D&D 5E Spellcaster/Warrior Imbalances Discussion

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[nswanson27]

I think the issue with high-level spellcasting is that it leads to ever-more options to cleverly "solve" the fight without the fight. It's both cool but hard to balance against.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I think magic is too prevalent and too weak. Which is weird, but hear me out.

Not weird at all, really. Every class uses magic, full casters use a lot of it, and even if they run out, have cantrips. OT1H, that means casters always 'feel magical' in the sense that they're not falling back to fighting with weapons like the rubes. OTOH, it means magic is just another dependable/readily-available tool with which to solve problems, it's magical in the sense of supernatural, but mundane in the sense of common/every-day.

The one thing I don't like about 5e is that I have yet to see a round go by without someone, at the least, casting a cantrip. Because that's the default "do damage" for caster now. So the good news is that low-level magic is great!

Yep. If magic were comparatively rare among PC classes and in the setting, that'd be fine, for instance.

But the bad news is that it takes away from higher-level magic. High level damage spells should be spectacular and uncommon.

An at-will baseline doesn't preclude that, even if the game were being strictly balanced on the numbers. And, I'm not so sure I agree that slot-using damage spells aren't spectacular - blowing up a whole encounter is pretty spectacular. They may not be uncommon enough, in the sense of there being too many slots floating around out there.
Powering up spells but having fewer of them (fewer spell slots, in total, than likely encounters in a day, for instance) would be one way to get where it sounds like you want to go.

In essence, the constant scaling of certain lower-level spells means that higher-level damage spells just aren't efficacious or reliable. Magic is both common, and, TBH, somewhat boring.

Neither as common (in the sense of ordinary/non-magical) nor as boring as the alternative, certainly. ;P

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Krachek]

I play a wizard evoker in a party where there is also a Fighter battle master, from level 5 to 11.

I never have the chance to blow an encounter with fireball. Monster have usually too much hit points.
Caster defentivly need the constant at will damage of martial classes.

Fighter can be useful in any part of the game. Spell slot are a precious resources. Using spell is always last resort solution.
Fighter are archetypal leaders. Common folks trust them more than spell caster. It can give good opportunity to role play.

And again we are playing a role playing game. Fighter is a role, If your character is well defined, you will able to have fun and opportunity when others players shine. If you always compare who have done damage, solve problems, you will be sad.

 

[Phazonfish]

Personally I like Sharpshooter and Great Weapon Master for this reason. Some people claim they give out too much damage, but the way I see it is if casters get to do damage and utility, they can at least give martial classes mega-damage.

 

[Shiroiken]

My experience has been that with one notable exception (ranger), all of the classes are good and offer something solid to the game. Classes don't have to provide specific type of abilities to be useful, and everyone can assist in some way. The skills, tools, and background abilities allow for a lot of utility, regardless of class.

I agree with [MENTION=6799753]lowkey13[/MENTION] about cantrips, and dislike scaling cantrips. I would rather have seen level 1 spells become cantrips at about level 8, and level 2 spells become cantrips at level 15. That way cantrips are still weak, but get replaced by better spells. Obviously this would radically change things, but I think it could have been done.

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

About cantrips, I'm strongly leaning toward limiting the number of cantrips per day to something like 5 or 6 for full casters. Maybe start off at 4 per day and scale to 6 at high levels...

 

[mellored]

. I would rather have seen level 1 spells become cantrips at about level 8, and level 2 spells become cantrips at level 15. That way cantrips are still weak, but get replaced by better spells. Obviously this would radically change things, but I think it could have been done.

I agree.

But also, high level spells should be rarer. A meteor swarm, wish, or earthquake shouldn't be things you can do every day. They should be things done once a year, possibly taking several casters working together to pull off.

 

[Zardnaar]

But what happens when the meta game tells savvy players that a Bard, Cleric, Druid, Wizard party makes the best party and everyone is throwing around magic?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A party like that is gonna suck at dealing damage.

Most spellcasters not very good at damage.