term in early songs and ballads of Northern England. Sometimes the aurora borealis in these verses was related to the a kind of cloth which contained party-colored stripes and sometimes streaks of gold and silver.
Wikipedia Aurora (astronomy)
Quote:
In Scotland, the northern lights were known as "the merry dancers" or na fir-chlis. There are many old sayings about them, including the Scottish Gaelic proverb "When the merry dancers play, they are like to slay." The playfulness of the merry dancers was supposed to end occasionally in quite a serious fight, and next morning when children saw patches of red lichen on the stones, they say amongst themselves that "the merry dancers bled each other last night".
Conaill is offline Reply With Quote
Conaill
View Public Profile
Find More Posts by Conaill
Add Conaill to Your Buddy List
Add Conaill to your ignore list
Old 04-27-06, 04:29 AM #24
James Heard
Registered User
James Heard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Last Seen: Today (01:25 PM)
Posts: 1,168
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
Quote:
PS: Not terribly fond of the kung-fu angle
Meh. All I know is that there aren't many fey in the first place, and as far as I can think of this would be the first ninja fey kung fu bears ever. Plus, even if everyone just goes wide-eyed and mutters WTF under their breath it's freakin' memorable.
Quote:
Alternatively, this could also be some form of art for these guys (they are Neutral after all... they don't have to be aggressive). Or maybe it's a side effect of some mighty magics or battle?
That's more of what I was thinking, that the breath weapon was a representation of their "pretty colors" fey nature than anything else. It's visual, and visual attacks (death gazes, charming gazes, hypnosis, etc) all seem to be pretty par for the course with fey. Of course, so does flying but I'm resistant to the idea of slapping wings on a polar bear or a caribou or a wolverine (and unspeakably appalled by the idea of a flying walrus- enough so that it also is horrifically appealing too, go figure).
Quote:
Anyone know any good legends ripe for plundering, regarding te Aurora Borealis? I'd love it if we could steal something from, say, real Inuit folk tales or mythology...
Beliefs In Ancient Times
Quote:
One other possibility was that the sun threw its beams high in the sky although the sun itself was located beneath the edge of the earth plate.
A third possibility was that glaciers could absorb so much power that they began to shine.
One of the ancient Swedish names for aurora is sillblixt (herring flash). The name comes from people who thought that the aurora was a reflection of large herring shoals in the ocean. This is preserved in documents from Närke and different parts of Norway.
From Närke comes yet another explanation, the aurora was believed to arise from the Laplanders' torches when they were looking for their reindeer in the mountains.
In Småland some people believed that the swans had a competition about flying furthest to the north. Those who got furthest froze in the sky. The aurora arises when the swans try to come loose by flapping their wings.
The Finnish name for aurora is revontulet, fox fires. According to the legend there were fire foxes in Lapland and the auroras were sparks given off by their fur as they ran in the mountains.
The natives, for example Indians and Laplanders, who live in the aurora zones today think that the aurora is something to be respected. This opinion is still active in our century. A lot of elderly people living in the north of Sweden can remember as children being told to act nice and silent when there were auroras in the sky. To misbehave at that time was very serious.
In both Scandinavia and North America some people believe that you can call the aurora by whistling, but to do so can be dangerous.
There are a lot of stories describing how dangerous the aurora could be. There is a story about a young man from Norway, who despite his big brother's warnings, was killed by the aurora because he was teasing it.
Some people would not let their children outside to play while there were auroras, since they could get killed. Others thought it was all right as long as the children had hats on, so that the aurora would not burn their hair off.
A lot of people thought that auroras, especially the red ones, foretold bad times, such as plague, war or great fires. The reddish auroras often made people believe that a city close by was on fire and they rushed there only to find that it was not the case. It is easy to see how people who were not used to auroras could mistake them for fires, especially since most of the houses were made of wood and easily caught fire.
For the Laplanders, as for other people in northern Europe, Asia and America, the aurora was a place for the dead. Above all it were people who had died a violent or too early death who came to live in the aurora. It could be people who were murdered, killed in war, took their own life, died in child birth or unborn children.
In some areas the spirits of the dead seemed to have quite a good time in the aurora. The Inuits in Greenland and northern Canada thought that the spirits were playing soccer with a walrus skull. Their name for the aurora is aqsalijaat, the trail of those who play soccer. From Baffin Island it is told that the walrus skull found it all so amusing that it clattered its jaws. Those who looked at their ancestors' games had to look out so they did not get their heads knocked off by the skull.
The Laplanders thought that auroras and the weather were connected. When the aurora was flaming high in the sky the weather would be warm. By the magic influence of the aurora they thought it was possible to also influence the weather. This could be done in many different ways. In Kvikkjokk they called out a chant which started "gokseth (aurora) lipi, lipi". Lipi is short for lihphuit that means flutter. From Vilhelmina it is told that you could make the aurora flutter by waving a white sheet.
All people did not think that a fluttering aurora meant warm weather, some thought that it was getting cold and others that there was a storm coming. Most people believed that a fluttering aurora meant a change in the weather though.
Viking Answer Lady Says:
Quote:
The Old Norse word for the aurora borealis is norðrljós, "northern lights". The first occurrence of the term norðrljós is in the book Konungs Skuggsjá (The King's Mirror, known in Latin as Speculum Regalae), written in 1250 AD, after the end of the Viking Age (the Viking Age dates ca. 800-1100AD), describing the Northern Lights as seen by settlers in Greenland:
"But as to that matter which you have often inquired about, what those lights can be which the Greenlanders call the northern lights, I have no clear knowledge. I have often met men who have spent a long time in Greenland, but they do not seem to know definitely what those lights are. However, it is true of that subject as of many others of which we have no sure knowledge, that thoughtful men will form opinions and conjectures about it and will make such guesses as seem reasonable and likely to be true. But these northern lights have this peculiar nature, that the darker the night is, the brighter they seem; and they always appear at night but never by day, most frequently in the densest darkness and rarely by moonlight. In appearance they resemble a vast flame of fire viewed from a great distance. It also looks as if sharp points were shot from this flame up into the sky; these are of uneven height and in constant motion, now one, now another darting highest; and the light appears to blaze like a living flame. While these rays are at their highest and brightest, they give forth so much light that people out of doors can easily find their way about and can even go hunting, if need be. Where people sit in houses that have windows, it is so light inside that all within the room can see each other's faces. The light is very changeable. Sometimes it appears to grow dim, as if a black smoke or a dark fog were blown up among the rays; and then it looks very much as if the light were overcome by this smoke and about to be quenched. But as soon as the smoke begins to grow thinner, the light begins to brighten again; and it happens at times that people think they see large sparks shooting out of it as from glowing iron which has just been taken from the forge. But as night declines and day approaches, the light begins to fade; and when daylight appears, it seems to vanish entirely.
The men who have thought about and discussed these lights have guessed at three sources, one of which, it seems, ought to be the true one. Some hold that fire circles about the ocean and all the bodies of water that stream about on the outer sides of the globe; and since Greenland lies on the outermost edge of the earth to the north, they think it possible that these lights shine forth from the fires that encircle the outer ocean. Others have suggested that during the hours of night, when the sun's course is beneath the earth, an occasional gleam of its light may shoot up into the sky; for they insist that Greenland lies so far out on the earth's edge that the curved surface which shuts out the sunlight must be less prominent there. But there are still others who believe (and it seems to me not unlikely) that the frost and the glaciers have become so powerful there that they are able to radiate forth these flames. I know nothing further that has been conjectured on this subject, only these three theories that I have presented; as to their correctness I do not decide, though the last mentioned looks quite plausible to me."
There appears to be no substantiation for a connection between the god Ullr and the aurorae. People seem to have made a leap from the etymology of the god's name, which is connected with roots meaning "glory, shining", to the idea of the Northern Lights.
Similarly, there is the claim in Bullfinch's Mythology that the armor of the Valkyries "sheds a strange flickering light, which flashes up over the northern skies" making the aurora. Once again, there is nothing mentioned in the Old Norse literature that substatiates this assertion, and it can only be taken as either a fanciful interpretation, or perhaps an accretion from later folklore that arose after the end of the Viking Age.
A third misunderstanding about the Vikings and the Northern Lights is that the colorful auroral archways were identified as the Bifröst Bridge, which was a trembling and fiery path that fallen warriors could travel to Valhalla. In Gylfaginning ch. 13, a part of Snorri Sturluson's Prose Edda, we are clearly told that this bridge is in fact the rainbow:
Er þér eigi sagt það að guðin gerðu brú til himins af jörðu, og heitir Bifröst? Hana muntu séð hafa. Kann vera að það kallir þú regnboga. Hún er með þrem litum og mjög sterk og ger með list og kunnáttu meiri en aðrir smíðir.
Have you never been told that the gods built a bridge from earth to heaven called Bifröst? (Quivering Roadway) You will have seen it, (but) maybe you call it the rainbow. It has three colors and is very strong, and made with more skill and cunning than other structures.
Aurora Borealis: Mythology
Quote:
Inuits have all kinds of beliefs about the aurora. They believe that aurora are formed when the souls of the dead play football with the skull of the walrus. Another belief is that the aurora are souls of their unborn children or torches of their ancestors. They also think that if you look at the aurora too much, you will go crazy.
In Siberia and Japan some tribes believe that if a child is conceived under the aurora sky, the offspring will have a long and happy life. Aurora will also help in the delivery.
In Finland people had a belief a long time ago that the aurora are formed when a fire-fox flings the snow with its tail so that the sparks fly up to the sky and form shapes of the aurora. That's why Northern lights (English), Aurora Borealis ("Latin"), norrsken (Swedish), Polarlicht (German) are called "revontulet" ("Fox's fire") in Finland.
Another Finnish belief is that aurora formed a burning river that connected the worlds of the living and the dead. There is a very similar belief in Norway but they believed that it was a burning bridge, not a river, which connected the Earth and the Heavens. In Norway some people also believed that the aurora were dancing women.
Norwegians believed also that bad weather could be predicted from aurora. And the Inuits on the other hand believed that it was a sign of good weather. Some people think even today that the aurora are dangerous, so they arm themselves. Vikings had a perception that if there was occurrence of the aurora it would mean that a war was coming.
In Canada people think that if you whistle the aurora will come closer but if their come too close they will take you.
The Lakota pantheon
Quote:
Waziya (Blower-From-Snow-Pines) The north wind, bringer of winter and, thus, also a patron of famine and disease. He guards the dancing sky (the aurora borealis), and is constantly in conflict with Okaga and with the Wakinyan. He has special control over ice and snow.
The Celtic Pantheon
Quote:
ARIANRHOD
(Welsh) "Silver Wheel", "High Fruitful Mother", "Star Goddess", Sky Goddess; Virgin Goddess of reincarnation; Full Moon Goddess. Her palace was called Caer Arianrhod (Aurora Borealis) Keeper of the circling Silver Wheel of Stars; a symbol of time or karma. This wheel was also know as the Oar Wheel, a ship which carried dead warriors to the Moon land (Emania). Mother of Lleu Llaw Gyffes and Dylan by her brother Gwydion. Her original consort was Nwyvre (Sky or Firmament). Mother aspect of the Triple Goddess in Wales. Honored at the Full Moon. Beauty, fertility, reincarnation.
Arianrhod's name means 'silver circle'. This major Welsh Goddess is the Goddess of reincarnation, the Wheel of the Year, the full moon, fertility, an da primal figure of female power. Some Celtic scholars believe her story represents the shift from woman-centered clans to patriarchal power.
Her heavenly star/island, Caer Arianrhod in the Corona Borealis, is believed in some Welsh traditions to be the place where dead souls go to await reincarnation. There she lives with her female attendants presiding over the fates of the departed.
She is sometimes depicted as a weaver, which links her to lost creation myths and to magickal practice, sometimes called 'weaving a spell'.
Arianrhod mated freely with whomever she chose and was not questioned until the magician Math claimed she had conceived two children that she had not borne. By jumping a staff she gave birth to Llew and Dylan. Dylan left immediately to go to the sea. Arianrhod denied the remaining son, Llew, the right to bear a name or arms, as was a Welsh mother's right to bestow. She was later tricked into bestowing both.
She married her brother Gwyddion, and she is the daughter of the great Welsh Goddess, Don.
Arianrhod can be invoked to help females find their own feminine power. She can also assist you with spirit contact, sex and fertility magick, and past-life knowledge. Because her myths are linked with jumping the broom, an event which is part of Pagan marriage, she can be called upon to bless Handfasting rites.
Abenaki Indian mythology
Quote:
Wassan-mon-ganeehla-ak - a race of people who play games with a ball of light, causing the Aurora Borealis
James Heard is online now Reply With Quote
James Heard
View Public Profile
Send a private message to James Heard
Find More Posts by James Heard
Add James Heard to Your Buddy List
Add James Heard to your ignore list
Old 04-27-06, 05:32 AM #25
demiurge1138
Classic Style!
demiurge1138's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: California
Last Seen: Today (09:28 AM)
Posts: 3,857
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
I like the idea of walrus-heads as much as polar bears. Walrus-headed polar bears? Juggling heads? Maybe it throws spectral heads that burst in rainbow patterns?
OK, maybe that's a bit silly.
Demiurge out.
demiurge1138 is offline Reply With Quote
demiurge1138
View Public Profile
Send email to demiurge1138
Find More Posts by demiurge1138
Add demiurge1138 to Your Buddy List
Add demiurge1138 to your ignore list
Old 04-27-06, 07:02 AM #26
James Heard
Registered User
James Heard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Last Seen: Today (01:25 PM)
Posts: 1,168
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
I whipped up an inspirational sketch of rainbow breath weapon polar bear...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg kungfupolarbear-wip.jpg (113.3 KB, 6 views)
Last edited by James Heard : 04-27-06 at 07:27 AM.
James Heard is online now Reply With Quote
James Heard
View Public Profile
Send a private message to James Heard
Find More Posts by James Heard
Add James Heard to Your Buddy List
Add James Heard to your ignore list
Old 04-27-06, 03:46 PM #27
Shade
Monster Junkie
Shade's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Plane of Shadow
Last Seen: Today (06:24 AM)
Posts: 6,106
Wow...inspirational stuff!
Just a few things that caught my eye:
Quote:
The Laplanders thought that auroras and the weather were connected. When the aurora was flaming high in the sky the weather would be warm. By the magic influence of the aurora they thought it was possible to also influence the weather. This could be done in many different ways. In Kvikkjokk they called out a chant which started "gokseth (aurora) lipi, lipi". Lipi is short for lihphuit that means flutter. From Vilhelmina it is told that you could make the aurora flutter by waving a white sheet.
"Flutter" could be "wings" made of flickering lights...or perhaps the gossamer wings move so fast that they actually create light patterns?
Several themes concern bridging the gap between life and death, including reincarnation. Since reincarnation is generally a "natural" form of restoring life (since it is a druid-only spell), this could be an interesting angle.
I still like the idea of a "breath weapon" (whether it actually be breath or shot from its tail/eyes/etc.) that delivers prismatic spray/rainbow pattern/etc. effects.
Dancing lights, control weather, and rainbow pattern all seem good fits for SLAs.
For some reason, "shimmer bear" seems right for this guy (in another language, of course!)
Shade is offline Reply With Quote
Shade
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Shade
Find More Posts by Shade
Add Shade to Your Buddy List
Add Shade to your ignore list
Old 04-27-06, 05:24 PM #28
Conaill
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Last Seen: Today (09:23 AM)
Posts: 3,142
My Wishlist
Love the image, James!
One angle we haven't explored yet is that the Aurora Borealis could simply *be* our fey! There was some mention in the various folklore links that the Aurora may have been the inspiration for the sinuous chinese dragons.
We're designing a creature of size Huge, which is the same size as an adult red dragon, for example. So why not a whispy, semi-transparent, incorporeal flying creature?
Conaill is offline Reply With Quote
Conaill
View Public Profile
Find More Posts by Conaill
Add Conaill to Your Buddy List
Add Conaill to your ignore list
Old 04-27-06, 06:43 PM #29
Shade
Monster Junkie
Shade's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Plane of Shadow
Last Seen: Today (06:24 AM)
Posts: 6,106
That's another option, or possibly an alternate form, to explore.
Frostburn has dire polar bears which are Huge, so our beloved polar bear concept still works well.
Shade is offline Reply With Quote
Shade
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Shade
Find More Posts by Shade
Add Shade to Your Buddy List
Add Shade to your ignore list
Old 04-28-06, 03:48 AM #30
Bihor
Registered User
Bihor's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Sherbrooke
Last Seen: Today (01:25 AM)
Posts: 226
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
And when you see the sky filled with Aurora Borealis, it could be the fey gathering on special nights.
This is great stuff guys. A martial artist fey polar bear changing in Aurora Borealis. Wow
__________________
And no man shall shed blood,
but by man shall his blood be shed.
"... We can't just do everything differently now because it "make sense". -Young-And-Beautiful
-Thunt
Bihor is offline Reply With Quote
Bihor
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Bihor
Send email to Bihor
Find More Posts by Bihor
Add Bihor to Your Buddy List
Add Bihor to your ignore list
Old 04-28-06, 07:00 PM #31
dhaga
Registered User
dhaga's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicopee, MA
Last Seen: Yesterday (07:18 PM)
Posts: 31
Send a message via AIM to dhaga
I finally read through most all the posts and ideas. I am a fan of one of the earlier ideas, where the fey have a different type of power for each sign of the Zodiac. I also favor the idea of a color spray / hypnotic pattern / prismatic type of breath weapon, lending more towards Enchantment than straight out damage, due to their fey nature.
The little old men shapeshifting into polar bears (huge ones, no less) and back definitely holds appeal, but I am not sure I like the "kung fu" idea. Their demeanor, being fey, is bound to be mystical, possibly contemplative. Monk-like in a traditional sense, but not with the D&D monk flavor.
Hopefully I'll have more time to post additional thoughts later.
__________________
"You're dead. Only the cleric can talk to you now."
dhaga is offline Reply With Quote
dhaga
View Public Profile
Send a private message to dhaga
Visit dhaga's homepage!
Find More Posts by dhaga
Add dhaga to Your Buddy List
Add dhaga to your ignore list
Old 04-28-06, 08:48 PM #32
BOZ
Creature Cataloguer
BOZ's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Last Seen: Today (06:05 AM)
Posts: 15,128
Send a message via AIM to BOZ Send a message via Yahoo to BOZ
wow - there's probably a lot more information than we need here for just generating ideas. sadly, i don't have the free time to read it all and respond at the moment - hopefully over the weekend.
in order to avoid having creature #5 bounce around from idea to idea like #4 did (or worse, god forbid), we need to pick one single base idea for what this guy is about and focus on that. spend some time discussing that, and i'll pop back into this thread when i get the chance.
(and, hopefully, ENWorld will let me log in again!)
BOZ is offline Reply With Quote
BOZ
View Public Profile
Send a private message to BOZ
Send email to BOZ
Visit BOZ's homepage!
Find More Posts by BOZ
Add BOZ to Your Buddy List
Add BOZ to your ignore list
Old 04-28-06, 09:55 PM #33
Shade
Monster Junkie
Shade's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Plane of Shadow
Last Seen: Today (06:24 AM)
Posts: 6,106
The two things I consider "must have" are:
1.) Looks like a big polar bear
2.) Aurora borealis-like prismatic/rainbow pattern/dazzling etc. "breath weapon"
Shade is offline Reply With Quote
Shade
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Shade
Find More Posts by Shade
Add Shade to Your Buddy List
Add Shade to your ignore list
Old 04-28-06, 09:58 PM #34
demiurge1138
Classic Style!
demiurge1138's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: California
Last Seen: Today (09:28 AM)
Posts: 3,857
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
I agree with Shade's must-haves. The kung-fu... not so much.
Demiurge out.
demiurge1138 is offline Reply With Quote
demiurge1138
View Public Profile
Send email to demiurge1138
Find More Posts by demiurge1138
Add demiurge1138 to Your Buddy List
Add demiurge1138 to your ignore list
Old 04-28-06, 10:29 PM #35
dhaga
Registered User
dhaga's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicopee, MA
Last Seen: Yesterday (07:18 PM)
Posts: 31
Send a message via AIM to dhaga
I'm with Shade as well.
So, 1) huge polar bear -- that shapeshifts into a smaller, more manageable form? How are we on this idea? And will they have a 3rd form -- something more "fluttery" and winged, for faster travel?
2) breath weapon -- are we at the stage where we start to determine what effects the breath weapon should have? I think just about everyone agrees the colorful breath is a good idea.
dhaga is offline Reply With Quote
dhaga
View Public Profile
Send a private message to dhaga
Visit dhaga's homepage!
Find More Posts by dhaga
Add dhaga to Your Buddy List
Add dhaga to your ignore list
Old 04-29-06, 04:21 AM #36
Conaill
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Last Seen: Today (09:23 AM)
Posts: 3,142
My Wishlist
Of the real-world mythology stuff, I really like the Fir Chlis: arctic faeries dancing/fighting over their fairy queen... But to do that one right, I feel we'd have to stay true to the legends, which would mean doing away with the Huge size, for one. I'm assuming we don't want to veer that far from our original idea...
I would still vote for the zodiac creatures as my first choice, but since people seem to be coalescing around the polar bear idea, let's just go with that.
So, my must-haves:
- polar bear form
- transforms into black-skinned little old men
Must-not-have:
- kung fu
I'm not sure the Aurora Borealis effect should be a *breathweapon* per se, but I'm willing to be swayed by James' beautiful sketch.
Conaill is offline Reply With Quote
Conaill
View Public Profile
Find More Posts by Conaill
Add Conaill to Your Buddy List
Add Conaill to your ignore list
Old 04-29-06, 09:09 AM #37
James Heard
Registered User
James Heard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Last Seen: Today (01:25 PM)
Posts: 1,168
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
I guess I'm going to step up and champion my idea on a point by point basis then :
The whole huge arctic fey with some sort of "looking upwards" connection is already set in stone. The zodiac/stellar/whatever aspects of the creature in exact aspect aren't. I like the idea of the Aurora Borealis mostly because it's visually appealing instead of intellectually appealling - zodiacs are mostly visually appealling in their symbology, at least to me, and adopting the "D&D zodiac" with beholders and the like to a fey creature just seems a little iffy. Plus, since zodiacs are rather large and have many different options it sort of points at a much more complex creature or creatures than would automatically be useful to GMs. Finally, we already know that we're committed to an arctic creature and I can't think of anything more connected in my mind to skywards stuff in pop culture more than the Aurora Borealis unless we go into a more weather-related direction. This also isn't very appealling to me, because it's a little easy: if the fey is weather-related then you've got a ton of neat little options for blizzards, hail, and the whole host of weather-related fatalities already knocked out for you in a dozen creatures. That messes with the uniqueness of the possibel end-concept, which isn't a bad thing but I'm thinking something like this would be a pretty candidate for a "break the norm" sort of encounter after a few white dragons and frost giants.
Fey are "usually human-shaped" and are "creature
A Huge Caribou just doesn't make much of an impression on me. Maybe it's too Princess Monoke or something, it just doesn't do much for me. Wolves, as I've said, just seem a little too well worn and used already. Huge Walruses? Not very scary unless they're heading for your lap. Seals suffer from a similar problem. Wolverines might work, but they might be too wild and varmit'y for a fey. Foxes seem like we'd be headed Waaaaay into an asian interpretation of the fey. Mammoths might work fine though, if only because you could describe the biggest #$%ing elephant EVER. Mixing the heads is certainly an idea, but I think I'd prefer a polar bear head on some other sort of body. The Bear-Caribou concept might be cray enough to work. Putting walrus heads on anything still produces walrus images - because the on of the goofiest looking thing on a walrus is its head anyways. Onward to powers:
I like the breath weapon idea for this creature. Why? Because most fey have gaze attacks that I can think of off hand but having a shimmering "aurora borealis" breath of whatever effect plays upon the visual/gaze idea without falling into it. It makes the responses to it different than you'd have to work with for other sorts of fey. I'm not opposed to having a separate gaze attack of some sort (doesn't the catoblepas <sp?> have both?), but I think the other options sort of run vanilla: loading the creature up with "normal" prismatic/enchantment effects/spells of some sort. If the breath weapon is some sort of variant on Prismatic Spray you've got a ready made 7th level effect to attach to this 16-18 HD creature, which seems right in line for what we're aiming at. If the creature has a similar charm/enchantment effect then you're starting to talk about nasty domination abilities I think, which would sort of imply that there are enough allies up there in Santaland to be worth forcing your friendship on when you're a Huge possibly Polar Bear.
I also dislike the idea of allowing the creature to fly. If you want a flying polar bear then slap a template on it. A half-dragon polar bear would be nasty enough, and achieve the same rough ends. Other interpretations would have similar problems, except maybe the huge flying rainbow breath-weaponed wolverine - that sounds unique enough as a sound blurb that it could work. I know that conceptually I wouldn't want to walk into it while taking a leak behind my igloo. Flying mammoths are just too close to the flying elephants that I can't remember the name of in the Book of Exalted Deeds I think. Polar bear-headed flying caribou is sort of neat, but for some reason it just strikes me as if the visual arrangement of the figure would be similar to other creatures like the gryphon and that means it might loose its place somewhat in its distinctiveness. No matter what I said earlier, the idea of huge flying walrus fey is unspeakably bad.
Alternate forms is almost certainly necessary unless the thing hangs out in Huge form all the time. Fey eat and drink, so hanging out in Huge form in the desert wilderness of the arctic is probably a bad idea. About the only thing a Huge fey up there could be feeding on are various monsters, polar bears, walruses, things in the water big enough to make up more than a snack, and herds of seasonal lichen eaters. They could, of course, also have alternative diets or D&D diets (ie they eat adventurers that are dumb enough to wander into area 12 on the map). If they have normal diets though, an alternate form might be nice. Little old men is nice because it's a turn around from both the "fey are all hot chicks hanging out in nature" mantra and Big White Bear (animal) turns into little black humanoid is a nice contrast. Plus players get to chat with them, which they might not be inclined to do if they're just suddenly running into a Huge Polar Bear or Flying Wolverine in the middle of a snowstorm. That's nice from a GM options point of view. The fey could also simply be dumb too though, and not inclined to talk much. In that case they don't really need alternate forms. Onto the contentious kung fu:
Since they have a humanoid form, at least part of the time and in at least one proposal, then they'll be without at least one major component of their damage zone (Huge animal fey natural attacks, and other Huge sized goodness) and at least in my own mind I think that something like a polar bear with a gaseous breath weapon is sort of cool and a little old man with a gaseous breath weapon is sort of gross enough that I might not like that. Fey are supposed to be neat, not gross, most of the time, right? Anyways, so they're in this little old man form and if you don't want them to be pushovers you've got a limited range of options in the way I see things:
1. You could give them more spell-like abilities or spell-use. This might be thematically appropriate in some interpretations, but it means that the Huge fey will get REALLY nasty because it's both an enormous tank AND a spellcaster or else they'll have really different abilities (including spell-like abilities) in their different forms
2. Rage. Rage is good for bears but possibly silly for little old men. Rage actually might be too good for Huge polar bears. I'm willing to accept that it's inevitable with Huge Flying Wolverines.
3. Variations on its abilities in Huge form. Meh. I don't know why this doesn't work for me very much.
4. Other class sorts of abilities besides Monk. I still see problems with the CR if you start tacking on any significant spellcasting ability onto the thing, of any sort. Considering some of the Druid spells available I think even CL 8 might tip my opinion of the critter into CR 21+ depending on what some of the other options. Adding sneak attacks seems extraneous, as well as any sort of more fighterly options. If the alignment component were anything other than neutral I can see some sort of variation on smiting work, but I think we're stuck with Neutral.
5. Where are the other fey monks? Seriously? I'm not even talking about class levels or nunchuks and throwing stars really here (though, I admit, I succumb to radical hyperbole every so often (ok, a lot)): I'm really thinking about cherry-picking some of the more "classic" tv-movie sorts of ninja/monk/Mr. Miyagi things. Specifically the things that I mentioned earlier:
1. Trackless step: Yeah, I know it's a druid thing, but they're fey. Huge Polar Bears, Flying Wolverines, and old men who don't leave tracks is fun. It also doesn't add a lot of scary power and more "oooh" power to the beast.
2. Improved evasion: This DOES add some power to the critter, and probably won't be MUCH of a factor in Huge form, but lets the smaller form avoid damage until it can Hulk out.
3. Ethereal step: Where do enormous fey in the arctic live? Inside mountains that have no entrances. Where do they go? Anywhere they want.
4. Slow fall: I admit, I'm reaching here...but why not? It means they jump off of cliffs with ridiculous ease, or out of ...floating arctic cities or something. Mainly I imagine the shadow of the leaping Huge polar bear attack - and it is good.
5. Damage Die bump: This is where I'm thinking tricky. Even at 18 HD, the HD is only going to be D6 HD and their Base Attack is going to be on par with a Wizard (+9). This means that a lot of the tank tricks that you might assume from their size are going to be really rotten for them, even with large str and con bonuses, relative to the sorts of parties that are going to go against 18 HD creatures. However, if hits REALLY hard then the fact that it's under a goodly amount of hit points and has crappy attacks might be ignored. Characters will be compelled to stay way away from it else risk a luck 20 and ruinous damage, while still being in the range of its breath weapon.
I'm not in the warm fuzzies over 4 and 5, obviously. I just don't know how else you might go about it without hitting overkill, epic, or weirder than striking pages of inspiration from the classes section of the PHB. What else? It could spawn or summon, it could paralyze when it hits, it could poison (though poison seems weird with the arctic theme), or it could have something like horns or swallow whole or bear-freightrain-I-move-at-120-trampling or something. It could go weirder: it could knock people into another plane (DC X) when it hits them, it could level/ability drain, it could swap their genders, it could have Time Stop 3x/day and be REALLY scary. They could dance like the Scottish folklore bit, and pull a Baloo...
Appealing to the mythos surrounding the Aurora Borealis, I can see the little old men become more like dwarves and the shimmering becoming more akin to fire, and then the fey would be perfectly set up to sort of take on the Frost Giants as natural foes even more. I think it would be a little too pat for my tastes, and possibly a little close to some of the roles of other creatures from Frostburn (though I haven't looked to reference that book). I think considering swans as a possibly "arctic enough" animal might be interesting too - but again, I'm a Southern sort of guy and avoid snow at all costs myself. Unless it's been on National Geographic or Discovery Channel I have no clue if swans hang out in the deep cold or not.
Oh yes, I talk too much, especially when I've been coming back to this all day when I find the time. *sigh*
James Heard is online now Reply With Quote
James Heard
View Public Profile
Send a private message to James Heard
Find More Posts by James Heard
Add James Heard to Your Buddy List
Add James Heard to your ignore list
Old 04-29-06, 11:41 PM #38
Knight Otu
LEW Judge and PbP Mod
Knight Otu's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Germany
Last Seen: Today (02:18 PM)
Posts: 8,995
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
Aurora Borealis-like attack? Yes (not necessarily breath weapon). The prismatic spray idea is good, but maybe it also varies with the zodiacal sign.
Bear-like? Neutral on this. Yes if along with an alternate form.
Monkish? For plundering abilities, ok.
Anything I forgot?
__________________
Omygod, they killed Polly!
LEW Judge;When e-mailing me about LEW, make sure to include a LEW tag in the subject line
Semabin ai Harudan, currently involved in the quest of the Ransom for Retirement.
Ashnar, currently in the Assassin's Knot.
Knight Otu is offline Reply With Quote
Knight Otu
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Knight Otu
Send email to Knight Otu
Find More Posts by Knight Otu
Add Knight Otu to Your Buddy List
Add Knight Otu to your ignore list
Old 04-30-06, 06:00 AM #39
BOZ
Creature Cataloguer
BOZ's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Last Seen: Today (06:05 AM)
Posts: 15,128
Send a message via AIM to BOZ Send a message via Yahoo to BOZ
looks like there is a certain amount of agreement on a few things, whilst uncertainty remains on others. i'll make a more substantive post on this thread when i have had a chance to really examine it... which might not be until, say, tuesday at the rate it is growing.
seriously though, off-topic, my baby's first birthday was on friday, so i'm likely to be busy doing party stuff all day tomorrow. and my point above, may be that monday might be insufficient to catch up on reading.
BOZ is offline Reply With Quote
BOZ
View Public Profile
Send a private message to BOZ
Send email to BOZ
Visit BOZ's homepage!
Find More Posts by BOZ
Add BOZ to Your Buddy List
Add BOZ to your ignore list
Old 04-30-06, 06:03 AM #40
demiurge1138
Classic Style!
demiurge1138's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: California
Last Seen: Today (09:28 AM)
Posts: 3,857
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
Don't worry, BOZ, we can be patient. And congratulations! Tell her happy birthday for me.
Demiurge out.[/sblock][sblock=Page 2]James Heard
Registered User
James Heard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Last Seen: Today (01:25 PM)
Posts: 1,168
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
Yeah, no problem. Young kids are more fun than monsters any day of the week.
I might mention though, if the enormous flying wolverine doesn't get the cut for the fey it would make a pretty nifty monster concept anyways somewhere else. Maybe flying squirrel-ish wolverines, jumping down from snow-covered trees to eat adventurer faces off with savage snarls.
__________________
<Sig space for rent>
James Heard is online now Reply With Quote
James Heard
View Public Profile
Send a private message to James Heard
Find More Posts by James Heard
Add James Heard to Your Buddy List
Add James Heard to your ignore list
Old 04-30-06, 08:52 PM #42
Conaill
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Last Seen: Today (09:23 AM)
Posts: 3,142
My Wishlist
Don't worry, Boz. If you skip James' monster-thread, that'll cut down on half the reading already!
Just kidding... I actually do agree with the majority of that post, especially the fact that the polar bear transforming into a wizened humanoid very nicely gets around the "but why aren't these giants instead of fey?" issue. However, I still don't see any good justification for the monk aspect (let alone the kung fu!)...
Here's some more things to think about: Are we saying that this aurora effect of theirs looks like the Aurora Borealis, or that is is the Aurora Borealis? If the former, we really haven't addressed the "stellar" aspect of these fey. If the latter, I guess Aurora Borealis would marginally fit in the "stellar" category (although I'd be more likely to put it under "weather patterns"), but now we've given these fey an ability which stretches for miles and miles - at least in visibility, if perhaps not in effect.
Either way, we still haven't addressed what these fey's purpose is in life. What aspect of nature do they protect? Making them the guardians of the Earth's poles nicely gives them a very fey-like purpose in life, it enhances their "stellar" aspect, and it builds in some nice plot hooks. This is something we could easily add on top of the current "transforming polar bear fey".
__________________
Come join us in the Awakened Animals thread
Questions? Check the SRD, the online d20/D&D rules,
the Official D&D Game Rule FAQ, and Official D&D Errata.
Conaill is offline Reply With Quote
Conaill
View Public Profile
Find More Posts by Conaill
Add Conaill to Your Buddy List
Add Conaill to your ignore list
Old 04-30-06, 10:23 PM #43
demiurge1138
Classic Style!
demiurge1138's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: California
Last Seen: Today (09:28 AM)
Posts: 3,857
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
I do like the idea of guarding the poles... but why do the poles need protection? Who wants to harm them? What purpose would harming them serve? Do the illithids want to destroy the poles so that the planet will spin off into the comfortable dark void of space or something?
OK, maybe not the illithids - they're used all the time - but if we're going to establish these guys as guardians of the poles, we need to establish why they're guarding them, and possibly what from.
Demiurge out.
__________________
Villain- A Haiku by Demiurge
The heroes await.
They have come this far only
To die. Ha ha ha.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clueless
Prismatic Wall. - Because ships don't have brakes.
demiurge1138 is offline Reply With Quote
demiurge1138
View Public Profile
Send email to demiurge1138
Find More Posts by demiurge1138
Add demiurge1138 to Your Buddy List
Add demiurge1138 to your ignore list
Old 05-01-06, 02:27 AM #44
James Heard
Registered User
James Heard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Last Seen: Today (01:25 PM)
Posts: 1,168
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
I'm fond of them being Frost Giant hunters, which would also explain their enormous size.
Quote:
Are we saying that this aurora effect of theirs looks like the Aurora Borealis, or that is is the Aurora Borealis? If the former, we really haven't addressed the "stellar" aspect of these fey.
Why not? There are an awful lot of fey that are somehow attached to some aspect of the natural world that aren't actually performing that aspect literally or by being that aspect. I think there are three or so in the MMIII alone. If they were actual literal representations or originators of natural phenomena then they'd be elementals right? You could have a a fey that was geared to be attached to thunderstorms without them making storms or a fey that was attached to ponds without all ponds having one in there. Maybe they're invisible normally, except during the aurora borealis, or they lose their huge polar bear schtick during the aurora borealis, or they gain Mighty Magical Power during the aurora borealis. They don't have to be the only thing that creates the stellar effect, maybe they actually protect the earth from the aurora borealis, which are waves of prismatic nasty living spell, and they show up to eat the stuff - they not only shoot prismatic sprays, they're immune to prismatic effects of any kind or something? Maybe they're the only aspects of a larger natural aspect that once ate ALL magic, and their guardianship is to protect the world from magic (but since magic is so useful they're not very popular fuzzy bears) and they're only variety of fey of that kind left. That's sort of neat because it gives them a point of contention with every party. They'd be the manifestation of the actual purity of the planet from magical influence, and if that isn't stellar and global I don't know what is.
James Heard is online now Reply With Quote
James Heard
View Public Profile
Send a private message to James Heard
Find More Posts by James Heard
Add James Heard to Your Buddy List
Add James Heard to your ignore list
Old 05-01-06, 10:01 AM #45
Conaill
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Last Seen: Today (09:23 AM)
Posts: 3,142
My Wishlist
Ok, that's better. Now narrow it down to *one* of those ideas!
As for why the poles would need protection... that part of the story I'd gladly leave up to the DM's imagination. I can easily think of 5-6 story lines off the top of my head that would involve the PC's either trying to affect or helping protect the Earth's poles.
Last edited by Conaill : 05-01-06 at 10:11 AM.
Conaill is offline Reply With Quote
Conaill
View Public Profile
Find More Posts by Conaill
Add Conaill to Your Buddy List
Add Conaill to your ignore list
Old 05-01-06, 04:30 PM #46
BOZ
Creature Cataloguer
BOZ's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Last Seen: Today (06:05 AM)
Posts: 15,128
Send a message via AIM to BOZ Send a message via Yahoo to BOZ
yeah, we decided to go with the "guardian of the poles" pretty early on, just like we decided to go with the polar bear form early on - might as well stick with those.
__________________
don't quote me on that.
Help update the Creature Catalog!
Check out My Homepage!
Wiki wiki!
BOZ is offline Reply With Quote
BOZ
View Public Profile
Send a private message to BOZ
Send email to BOZ
Visit BOZ's homepage!
Find More Posts by BOZ
Add BOZ to Your Buddy List
Add BOZ to your ignore list
Old 05-01-06, 07:08 PM #47
Conaill
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Last Seen: Today (09:23 AM)
Posts: 3,142
My Wishlist
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Heard
[...]or they lose their huge polar bear schtick during the aurora borealis, or they gain Mighty Magical Power during the aurora borealis.
I like these two ideas best.
Or a third alternative: they actually create the Aurora Borealis using their own aurora ability, during a ritual in which a number of them participate. I can just imagine a circle of huge polar bears breathing colored light into the sky for hours...
Conaill is offline Reply With Quote
Conaill
View Public Profile
Find More Posts by Conaill
Add Conaill to Your Buddy List
Add Conaill to your ignore list
Old 05-01-06, 08:48 PM #48
BOZ
Creature Cataloguer
BOZ's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Last Seen: Today (06:05 AM)
Posts: 15,128
Send a message via AIM to BOZ Send a message via Yahoo to BOZ
OK, looked over a few things briefly (particularly where you all gave your quick "I like this, but not this" impressions), and came up with a quick sketch. We can add more on to this as needed, of course.
When we get to naming it, maybe Inuit or something else appropriate?
These things seem to be rather strongly in the consensus, and I like them myself, so we're starting at this point:
This neutral fey creature is the guardian of a world's poles, existing to keep the planet from tipping off its axis. Its natural shape is that of a huge polar bear, though instead of white fur it appears to be a star-field look (need a better way to phrase this - see Genis/Captain Marvel: http://www.avengersassemble.us/images/Genis.jpg). It has the ability to assume the form of a wizened ebony-skinned humanoid when it wishes to speak to sentient creatures.
I could see giving it a third form, like the wispy semi-transparent incorporeal flying creature that Conaill described.
I think giving them a breath weapon or something like it (ray, beam?), which is bright colorful and dazzling like the aurora borealis is a great idea. Rather than be just another thing like the prismatic spells, however, I like where we were going with the varying zodiac powers. I say the attack has one of 12 different effects based on time of year.
If I missed any cool stuff that people were talking about, I'm sorry: I haven't had the time yet to fully read this thread and I just skimmed to find stuff that I found appealing. Never fear, I will read the whole thing as time becomes available.
One idea I had was that - well, much of what fairykind does makes little sense to us humans. If you, an adventurer, met something that said it was guarding the North Pole to keep the world from tipping, you'd probably shrug and move on with your life. I could always go the angle of it *claims* to be guarding the poles, and its real purpose is enigmatic.
One thing I feel I need to say, and this goes for everyone. for those of you who have come up with totally cool ideas, which I don't get excited over or simply do not work for the concept we are going with (both on this thread and its predecessors), this does not mean the ideas are bad or can't work with some other creature. You can always give them to something else, whether you are submitting to a game company or just keeping it for your own use.
Why am I the person who is running these things? Is it because I'm in charge of the Creature Catalog site, or one of the moderators of ENWorld? Or am I just some awesome monster-guy or insane creative genius? Heck no. I'm just the guy who's doing it. You can, too. Whoever puts the work into something is the one who gets it done. Dragon takes submissions from basically anyone, and I'm no more special than any of you. I didn't want to use your idea? Use it yourself then, you might just have success with it.
BOZ is offline Reply With Quote
BOZ
View Public Profile
Send a private message to BOZ
Send email to BOZ
Visit BOZ's homepage!
Find More Posts by BOZ
Add BOZ to Your Buddy List
Add BOZ to your ignore list
Old 05-01-06, 08:58 PM #49
Knight Otu
LEW Judge and PbP Mod
Knight Otu's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Germany
Last Seen: Yesterday (12:33 AM)
Posts: 8,992
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOZ
http://www.avengersassemble.us/images/Genis.jpg)
Careful with the parentheses, BOZmaster.
This polar-bear-like creature seemingly has bright white fur, but a closer look reveals that it is instead dotted with motes of light, much like tiny stars in the night sky.
__________________
Omygod, they killed Polly!
LEW Judge;When e-mailing me about LEW, make sure to include a LEW tag in the subject line
Semabin ai Harudan, currently involved in the quest of the Ransom for Retirement.
Ashnar, currently in the Assassin's Knot.
Knight Otu is offline Reply With Quote
Knight Otu
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Knight Otu
Send email to Knight Otu
Find More Posts by Knight Otu
Add Knight Otu to Your Buddy List
Add Knight Otu to your ignore list
Old 05-01-06, 09:22 PM #50
BOZ
Creature Cataloguer
BOZ's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Last Seen: Today (06:05 AM)
Posts: 15,128
Send a message via AIM to BOZ Send a message via Yahoo to BOZ
actually, i think it would just be a field of black, shaped like a polar bear, dotted with stars. or it could switch between that and just looking like a perfectly normal polar bear.
BOZ is offline Reply With Quote
BOZ
View Public Profile
Send a private message to BOZ
Send email to BOZ
Visit BOZ's homepage!
Find More Posts by BOZ
Add BOZ to Your Buddy List
Add BOZ to your ignore list
Old 05-01-06, 10:04 PM #51
Conaill
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Last Seen: Today (09:23 AM)
Posts: 3,142
My Wishlist
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOZ
though instead of white fur it appears to be a star-field look
Wait... where did that come from?
I would strongly prefer a snow-white polar bear, transforming into a black-skinned old man, as James originally suggested, for all the good reasons he mentioned on the previous page. The color contrast adds some really nice flavor, plus the white polar bear allows it to blen dinto its environment (both in terms of camouflage, as well as being able to pass for an ordinary polar bear from a large distance). Not sure a pitchblack polar bear would even be recognized as a polar bear - it'd just be a huge, bulky quadruped monster. We did mention "eyes like stars" a few times, and I think that would work great on the humanoid form - maybe the bear form as well.
Also, I don't think there's any reason to add the zodiac aspect back in as well. I think that might make for too much of a mish-mash of ideas. A shapeshifting polar bear linked to the Aurora Borealis and the Earth's poles seems plenty.
Conaill is offline Reply With Quote
Conaill
View Public Profile
Find More Posts by Conaill
Add Conaill to Your Buddy List
Add Conaill to your ignore list
Old 05-01-06, 10:31 PM #52
James Heard
Registered User
James Heard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Last Seen: Today (01:25 PM)
Posts: 1,168
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boz
actually, i think it would just be a field of black, shaped like a polar bear, dotted with stars. or it could switch between that and just looking like a perfectly normal polar bear.
Maybe that would justify some sort of weird connection with the Plane of Shadow? The Astral plane? Maybe our polar bear fey aren't really guarding the poles per say, but where they kicked the Shadar Kai (sp?) out of the world (and protect the artifacts that might bring them back?).... Or maybe they've got some menacing confrontation going on with etherguants or any of the other uncommon monsters from MM2 & MM3?
Last edited by James Heard : 05-01-06 at 10:37 PM.
James Heard is online now Reply With Quote
James Heard
View Public Profile
Send a private message to James Heard
Find More Posts by James Heard
Add James Heard to Your Buddy List
Add James Heard to your ignore list
Old 05-02-06, 02:39 AM #53
demiurge1138
Classic Style!
demiurge1138's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: California
Last Seen: Today (09:28 AM)
Posts: 3,857
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
I say let the little black old man be dotted with (and have eyes of) pinpoints of white starlight. The polar bear form is white, but its eyes and mouth open up into the black void of night.
Demiurge out.
demiurge1138 is offline Reply With Quote
demiurge1138
View Public Profile
Send email to demiurge1138
Find More Posts by demiurge1138
Add demiurge1138 to Your Buddy List
Add demiurge1138 to your ignore list
Old 05-02-06, 05:51 PM #54
BOZ
Creature Cataloguer
BOZ's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Last Seen: Today (06:05 AM)
Posts: 15,128
Send a message via AIM to BOZ Send a message via Yahoo to BOZ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conaill
Wait... where did that come from?
my imagination. i've always thought the star-field look was cool, used largely by Marvel comics characters to make them look more "cosmic". i thought of it immediately when i first read James' line "How about some sort of fey star-polar bears? Maybe fey that shift into scary polar bears?", but i didn't mention it before. it would be a purely visual effect, and i want to use it. i don't care if that makes it look unnatural, but i can see why having a normal polar bear appearance is useful. so, whether the star-field look is its natural form, or if the polar bear's look can alternate between white fur and the spacey void, or if we give it to the little man form's skin or clothing as demiurge suggests, i want it to be in there somewhere, just because i want it and for no other good reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Heard
Maybe that would justify some sort of weird connection with the Plane of Shadow? The Astral plane? Maybe our polar bear fey aren't really guarding the poles per say, but where they kicked the Shadar Kai (sp?) out of the world (and protect the artifacts that might bring them back?).... Or maybe they've got some menacing confrontation going on with etherguants or any of the other uncommon monsters from MM2 & MM3?
hmm, no on the planar connection - i want this boy to be purely terrestrial (although his head is definitely in the clouds; he's keenly aware that there is "something out there").
however, other conflicts (i like the shadar-kai better) seem like they make more sense.
utlimately, i like the idea of a tricksy tricksy fey - sure, it claims to be out there guarding the polls, whatever that means, but this is just a diversion from whatever its real purpose is. and i'd like to leave that one up to the DM. also, it keeps us from having to limit them to a single specific purpose.
BOZ is offline Reply With Quote
BOZ
View Public Profile
Send a private message to BOZ
Send email to BOZ
Visit BOZ's homepage!
Find More Posts by BOZ
Add BOZ to Your Buddy List
Add BOZ to your ignore list
Old 05-02-06, 08:33 PM #55
James Heard
Registered User
James Heard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Last Seen: Today (01:25 PM)
Posts: 1,168
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
Maybe the breath weapon looks like scintillating colors, but it's really sucking anyone caught in the effect into the bear's maw which can fit things in there that seem unreasonable (bonus on normal swallow whole size rules) and cause energy drain damage each turn while swallowed? And then it can expel whatever's left as some sort of spawn? Something like fey Shadows or somesuch, pitch black forms made of the stuff of space and stars? Maybe their alternate "old men" forms ARE Shadar Kai, except exceptionally old material plane resident Shadar Kai, stuck someplace in between their old lives and the rest of their race, hanging out in the polar regions because one side of them is always fighting on the Plane of Shadows and the other has to chase down Shadar Kai that are continually infiltrating through their weakening of the planar barriers during the winter months - and fighting Shadar Kai in the arctic is easier and safer for the rest of the world than anyplace else?
James Heard is online now Reply With Quote
James Heard
View Public Profile
Send a private message to James Heard
Find More Posts by James Heard
Add James Heard to Your Buddy List
Add James Heard to your ignore list
Old 05-03-06, 11:50 PM #56
dhaga
Registered User
dhaga's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicopee, MA
Last Seen: Yesterday (07:18 PM)
Posts: 31
Send a message via AIM to dhaga
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conaill
Also, I don't think there's any reason to add the zodiac aspect back in as well. I think that might make for too much of a mish-mash of ideas. A shapeshifting polar bear linked to the Aurora Borealis and the Earth's poles seems plenty.
We have fallen a bit far from the zodiac aspects (except in mentioning their influence within the breath weapon). Are there going to be multiple types of fey created via this thread? Or are we focusing solely on the polar bear types? I agree with Conaill -- do we want to try and pack in zodiac aspects as well...or leave those for a separate type of fey, who have connections to these huge bears, but are not specifically them?
__________________
"You're dead. Only the cleric can talk to you now."
Last edited by dhaga : 05-03-06 at 11:54 PM.
dhaga is offline Reply With Quote
dhaga
View Public Profile
Send a private message to dhaga
Visit dhaga's homepage!
Find More Posts by dhaga
Add dhaga to Your Buddy List
Add dhaga to your ignore list
Old 05-04-06, 09:00 AM #57
BOZ
Creature Cataloguer
BOZ's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Last Seen: Today (06:05 AM)
Posts: 15,128
Send a message via AIM to BOZ Send a message via Yahoo to BOZ
Dhaga, we are only working on the concept for a single creature.
OK, I gave some consideration to the star-field appearance. First of all, polar bears are, what, 12-15 feet long? Well, the Huge size category *starts* at 16 feet, so this guy is going to be noticeably larger than a regular polar bear anyway. Therefore, I'm not all that concerned with how well they carry off that camouflage. That, and there is always the option of allowing them to switch off between a star-field/void appearance, and a regular white furred bear appearance. Or the "big semi-amorphous star beast" form suggested by demiurge on the first page.
That said, it would probably be easier and simpler to have the star-field look reflected in the ebony gnomish form. Unless a few of you out there like my original concept, I may as well go with that.
Another thing. Our concept, originally, was not specifically a zodiac creature. It was that of a stellar spirit, which means it could have something to do with any of the sun, moon, planets, stars, and/or zodiac. So, we are not limited to the zodiac concept.
I finally found the time to go back and read the whole thread, starting on page 2 (to catch the more recent ideas), then going back to page 1 (to make sure I didn't miss anything good). Rather than post to every point I found, since there are so many, I decided to respond to only the parts I felt were most important.
I think the breath weapon/ray/gaze/area effect/whatever attack can have 12 effects, one for each month, or it can have one for each season perhaps. We hardly need to decide that now, anyway, as that's getting much too specific for the proposal (though I would like to decide what form the attack takes - a gaze is definitely different in effect from a breath weapon). I think the attack should be usable in both forms, to allay concerns that the little man form is totally defenseless. The effect, whatever form it takes, is definitely going to have a prismy-look to it.
If you want to connect it to the actual Aurora Borealis itself, how would we accomplish that? First of all, what creates the phenomenon - since it's a natural occurrence, I'm not sure I want to tie its appearance solely to our fey. If the aurora borealis instead affects them rather than being affected by the fey, do we want it to take away the polar bear form, or grant them extra power or both or what? Having them converge when it occurs naturally is a fine idea. A fascination or hypnosis effect caused by the aurora might be cool, but it might be too much if they already have a bunch of other powers.
Given one aurora myth that Conaill posted, the fey could be serving as guardians to the paths of the death, as the aurora lights the way there. Just a possibility. Maybe the lights are the spirits of dead fey instead, since they often revolve around both faeries and the dead, and that would combine the concepts. That would give these guys the purpose we've been seeking. Let me know if you like this.
We can discuss ditching the aurora aspect for a weather-related aspect instead. I'm open to suggestions there, since I'm certainly not married to the aurora borealis idea at all (even though I did suggest it in the first post).
Giving them spell-like abilities makes perfect sense, as this sort of thing is a staple fey standard. Something like trackless step, and/or improved evasion would be a nice addition. So would a trample attack.
Do we want them to have a third form, like the wispy semi-transparent incorporeal flying creature that Conaill described?
The base idea revised:
This neutral fey creature claims to be the guardian of the world's poles, though its true purpose remains a mystery to all but itself.
Its natural form is that of an oversized polar bear, with eyes and mouth that seem to open up into the black void of night.
It has the ability to assume the form of a wizened gnome-sized humanoid when it wishes to speak to sentient creatures. This form's skin appears to be ebony, dotted with pinpoints of white starlight like a cosmic field of stars.
BOZ is offline Reply With Quote
BOZ
View Public Profile
Send a private message to BOZ
Send email to BOZ
Visit BOZ's homepage!
Find More Posts by BOZ
Add BOZ to Your Buddy List
Add BOZ to your ignore list
Old 05-04-06, 04:07 PM #58
demiurge1138
Classic Style!
demiurge1138's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: California
Last Seen: Today (09:28 AM)
Posts: 3,857
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
The "base idea revised" looks good to me.
Demiurge out.
demiurge1138 is offline Reply With Quote
demiurge1138
View Public Profile
Send email to demiurge1138
Find More Posts by demiurge1138
Add demiurge1138 to Your Buddy List
Add demiurge1138 to your ignore list
Old 05-04-06, 06:03 PM #59
Conaill
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Last Seen: Today (09:23 AM)
Posts: 3,142
My Wishlist
Yup, sounds good. We just need another line or two about its powers and we're pretty much done. (Or at least done enough for a one-paragraph submission.)
Conaill is offline Reply With Quote
Conaill
View Public Profile
Find More Posts by Conaill
Add Conaill to Your Buddy List
Add Conaill to your ignore list
Old 05-04-06, 06:33 PM #60
BOZ
Creature Cataloguer
BOZ's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Last Seen: Today (06:05 AM)
Posts: 15,128
Send a message via AIM to BOZ Send a message via Yahoo to BOZ
that's what i figure. any input on the rest of my post, then?
i don't think we need any more new ideas at this point, unless something seriously trumps what we already have, or neatly fills in gaps. let's work with what has already been proposed to finish up our idea.
Last edited by BOZ : 05-04-06 at 06:38 PM.
BOZ is offline Reply With Quote
BOZ
View Public Profile
Send a private message to BOZ
Send email to BOZ
Visit BOZ's homepage!
Find More Posts by BOZ
Add BOZ to Your Buddy List
Add BOZ to your ignore list
Old 05-04-06, 08:00 PM #61
James Heard
Registered User
James Heard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Last Seen: Today (01:25 PM)
Posts: 1,168
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOZ
OK, I gave some consideration to the star-field appearance. First of all, polar bears are, what, 12-15 feet long? Well, the Huge size category *starts* at 16 feet, so this guy is going to be noticeably larger than a regular polar bear anyway. Therefore, I'm not all that concerned with how well they carry off that camouflage. That, and there is always the option of allowing them to switch off between a star-field/void appearance, and a regular white furred bear appearance. Or the "big semi-amorphous star beast" form suggested by demiurge on the first page.
I was pretty much going on the assumption that the Huge Polar bear was going to be about twice the size of a normal bear. Yogi on steroids. Still, white on white at a distance camouflages anything really. I think the big issue is which form is their primary form, because that's the form that's going to pop up under True Seeing and TS should be pretty normal at the CRs that this thing is operating at. There could also be three forms: A regular-sized polar bear, a huge starfield intangible polar bear-shaped spooky thing, and the little humanoid dude. That one would make them "just another bear" more or less, giving the GM an opportunity to engage in some rattling. "You set up camp. Roll a Spot check. 35? Well John, for you it looks as if one of the polar bears is scribbling in a notebook."
Quote:
I think the breath weapon/ray/gaze/area effect/whatever attack can have 12 effects, one for each month, or it can have one for each season perhaps. We hardly need to decide that now, anyway, as that's getting much too specific for the proposal (though I would like to decide what form the attack takes - a gaze is definitely different in effect from a breath weapon). I think the attack should be usable in both forms, to allay concerns that the little man form is totally defenseless. The effect, whatever form it takes, is definitely going to have a prismy-look to it.
I don't like the 12 effects thing, because if nothing else that would be something I'd have to determine and plan ahead for as a GM, unless the effect were determined by a die roll once the Save was failed. Seasonal changes really makes there be 12 monsters with similar forms, because what group is ever going to be fighting these things all the time? Maybe if the HD were dropped and the attack were based on age-categories (that WOULD allow for them to be used throughout some lucky adventurer's career like dragons) then that would be ok, I think it would be annoying otherwise though.
Quote:
Given one aurora myth that Conaill posted, the fey could be serving as guardians to the paths of the death, as the aurora lights the way there. Just a possibility. Maybe the lights are the spirits of dead fey instead, since they often revolve around both faeries and the dead, and that would combine the concepts. That would give these guys the purpose we've been seeking. Let me know if you like this.
I think it would be really cool to make them aurora borealis polar bear necromancers, but I'm a little afraid of knocking them into Epic by accident. Given that my preference is for them to be naturally bears and probably not going to be a long conversation with the players most of the time, but an enigmatic encounter or three where players end up with a half-dozen wrong explanations for what they're all about, I think that a death thing would be really neat. It also explains their Neutral alignment, rather than a Good variation.
Quote:
We can discuss ditching the aurora aspect for a weather-related aspect instead. I'm open to suggestions there, since I'm certainly not married to the aurora borealis idea at all (even though I did suggest it in the first post).
Are there weather-related necromancy spells in Frostburn or LM? That might be interesting. I'll have to check.
Quote:
Do we want them to have a third form, like the wispy semi-transparent incorporeal flying creature that Conaill described?
I like the star field incorporeal death bear form pretty well. But then again, I like the idea of flying wolverines too.
James Heard is online now Reply With Quote
James Heard
View Public Profile
Send a private message to James Heard
Find More Posts by James Heard
Add James Heard to Your Buddy List
Add James Heard to your ignore list
Old 05-04-06, 09:26 PM #62
Shade
Monster Junkie
Shade's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Plane of Shadow
Last Seen: Today (06:24 AM)
Posts: 6,106
I like the "basic idea revised" as well.
As for the other points:
* I prefer breath weapon to gaze attack. Something about the bear opening its mouth to release the colors just seems to fit better.
* Third form: Cool, but probably unnecessary.
* Is the aurora borealis made manifest: No. Associated with the aurora borealis. Sure. Guardian to pathway to dead via a.b. Nifty.
__________________
"Chuck Norris does not sleep. He waits."
"If you can see Chuck Norris, he can see you. If you can't see Chuck Norris you may be only seconds away from death."
Random Chuck Norris Facts
- Shade
Shade is offline Reply With Quote
Shade
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Shade
Find More Posts by Shade
Add Shade to Your Buddy List
Add Shade to your ignore list
Old 05-04-06, 10:09 PM #63
James Heard
Registered User
James Heard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Last Seen: Today (01:25 PM)
Posts: 1,168
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shade
I like the "basic idea revised" as well.
As for the other points:
* I prefer breath weapon to gaze attack. Something about the bear opening its mouth to release the colors just seems to fit better.
* Third form: Cool, but probably unnecessary.
* Is the aurora borealis made manifest: No. Associated with the aurora borealis. Sure. Guardian to pathway to dead via a.b. Nifty.
* I prefer the breath weapon too, especially since the whole "bear that's full of star-stuff and releasing it" thing seems weirdly appropriate.
* Maybe it's another attack. Something REALLY nasty that it can't do all the time, or a spell I can't think of as a SLA, something like that?
* Polar bear fey necromancers probably even beats out kung fu fey polar bears.
James Heard is online now Reply With Quote
James Heard
View Public Profile
Send a private message to James Heard
Find More Posts by James Heard
Add James Heard to Your Buddy List
Add James Heard to your ignore list
Old Yesterday, 12:58 AM #64
Conaill
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Last Seen: Today (09:23 AM)
Posts: 3,142
My Wishlist
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Heard
I was pretty much going on the assumption that the Huge Polar bear was going to be about twice the size of a normal bear. Yogi on steroids. Still, white on white at a distance camouflages anything really.
Not to mention that on a snow covered landscape without any other scale references nearby, it gets *really* hard to judge size at a distance. You could probably come within a couple hundred feet of this guy before you notice he's too friggin bloody huge for a normal polar bear.
Quote:
I don't like the 12 effects thing, because if nothing else that would be something I'd have to determine and plan ahead for as a GM, unless the effect were determined by a die roll once the Save was failed. Seasonal changes really makes there be 12 monsters with similar forms, because what group is ever going to be fighting these things all the time?
Ditto. I still think this is a good idea for a "zodiac monster". But I wouldn't want to tack this onto our already somewhat complicated creature.
* Definitely breath weapon over gaze attack. Although it doesn't have to be your regular "if it touches you, you take damage". Maybe even a ward that they spin using their breath?
* Third form: nah - two forms is complicated enough
* Connection to the Aurora Borealis: I still like the idea that a group of these can actually create the Aurora using their "breath". What the purpose of this is, I dunno. Pathway for the dead possibly interferes with wathever other death mythology your game world has, athough restricting it specifically to dead *fey* may be a good way around this.
Last edited by Conaill : Yesterday at 01:03 AM.
Conaill is offline Reply With Quote
Conaill
View Public Profile
Find More Posts by Conaill
Add Conaill to Your Buddy List
Add Conaill to your ignore list
Old Yesterday, 01:31 AM #65
demiurge1138
Classic Style!
demiurge1138's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: California
Last Seen: Today (09:28 AM)
Posts: 3,857
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
I've always been for the breath weapon over the gaze attack. And three forms seems too complicated. Guardian of the path of dead fey, though... I like the sound of that.
Demiurge out.
demiurge1138 is offline Reply With Quote
demiurge1138
View Public Profile
Send email to demiurge1138
Find More Posts by demiurge1138
Add demiurge1138 to Your Buddy List
Add demiurge1138 to your ignore list
Old Yesterday, 06:42 PM #66
Conaill
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Last Seen: Today (09:23 AM)
Posts: 3,142
My Wishlist
I was looking through the mythology posts some more, trying to see what else would fit with out current concept...
Quote:
The whistling crackling noise which sometimes accompanies the aurora is the voices of these spirits trying to communicate with the people of the Earth. They should always be answered in a whispering voice. Youths dance to the aurora. The heavenly spirits are called selamiut, "sky-dwellers," those who live in the sky.
Even today in the north, children are told not to whistle or sing to the northern lights. "The lights will come and take you away. They are not to be trusted." Many of the Inuit carvings display the Aurora Borealis as decapitating heads of unsuspecting people.
A lot of elderly people living in the north of Sweden can remember as children being told to act nice and silent when there were auroras in the sky. To misbehave at that time was very serious.
In both Scandinavia and North America some people believe that you can call the aurora by whistling, but to do so can be dangerous.
There are a lot of stories describing how dangerous the aurora could be. There is a story about a young man from Norway, who despite his big brother's warnings, was killed by the aurora because he was teasing it.
What if instead of guarding a pathway for the dead, our fey can open some sort of gateway, through which one can communicate with the dead? The dead may be able to reach out and manifest. Maybe this is one of the main powers of the fey: they can call upon the ghosts of the dead to do their bidding.
In this scenario, one or multiple fey would eactually create the Aurora Borealis with their breath (a gradual process - multiple fey may be able to call it into being instanteneously, but one lone fey might take a long time, or could only call minor ghosts at first). Once the Aurora is established, they can get information from the ghosts on the Other Side, or call ghosts down from the Aurora to fight for them. Mortals may also be able to catch the attention of the ghosts by whistling at the aurora, but doing so may bring the wrath of angry ghosts upon them.
Used as a breath weapon, the Aurora Breath would cause a combination of a strong Fear effect, Deathwatch, plus some form of necromantic damage (Enervation, Harm, Ray or Waves of Exhaustion, Energy Drain).
Conaill is offline Reply With Quote
Conaill
View Public Profile
Find More Posts by Conaill
Add Conaill to Your Buddy List
Add Conaill to your ignore list
Old Today, 05:13 AM #67
BOZ
Creature Cataloguer
BOZ's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Last Seen: Today (06:05 AM)
Posts: 15,128
Send a message via AIM to BOZ Send a message via Yahoo to BOZ
I apologize for having been so quiet the last few days - i've been stupid-style busy at work lately.
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Heard
"Still, white on white at a distance camouflages anything really.
"Mommy, do you like my picture?"
"I don't see a picture. That page is just white."
"No, mommy, that's a polar bear in a snowstorm!"
We can just take the oversized bear as its natural form, I think. It becomes a sort of "reverse-spriggan" that way - its alternate form is smaller and weaker than its natural form.
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Heard
There could also be three forms: A regular-sized polar bear, a huge starfield intangible polar bear-shaped spooky thing, and the little humanoid dude.
If we go with that, I'd make starbear its natural form. though I would probably want to drop incorporeality, as that really complicates things.
As for the form of attack, there seems to be more agreement on breath weapon that I thought there was. so, that is fine with me, and that's what we'll have. One idea I thought of today was the oft-overlooked breath weapon of an iron (?) golem, which breathes a cloud that lingers for 1 round. Just a thought. Conaill's got some ideas for that, it seems.
One direction that occurred to me that I really want to pursue is that they have a connection specifically to the spirits of dead fey, and I think most of you are with me on that. Perhaps the aurora is the pathway, or the signal to spirits of how to get to the afterlife, and the starbears are the guardians/guides. Not quite sure.
We can drop the 12-different effects on the breath weapon, if that seems impractical. We can tie the effect into some other celestial occurrence, or just have it be more simple. But it would help to decide just what it does. Yes, it could breath out vapors that become A.B., but that would have to constitute and attack somehow to qualify as a weapon. If they want to use A.B. or something else to communicate with or summon the dead, I think it should be something separate from the breath weapon (though, I could see it working in conjunction, possibly).
Not too sure if I like them using the spirits to do their bidding though - if our bears are to be more monkish in attitude, I think they would be more concerned with helping souls reach their destination than with keeping them involved with the mortal plane.
BOZ is offline Reply With Quote
BOZ
View Public Profile
Send a private message to BOZ
Send email to BOZ
Visit BOZ's homepage!
Find More Posts by BOZ
Add BOZ to Your Buddy List
Add BOZ to your ignore list
Old Today, 05:46 AM #68
James Heard
Registered User
James Heard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Last Seen: Today (01:25 PM)
Posts: 1,168
My Bookshelf
My Wishlist
Quote:
Not too sure if I like them using the spirits to do their bidding though - if our bears are to be more monkish in attitude, I think they would be more concerned with helping souls reach their destination than with keeping them involved with the mortal plane.
So maybe they're necromancers, but the arcane sort of 'suck your souls + energy drain' necromancers. That also draws a map for the "star field bear" a little, without going into intangibility: We could give them a SLA of mirror-image x/day where it explains the description as altering the appearance, or adding another effect to the normal spell (maybe some sort of immunity or improved SR/Spell reflection). So they'd have some abilities that would allow them to dust undead easier, punk out people with energy draining/etc necromancy sans cleric crunch, huge sized polar bear form, smaller but still nasty old gnome form, and some sort of colorful yet lethal breath weapon.
I think I might make it absolutely immune to spells from the necromancy school just to be mean. I don't think it's out of line with the HD, especially if they're not going to show up as Organization: Band 10-100 I like to think that the suggestion of 10 or more 16-18 HD anything would be a cause for major amounts of alarm for just about anyone without Thor's hammer tucked in their belt loop as a souvenier?[/sblock]
Last edited:
