Spectres and Healing

[Dimwhit]

OK, here is what happened at our last gaming session. Let's see if someone out there has an answer.

We're taking on a group of Spectres, undead creatures who are incorporeal. We all have a 50% miss chance because they're incorporeal, assuming we're using magic. Now, force effects, such as Magic Missle or Ghost Touch weapon, don't suffer the 50% miss chance vs. incorporeal creatures (DMG 78). Our Cleric turned two of them. The assumtion was that turning does not suffer the 50% miss chance, since it's not an attack. It is, however, considered positive energy. So, our Cleric then cast Healing Circle, which healed us and damaged the Spectres. Healing Circle, like Turning, is positive energy. It was ruled, however, that the 50% failure chance would apply to the Healing Circle.

Is that correct? I suspect it is, but what's the explanation? Does positive energy work differently with Turning than it does with Healing Circle? Or, should a spell that specifically affects undead by definition bypass the 50% failure chance? I'm thinking that perhaps the energy for Healing Cirlce is considered an attack, thus the failure, while the energy for Turning is simply a frightening presence of sorts for the undead?

Did we make the right call?

 

[Crothian]

I think the 50% miss chance is with physical attacks only. So, spells that don't need an attack roll ignore the 50% miss chance.

 

[Dimwhit]

It says under Spectre that you need a +1 or better magic weapon, or magic, to hit, with a 50% miss chance to ignore any damage from a corporeal source. We inferred that this implies any corporeal source, spells and physical weapons included. A fireball, for example, is still a corporeal source, isn't it? Or maybe not, I'm really not sure at this point.

 

[Magus_Jerel]

part right - part wrong

Healing circle is a corporeal "burst emanation" - like fireball. Fireball suffers the 50% miss chance - therefore so will healing circle.

as far as turning... you have another problem.

page 139 phb
Turning undead is a supernatural ability that a cleric can perfomr as a standard action. It does not provoke an attack of opportunity. You must present your holy symbol to turn undead. Turning is considered an attack

Turning can miss that which is incorporeal:

ergo - Turning suffers the 50 miss chance, but if you "miss" an incorporeal creature - it DOES NOT count against the HD that you could turn. At the particular moment that the cleric attempted to turn - that incorporeal creature was not fully on the material plane. Thus - it isn't "there" to be affected by the turning attempt - and the next undead creature farther that would be affected by the "turning attempt" - is turned or not turned, based on it's status as corporeal or not at the moment of the attempt.

What you did "wrong" was state that turning didn't have a chance to miss - because it "wasn't an attack.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

I think the 50% miss chance is with physical attacks only. So, spells that don't need an attack roll ignore the 50% miss chance.

This is incorrect. The 50% miss chance applies to spells, spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities that have a corporeal source, except for force effects like magic missile spells, spiritual weapon spells, ghost touch weapons, etc.

 

[Henrix]

Positive energy isn't corporeal.
They should get a save for half damage, though.

And, no Magus, Turning isn't a corporeal attack, either.

Check the definition of incorporeal in the DMG.

 

[Magus_Jerel]

yep - fireball is still a corporeal source of damage - albeit an energy form.

see pg 278 PHB - definition - incorporeal:

relevant sentence -
Even when struck by spells, magical effects, or magic weapons, they have a 50% chance to ignore any damage from a corporeal source.

you could have a +5 holy disruption weapon - they still have a 50% miss chance.

This is why ghost touching one's magic weapon is a very very good idea.

 

[Magus_Jerel]

Check the definition of incorporeal in the DMG.

which is? - pg 78 DMG discusses the condition involved...

it contains the following text

- Even when strukc by magic or magic weapons, an incorporeal creature has a 50% chance to ignore any damage from a corporeal source.

I'll call turning - a supernatural ability "magical" in nature. - especially given the PHB definition...