Spell Idea-Blasting many undead (1 more Judge Vote needed!)

jaker2003

Explorer
Okay, I want to work out any mechanical issues with the spell (improper level, range, etc.) and find a better name. Ultimately seeking LEW approval for spell research.

[sblock=Original Version]
Storm of Positive Energy
Necromancy
Level: Clr 3, Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 swift action
Range: Personal, Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: Multiple Rays
Duration: 1 round/2 levels (D)
Spell Resistance: See text.

For the duration of this spell, you may fire rays of positive energy at nearby targets as the disrupt undead spell. You may use a full attack action to fire a single ray at each target within range every round. A struck undead creature takes 1d6 damage.
A struck creature may negate the ray with its Spell Resistance. You can attack a maximum number of individual targets equal to your caster level.


A cleric could get this spell at 5th level, striking up to 5 targets within 35 ft. each round, for up to 2 rounds. The damage impact decreases when used against undead with Fast Healing. It seems to be a poor alternative to turning.
Maxed out at 20th level, striking up to 20 undead targets within 75 ft. each round, for up to 1 minute (10 rounds).

Compare to Arrow Storm from Complete Adventurer. That is a Ranger 4 spell that allows you to fire an arrow at a number of targets equal to your character level within the bow’s first range increment, but it only lasts one round.[/sblock]
Current Version in Post 45
 
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Wik

Visitor
Seems kinda weak, to me. I'd rather see an Area-Effect undead blast spell that inflicts 1d8 damage a level to all undead in the region. Or, better yet, 1d6 damage to all undead per caster level, or 1 hit point of healing to all non-undead (PC or enemy) in the area of effect. Just to make it interesting.
 

Bront

The man with the probe
I'd rather it allow you to make an attack equivilent to Disrupt Undead for a number of rounds equal to your level. They're ranged touch attacks, and full attacks should get the extra itterative attack.

Let's see if I just can't write it out.

Storm of Positive Energy
Necromancy
Level: Clr 3, Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 swift action
Range: Personal, Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: Multiple Rays
Duration: 1 round/ level (D)
Spell Resistance: See text.

For the duration of this spell, you may fire rays of positive energy at nearby targets as the disrupt undead spell as an attack action.

See, that's simpler, still useful, and doesn't result in 20 attack and damage rolls per round at high levels. Might be better as a Clr 2, Sor/Wiz 3 this way though.
 

jaker2003

Explorer
Bront said:
I'd rather it allow you to make an attack equivilent to Disrupt Undead for a number of rounds equal to your level. They're ranged touch attacks, and full attacks should get the extra itterative attack.
Maybe your right; maybe this is better.

Storm of Positive Energy
Necromancy
Level: Clr 2, Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 swift action
Range: Personal, Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: Multiple Rays
Duration: 1 round/ level (D)
Spell Resistance: See text.
For the duration of this spell, you may fire rays of positive energy at nearby targets as the disrupt undead spell as an attack action.

Can I talk anyone into bonus damage based on CL?
I was just going for a way to wail on undead for cheap, but maybe Wik's got an idea with limited healing?

Wik: I think you're looking for the Sunburst spell.
 
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jaker2003

Explorer
Wait a minute, I just found a precedent! produce flame
That's a Drd 1, Fire 2 spell with a duration of 1 min./level (D), and is (other than the fire damage) a near match with Bront's proposed changes.
Okay, I'm going to try to restructure this to fit wtih the precedent.

Storm of Positive Energy
Necromancy
Level: Clr 2, Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 swift action
Range: Personal, Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: Multiple Rays
Duration: 1 min./ level (D)
Spell Resistance: Yes.
Your hands are enveloped in a soft glow that provides illumination as a torch. For the duration of this spell, you may fire rays of positive energy at nearby targets as an attack action. Each ray deals damage to undead equal to 1d6 +1 point per caster level (maximum +5). Each attack you make reduces the remaining duration by 1 minute. If an attack reduces the remaining duration to 0 minutes or less, the spell ends after the attack resolves.

I think this is much better, but there are a few issues left with this version:
  • I still think there may be a better name for it.
  • The range is still Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels), while the produce flame spell had a range of 120 ft.
  • This version deals a type of damage that can't be countered, unlike the fire damage of the precedent spell; though this may be countered by the higher spell level and the fact that it ignores non-undead targets.
 
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Wik

Visitor
Actually, I was thinking of the 4th level Clerical attack spell - Flame Strike, I think. 1d6 a level, small area of effect. An undead-only spell, fairly small area of effect (30' diameter?), that also has limited healing, would be very "clerical" to me.

While a spell that has a bunch of ray effects would be great, and probably balanced, I just don't like the idea of "okay, roll ten dice" each round. Gah. It's really one of those spells that would take up a lot of game time to resolve without offering a huge amount of benefit, or one of those spells that exists solely to be swapped out for healing.

There's also the fact that clerics frequently have one round to cast an offensive spell; by the time they're casting 4th level spells, though, they don't often have TWO rounds to be casting spells. So, any spell that requires a cleric to spend an action on multiple turns in a combat... probably isn't gonna be used too often. (which is an argument FOR your produce flame damage bonus, btw)

At least an AoE spell that can be resolved and done in one round will be of more use to a clerical caster.
 

Bront

The man with the probe
You could change the range to 120, though it might be better at it's current incarnation and as a lower level spell even.

The druid version is level one, and this is positive energy, not fire, so it only hurts undead.
 

Wik

Visitor
Except you can cast his spell as a swift action.

Really, though, I think that'd be fine - this spell is still pretty weak as written. And I doubt a cleric would ever use it, simply because they have more pressing concerns than ANY combat spell that requires actions over multiple rounds.
 
I think the spell is fine in the new Produce Flame version. As a Swift spell, I was afraid for a moment that it might overpower Searing Light (which is one level higher), but it looks like it wouldn't--it can do more damage than SL, but it takes more actions.
 

Creamsteak

Visitor
Here's a pass. Name comes from the 6 towers. I'm not positive if it should be Necromancy, or an evocation (it's somewhat like a light evocation). By making it a light evocation rather than a Necromancy spell, it can be used to counter a darkness spell of an equal or lower level. I would consider that an interesting potential use.

Light of the North Tower
Evocation [Light]
Level: Clr 2, Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 0 ft.
Effect: Light in your palm
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

A soft glow appears in your open hand shedding bright light in a 20-foot radius and dim light for an additional 20 feet.

In addition to providing illumination, you can direct rays of light against undead. You can project these rays up to 120 feet by making a ranged touch attack. If the ray hits an undead creature, it deals damage equal to 1d6 +1 point per caster level (maximum +5). Each attack you make reduces the remaining duration by 1 minute. If an attack reduces the remaining duration to 0 minutes or less, the spell ends after the attack resolves.

A light spell (one with the light descriptor) counters and dispels a darkness spell (one with the darkness descriptor) of an equal or lower level.
 
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Wik

Visitor
Give it a swift casting time (so you can attack the same round you cast the spell!) and I think it'll be fine. Still not a huge fan of it, for the reasons I mentioned, but still. It could work.
 

Creamsteak

Visitor
I'm not a fan of introducing the swift action casting time to it. If it needs to be a little stronger you could try:

Buffing up the duration to 10 min/level and of course increasing the cost to 10 min/shot. This increases its utility as a "light" primarily. Also note that increasing the duration is probably even better than the swift action casting time because it accentuates the spell as a preparedness buff, not a combat manuever.

Increasing the max bonus damage to 10 or changing the base damage to 2d6 (or both).

Or, of course, reducing the spell level.

As of right now I would still say it's fine for a 2nd level spell, even if a little weak.
 
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Dalamar

Explorer
Not sure about the power of the spell, but shouldn't there be some note about the spell healing or not living creatures as it is dealing with positive energy?
 

Creamsteak

Visitor
Just a stray thought here.

Hasted, rapid shot, divine power, 7th level cleric... 14 dex... does all of that stack? I'm not positive, but I guess so. Assumed undead target with a touch AC of 11 for now.



+6/+6/+6/+1 ranged touch, 1d6+5 each. Assuming 75% hit on +6, 50% hit on +1, Average damage 38.25 damage on a round.

Searing light +8 (85%) for 7d6 against undead. Average damage 20.825 per round.



If the spell is also a swift action, the first bit can be repeated. The cleric fires his volley this round, keeps 3 charges for next round. Next round, he fires 3, then as a swift action casts again, and fires 1 more (since you can use a swift action in between attacks). Then the next round he does 4. etc. Also, against a slightly higher AC the mutliple attacks lose slightly more damage I believe. Oh, and of course point blank shot could increase the damage in some random cases.

It's not anything too rediculous (since you are throwing a 4th level spell, a feat, and a buff coming from a wizard, bard, or potion), but I'm just stressing one of my concerns if you want it to be a 2nd level cleric swift action spell.
 
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Creamsteak

Visitor
Dalamar said:
Not sure about the power of the spell, but shouldn't there be some note about the spell healing or not living creatures as it is dealing with positive energy?
The text on disrupt undead doesn't have such a line, though I do believe it may be worth pointing out. I'll change my own version to say rays of light instead of "rays of positive energy."
 

jaker2003

Explorer
Creamsteak said:
Light of the North Tower
Evocation [Light]
Level: Clr 2, Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 swift action
Range: 0 ft.
Effect: Light in your palm
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

A soft glow appears in your open hand shedding bright light in a 20-foot radius and dim light for an additional 20 feet.
In addition to providing illumination, you can direct rays of light against undead. You can project these rays up to 120 feet by making a ranged touch attack. If the ray hits an undead creature, it deals damage equal to 1d6 +1 point per caster level (maximum +5). Each attack you make reduces the remaining duration by 1 minute. If an attack reduces the remaining duration to 0 minutes or less, the spell ends after the attack resolves.
A light spell (one with the light descriptor) counters and dispels a darkness spell (one with the darkness descriptor) of an equal or lower level.
This looks real nice, and I was thinking about the [light] idea before going to sleep last night.
This may still be weak, it's a Clr2 spell, and the produce flame precedent is a Drd1; How about expanding its utiliity with limited healing? Something like, cure damage with a touch, expending 1 minute of the duration. The damage healed could be 1 +1 point per 2 Caster Levels (maximum +5 @ CL10) This might boost it up to lvl2 without overshadowing the cure spells. That's basically doing to the cure minor wounds spell what we did to the disrupt undead spell.

Thoughts?
 

Creamsteak

Visitor
Allowing it as a heal has the concerns that it should be conjuration [healing], and brings in an extra layer of complexity to evaluating circumstances. Also, consider that healing on an attack roll mechanic is somewhat odd. It creates a strange case where a cleric with more attacks heals more. Further, the current version is on the Sor/Wiz spell list (because it originally was taken from disrupt undead) and would give them access to healing (which they don't normally have).

Produce flame is a 2nd level Cleric spell already, if you have the fire domain. This spell should probably be pretty comparable to that. If we had a light domain, I would say this is a 2nd level light domain spell, mirroring produce flame in fire. I also have some concerns now with this spell being on the Sor/Wiz list. If anything the next class to get it (after cleric) would be a paladin.
 
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If it's staying on the Wiz list, it definitely should not be healing. Also, even 1 point +1 per two caster levels (maximum +5) is massively massively better than Cure Moderate Wounds if you have time and morbidly overpowered (This heals up to 120 HP at high level! Cripes, it's almost as good as Heal).
 

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