Special Conversion Thread: Finishing off the oozes

[Cleon]

Let's bump Cha to 10, giving us...

Str 11, Dex 5, Con 20, Int 7, Wis 11, Cha 10

Well I'm not sure it merits a Charisma equaling an average human, but agree 1 may be too low. although it shoesn't make a great deal of difference as far as its skill use goes, maybe something in the Cha 6-8 range would be more suitably, that matches many "ugly dumb brute" type monsters such as Gargoyles, Rust Monsters etc. Furthermore, it just strikes me as weird having a ooze be more charismatic than it is intelligent, unless its tied in with the monster's powers or theme.

How about Cha 6, one point lower than its Int?

In this case, lets not adhere to strict translation of AC. Very few oozes have natural armor bonuses, and the ones name-dropped for comparison lack it, so let's not give it any.

Yes I tend to apply an over-literal translation of their stats. Most Oozes have a much worse AC in 3rd edition D&D than the same monster under the 1st/2nd edition AD&D rules, so it would be appropriate to mark the goop ghoul's AC down. If it follows the standard 'no armour' Ooze paradigm it'd be:

Armor Class: 8 (-2 Dex) touch 8, flat-footed 8

 

[freyar]

Cha 6 is ok by me. Ready to deal with SAs?

 

[Cleon]

Cha 6 is ok by me. Ready to deal with SAs?

Okay, I'll try to cover them all in one go. Half of the abilities are pretty straight forward, it's only the Attach to Skeleton, Engulf and Split into Spawn that look like they'll require much fiddling around with.

Here's my rough draft, it looks like it's too elaborate but should be easy enough to trim down:

Blindsight 60 ft.

Acid (Ex)
A goop ghoul's acid only affects flesh, it does not harm bone, metal or stone. They cannot employ its acid as an attack in melee, only using it to dissolve engulfed victims.

Attach To Skeleton (Ex)
A goop ghoul can flow over a skeleton and attach itself to the bones like muscles and ligaments, and thus use the skeleton as a means of transportation and attack. It takes one round for a goop ghoul to attach itself to a skeleton in such a way as to be able to manipulate it. A goop ghoul can use any skeleton of a two- or four-legged Medium sized creature, it gains a speed of 30 ft. when using any sort of skeleton.
Goop ghouls can use the skeleton's natural weaponry, such as teeth or claws, or wield simple weapons if the skeleton possesses that ability, but can not use any armour.
A goop ghoul is usually encountered mounted on a skeleton, the stretched-out goop ghoul resembles rotted tissue, so the creature is easily mistaken for an undead skeleton or deteriorated zombie, it requires a DC 15 Spot check to detect the imposture.
As a goop ghoul is not undead, it cannot be turned. However, it is possible for a goop ghoul to latch onto an undead, such as an animated skeleton. In this case, the goop ghoul has no control over the undead's movement and is more or less just along for the ride. It would be possible for a priest to turn the undead, but the goop ghoul would be free to "abandon skeleton" and seek out a new source of transportation (probably the priest).
Although a goop ghoul prefers the use of skeletons above all else, a goop ghoul can, on rare occasions, attach itself to sturdy rodlike objects that allow movement of the sort it is used to. Thus, several large sticks or a pile of swords might be used as a "skeleton" of sorts, good enough for half-normal movement (15 ft.).

Engulf (Ex)
A goop ghoul can engulf a paralyzed creature as a standard action, merely by flowing its body over them. It cannot make a slam attack during a round in which it engulfs. Engulfed creatures are subject to the cube’s paralysis and take 1d8 acid damage per round. If the victim regains movement before being dissolved, they may throw off the goop ghoul by succeeding in a grapple contest against the goop ghoul. A goop ghoul engulfing a victim can be removed by applying fire. Casting Heal or Cure Disease on its victim also makes a goop ghoul withdraw, though such spells cause no harm to the monster.
Any being slain and dissolved by a goop ghoul cannot be raised from the dead without the use of a Wish spell, though the skeleton is fit for use with an Animate Dead spell.
The save DC is Strength-based and includes a +1 racial bonus.

Paralysis (Ex)
A goop ghoul secretes an anesthetizing slime. A target hit by a monster’s touch or engulf attack must succeed on a DC 16 Fortitude save or be paralyzed for 4d4 rounds. The goop ghoul can automatically engulf a paralyzed opponent. Once the duration of paralysis wears off the victim becomes immune to goop ghoul paralysis for one full day. The save DC is Constitution-based. (DC=10+1[½ of 2HD]+5[Con 20])

Split (Ex)
A normal-sized goop ghoul will double in size by completely devouring the flesh of an average Medium-sized creature and be ready to split into two normal-sized goop ghouls, a process that takes only one round. Whichever of the two is closest to the freshly stripped skeleton will generally claim it for movement purposes.
Larger creatures can provide enough flesh for goop ghouls to split more than once - it requires 150-200 lbs of flesh for a goop ghoul to reproduce, so a 600 pound ogre's corpse would typically provide enough flesh to spawn three goop ghouls.
A goop ghoul which absorbs 75-150 pounds of flesh will grow large enough to become a 3 HD monster, but is not big enough to reproduce.

Immunity to Electricity

Ooze Traits
Unlike a standard ooze, a goop ghoul lacks the mindless trait and has proficiency in simple weapons. It retains the oozes other traits of blindness; immunity to gaze attacks, visual effects, illusions, and other attack forms that rely on sight; immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, polymorph, and stunning; immunity to critical hits or flanking; no armour proficiencies and having to eat and breath, but not sleep.

Transparent (Ex)
Goop ghouls are hard to see, even under ideal conditions, and it takes a DC 15 Spot check to notice one.

Resistance to Cold 10?

Vulnerability to Fire (Ex)
A goop ghoul takes half again as much (+50%) damage as normal from the effect, regardless of whether a saving throw is allowed, or if the save is a success or failure. A goop ghoul will retreat from fire.

 

[freyar]

Okay, I'll try to cover them all in one go. Half of the abilities are pretty straight forward, it's only the Attach to Skeleton, Engulf and Split into Spawn that look like they'll require much fiddling around with.

Wowsers, you're fast!

Blindsight 60 ft.

Acid (Ex)
A goop ghoul's acid only affects flesh, it does not harm bone, metal or stone. They cannot employ its acid as an attack in melee, only using it to dissolve engulfed victims.

Since it only uses acid on engulfed victims, I think we can leave this out and just have acid damage in Engulf.

Attach To Skeleton (Ex)
A goop ghoul can flow over a skeleton and attach itself to the bones like muscles and ligaments, and thus use the skeleton as a means of transportation and attack. It takes one round for a goop ghoul to attach itself to a skeleton in such a way as to be able to manipulate it. A goop ghoul can use any skeleton of a two- or four-legged Medium sized creature, it gains a speed of 30 ft. when using any sort of skeleton.
Goop ghouls can use the skeleton's natural weaponry, such as teeth or claws, or wield simple weapons if the skeleton possesses that ability, but can not use any armor.
A goop ghoul is usually encountered mounted on a skeleton. The stretched-out goop ghoul resembles rotted tissue, so the creature is easily mistaken for an undead skeleton or deteriorated zombie. It requires a DC 15 Spot check to detect the imposture.
As a goop ghoul is not undead, it cannot be turned. However, it is possible for a goop ghoul to latch onto an undead, such as an animated skeleton. In this case, the goop ghoul has no control over the undead's movement and is more or less just along for the ride. It would be possible for a priest to turn the undead, but the goop ghoul would be free to "abandon skeleton" and seek out a new source of transportation (probably the priest).
Although a goop ghoul prefers the use of skeletons above all else, a goop ghoul can, on rare occasions, attach itself to sturdy rodlike objects that allow movement of the sort it is used to. Thus, several large sticks or a pile of swords might be used as a "skeleton" of sorts, good enough for half-normal movement (15 ft.).

I like this quite a bit! I did fix a run-on sentence and some spelling, but this seems pretty good. We'll see what Shade thinks.

Engulf (Ex)
A goop ghoul can engulf a paralyzed creature as a standard action, merely by flowing its body over them. It cannot make a slam attack during a round in which it engulfs. Engulfed creatures are subject to the cube’s paralysis and take 1d8 acid damage per round. If the victim regains movement before being dissolved, they may throw off the goop ghoul by succeeding in a grapple contest against the goop ghoul. A goop ghoul engulfing a victim can be removed by applying fire. Casting Heal or Cure Disease on its victim also makes a goop ghoul withdraw, though such spells cause no harm to the monster.
Any being slain and dissolved by a goop ghoul cannot be raised from the dead without the use of a Wish spell, though the skeleton is fit for use with an Animate Dead spell.
The save DC is Strength-based and includes a +1 racial bonus.

Wait, what's the DC for? Also, the wish restriction seems a little harsh (I know it's in the original). I'd argue that the need for either true resurrection or even resurrection (if a bit of the body is left over) is pretty bad for a 2HD critter.

Paralysis (Ex)
A goop ghoul secretes an anesthetizing slime. A target hit by a monster’s touch or engulf attack must succeed on a DC 16 Fortitude save or be paralyzed for 4d4 rounds. The goop ghoul can automatically engulf a paralyzed opponent. Once the duration of paralysis wears off the victim becomes immune to goop ghoul paralysis for one full day. The save DC is Constitution-based. (DC=10+1[½ of 2HD]+5[Con 20])

Looks good.

Split (Ex)
A normal-sized goop ghoul will double in size by completely devouring the flesh of an average Medium-sized creature and be ready to split into two normal-sized goop ghouls, a process that takes only one round. Whichever of the two is closest to the freshly stripped skeleton will generally claim it for movement purposes.
Larger creatures can provide enough flesh for goop ghouls to split more than once - it requires 150-200 lbs of flesh for a goop ghoul to reproduce, so a 600 pound ogre's corpse would typically provide enough flesh to spawn three goop ghouls.
A goop ghoul which absorbs 75-150 pounds of flesh will grow large enough to become a 3 HD monster, but is not big enough to reproduce.

Maybe we can put the poundage requirements in the flavor text? In that case, we've done some split SAs before. Basically, we need to specify how many HD the goop ghoul needs and how it splits them up.

Here's one we did before (ignore all the stuff about max hp; that was specific to the critter in question):
Split (Ex): A full healed grave watcher of 10 or more HD can split into two grave watchers. The two new grave watchers may have any combination of HD that totals to the HD of the original grave watcher, but each must have at least 5 HD. Each new grave watcher has maximum hit points for its Hit Dice. This process takes 4 rounds, during which the grave watcher may take no other actions.

Immunity to Electricity

Ooze Traits
Unlike a standard ooze, a goop ghoul lacks the mindless trait and has proficiency in simple weapons. It retains the oozes other traits of blindness; immunity to gaze attacks, visual effects, illusions, and other attack forms that rely on sight; immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, polymorph, and stunning; immunity to critical hits or flanking; no armour proficiencies and having to eat and breath, but not sleep.

Standard, don't even need to spell it all out.

Transparent (Ex)
Goop ghouls are hard to see, even under ideal conditions, and it takes a DC 15 Spot check to notice one.

Resistance to Cold 10?

Vulnerability to Fire (Ex)
A goop ghoul takes half again as much (+50%) damage as normal from the effect, regardless of whether a saving throw is allowed, or if the save is a success or failure. A goop ghoul will retreat from fire.

Transparent is good, so is vulnerability (though the retreating bit might go under tactics). Resistance to cold works for me.

 

[Cleon]

I'll break this reply up into separate posts, for the sake of clarity.

Since it only uses acid on engulfed victims, I think we can leave this out and just have acid damage in Engulf.

Yes, I was thinking of leaving that out in the final version to, but I wanted to have a line for all of the goop ghoul's special abilities, so we don't forget to discuss any. The only important difference about the acid is that it doesn't dissolve bone, but I'd think that's fairly obvious from the rest of the monster's write-up.

The Ooze traits, Transparency, Immunity to Electricity, Resistance to Cold 10, Vulnerability to Fire, Paralysis, Acid and Blindsight are all pretty standard D&D 3E boiler-plate that I think we can leave as they are.

 

[Cleon]

Attach To Skeleton (Ex)
A goop ghoul can flow over a skeleton and attach itself to the bones like muscles and ligaments, and thus use the skeleton as a means of transportation and attack. It takes one round for a goop ghoul to attach itself to a skeleton in such a way as to be able to manipulate it. A goop ghoul can use any skeleton of a two- or four-legged Medium sized creature, it gains a speed of 30 ft. when using any sort of skeleton.

I like this quite a bit! I did fix a run-on sentence and some spelling, but this seems pretty good. We'll see what Shade thinks

Breaking off a sentence about the Spot DC is fine. haven't spotted any spelling changes, so I don't know what I got wrong (if anything).

I'm not too fond of the first paragraph, it looks a bit clumsy. How about changing it to:

Attach To Skeleton (Ex)
A goop ghoul can attach itself to the bones of a skeleton and act like muscles and ligaments, thereby using the skeleton as a means of transportation and attack. It takes one round for a goop ghoul to flow over a skeleton and attach itself in order to manipulate it. A goop ghoul can use the skeleton of any two- or four-legged Medium sized creature. It gains a speed of 30 ft. regardless of the sort of skeleton.
Goop ghouls can use the skeleton's natural weaponry, such as teeth or claws, or wield simple weapons if the skeleton possesses that ability, but can not use any armor.
A goop ghoul is usually encountered mounted on a skeleton. The stretched-out goop ghoul resembles rotted tissue, so the creature is easily mistaken for an undead skeleton or deteriorated zombie. It requires a DC 15 Spot check to detect the imposture.
As a goop ghoul is not undead, it cannot be turned. However, it is possible for a goop ghoul to latch onto an undead, such as an animated skeleton. In this case, the goop ghoul has no control over the undead's movement and is more or less just along for the ride. It would be possible for a priest to turn the undead, but the goop ghoul would be free to "abandon skeleton" and seek out a new source of transportation (probably the priest).
Although a goop ghoul prefers the use of skeletons above all else, a goop ghoul can, on rare occasions, attach itself to sturdy rodlike objects that allow movement of the sort it is used to. Thus, several large sticks or a pile of swords might be used as a "skeleton" of sorts, good enough for half-normal movement (15 ft.).

 

[Cleon]

Engulf (Ex)

Wait, what's the DC for? Also, the wish restriction seems a little harsh (I know it's in the original). I'd argue that the need for either true resurrection or even resurrection (if a bit of the body is left over) is pretty bad for a 2HD critter.

The DC isn't for anything, I just forgot to delete it after copy-and-pasting the Gelatinous Cube's Engulf power to use as a template for the goop ghoul's version of the power. I'd also left the original monster name 'cube' in the write-up.

I agree the Wish restriction is unwarranted. I'd only left it in the rough cut because, as you said, it was in the original. Resurrection seems more appropriate to me as well. How about this instead:

Engulf (Ex)
A goop ghoul can engulf a paralyzed creature as a standard action, merely by flowing its body over them. It cannot make a slam attack during a round in which it engulfs. Engulfed creatures are subject to the ooze’s paralysis and take 1d8 acid damage per round. If the victim regains movement before being killed, they may throw off the goop ghoul by succeeding in a grapple contest against the goop ghoul. A goop ghoul engulfing a victim can be removed by applying fire. Casting Heal or Cure Disease on its victim also makes a goop ghoul withdraw, though such spells cause no harm to the monster.
A goop ghoul will continue digesting an engulfed victim's flesh until their skeleton has been picked clean. A being dissolved in this fashion cannot be brought back to life by Raise Dead, a more powerful spell such as Resurrection or Wish is required, though the skeleton is fit for use with an Animate Dead spell.

Should we say how long it takes for a goop ghoul to strip the flesh of a skeleton - is it all over in a round or does the process take several minutes?

 

[Cleon]

Split (Ex)
A normal-sized goop ghoul will double in size by completely devouring the flesh of an average Medium-sized creature and be ready to split into two normal-sized goop ghouls, a process that takes only one round. Whichever of the two is closest to the freshly stripped skeleton will generally claim it for movement purposes.
Larger creatures can provide enough flesh for goop ghouls to split more than once - it requires 150-200 lbs of flesh for a goop ghoul to reproduce, so a 600 pound ogre's corpse would typically provide enough flesh to spawn three goop ghouls.
A goop ghoul which absorbs 75-150 pounds of flesh will grow large enough to become a 3 HD monster, but is not big enough to reproduce.

Maybe we can put the poundage requirements in the flavor text? In that case, we've done some split SAs before. Basically, we need to specify how many HD the goop ghoul needs and how it splits them up.

Here's one we did before (ignore all the stuff about max hp; that was specific to the critter in question):
Split (Ex): A full healed grave watcher of 10 or more HD can split into two grave watchers. The two new grave watchers may have any combination of HD that totals to the HD of the original grave watcher, but each must have at least 5 HD. Each new grave watcher has maximum hit points for its Hit Dice. This process takes 4 rounds, during which the grave watcher may take no other actions.

Okay, I'll need to think about this for a bit. As I indicated in the stat-block write up I assumed that a 4 HD goop ghoul splits into two 2 HD ghouls. My first though is adding to the Engulf text a note that it gains Hit Dice after dissolving victims - say 1 HD for a Small creature, 2 HD for a Medium, 4 for a Large? - then adapt the 'Split' power you suggested to a 4 or more HD creature that takes 1 round to split.

I think I'll leave it at that for today, hopefully well get further tomorrow.

 

[Shade]

Added to Homebrews.

Most of those abilities look great!

A few things...

I'd argue that the need for either true resurrection or even resurrection (if a bit of the body is left over) is pretty bad for a 2HD critter.

I agree. Let's drop that bit altogether, as nothing really indicates that its acid is any more potent than other oozes, which don't impose such restrictions. Additionally, the spells themselves indicate what needs to be left, and a skeleton is usually more than enough for restorative spells.

Okay, I'll need to think about this for a bit. As I indicated in the stat-block write up I assumed that a 4 HD goop ghoul splits into two 2 HD ghouls. My first though is adding to the Engulf text a note that it gains Hit Dice after dissolving victims - say 1 HD for a Small creature, 2 HD for a Medium, 4 for a Large? - then adapt the 'Split' power you suggested to a 4 or more HD creature that takes 1 round to split.

I think the Hit Die gain mechanic makes the most sense, but let's slow it a bit. Maybe 1 Medium creature consumed = 1 HD, a Large or larger = 2 HD, and Small or smaller = 1/2 HD?

 

[Cleon]

I think the Hit Die gain mechanic makes the most sense, but let's slow it a bit. Maybe 1 Medium creature consumed = 1 HD, a Large or larger = 2 HD, and Small or smaller = 1/2 HD?

I set it at Medium = 2 HD because the original write-up indicates a regular 2-HD ooze that eats a man-sized victim will double in size and reproduce. Setting it as Medium = 1 HD would mean a goop ghoul would have to eat two humans before splitting.