D&D 5E Spellcasters and Balance in 5e: A Poll

[Don Durito]

I got the feeling he was talking from a PC point of view trying to stop the BBEG.

Well yeah. But I think in general it's a good principle to say that if you're not ok with an NPC potentially doing it to a PC, then it probably shouldn't work the other way either.

 

[Stalker0]

But really, how do you think the players would react if they go to cast a spell and you say "sorry, you passive perception wasn't high enough to spot your spell components being stolen"?

About the same as if I catch the wizard alone and have an assassin start to target them.

Just like pretty much anything the DM can do, its all about frequency. Taking a spellcasters pouch away creates a spicy combat moment, suddenly the player has to really think about what they are going to do, and the pressure is on. That can make a very memorable encounter.

But if you do it often....yeah your just a dickish DM at that point.

 

[FrogReaver]

I now quote the PH on sleight of hand.

"The GM might also call for a Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) check to determine whether you can lift a coin purse off another person"

It always depends on the specific circumstances. Let's say I wanted to a backflip, summersault 3 times in the air and lift a coin purse off someone that had it securely fastened to their belt. Is that a slight of hand or acrobatics? I'm certainly not asking for 2 checks. I'll pick the more difficult of the 2 checks and adjust the DC based on the specifics. Success and you do all that. Failure and I'll decide what went wrong.

Now its still a DMs call of course, and personally in combat I would at minimum make it disadvantage....but I don't think its a "lenient ruling" to allow a rogue to grab a caster's spell component pouch with some kind of check. There is a reason they are called "cut purses"

I'm sure you agree that it depends on the specific circumstances - like how it's attached to the belt.

3 rounds has been my experience even in my frequent 1 encounter per day sessions. The harder fight is more than balanced by the more firepower the party throws at it.

I think it depends on how hard the encounter is. Characters can dish out alot and take alot when they push all their resources in that direction. But knowing that means you can create much harder encounters than even what the game calls deadly. Encounters like these tend to take longer to complete.

 

[ECMO3]

I think stealing a component pouch is really a bit of a dick move, as we all mostly ignore the component thing because it's a drag.

If you actually have your players buying bat guano from the market than it's different.

But really, how do you think the players would react if they go to cast a spell and you say "sorry, you passive perception wasn't high enough to spot your spell components being stolen"?

A component pouch contains all the components needed to cast a spell. You do need to buy the pouch, you don't need to buy the bat guano because it is already in there. If you have the pouch you have all of them.

My DM absolutely requires either a pouch or a focus and it is important for balance to keep track of due to the action economy and handiness. If you are holding a focus, that hand is occupied. If you have a pouch, your hand is not occupied, but drawing out the component does take your free action. You can't do that and then draw a dagger too, you can't stow a dagger and then draw out a component. While the components themselves are for flavor only, the rules on using them are an important aspect of class balance and should not be ignored IMO.

I don't think it is a dick move at all. It is a creative move which is clearly within the rules, would be rewarded if I was DM and was rewarded by my DM the only time I tried it. That kind of thing is what it is there for and what it is intended for and creativity should not be punished.

As far as how would I feel - I had the same character nerfed by not having components because they were taken and I spent two sessions scrounging in the dungeon until I got to civilization and could buy components again. It is part of the game the only spells I could cast without components was light and shield. I could not even cast the message cantrip.

I still had fun, and I went through a lot to scrounge. We killed an enemy and cut a piece of his armor off to cast mage armor. When we came across a kitchen I asked if there was any butter or pork fat so I could cast grease.

I tell you what, I felt a lot better about that then I did about my character walking over a trap after I searched and going to 0 hps when we were pretty much out of healing in the party.

 

[FrogReaver]

Well yeah. But I think in general it's a good principle to say that if you're not ok with an NPC potentially doing it a PC, then it probably shouldn't work the other way either.

I'm okay with killing lots of Orcs. Does that means Orcs should kill me lots of times?

 

[CleverNickName]

Of course, nothing says you can't carry more than one spell component pouch...

 

[FrogReaver]

Of course, nothing says you can't carry more than one spell component pouch...

SHAZAM!

 

[ECMO3]

I'm sure you agree that it depends on the specific circumstances - like how it's attached to the belt.

How much detail do you put into how a component pouch is attached to a characters belt when building an encounter? It does not specify in the description of most spell casting monsters nor in any published module with spellcasters.

I think the only way you would put much effort into planning this out ahead of time is if you had a character that you know wanted to do something that was allowed and you did not want it to happen.

Unless you detailed the arrangement of his belt and pouch ahead of time then your decision is arbitrary and made on the fly. In that case, logically you are purposely eliminating player agency in your game and making them adhere to your prefered play style. You want to make the conditions such that it is impossible for him to do something doable by his subclass for what reason?

 

[FrogReaver]

How much detail do you put into how a component pouch is attached to a characters belt when building an encounter? It does not specify in the description of most spell casting monsters nor in any published module with spellcasters.

I think the only way you would put much effort into planning this out ahead of time is if you had a character that you know wanted to do something that was allowed and you did not want it to happen.

Unless you detailed the arrangement of his belt and pouch ahead of time then your decision is arbitrary and made on the fly. In that case, logically you are purposely eliminating player agency in your game and making them adhere to your prefered play style. You want to make the conditions such that it is impossible for him to do something doable by his subclass for what reason?

Told ya I was bowing out of this with you. I’m sure someone else will explain for me.

 

[ECMO3]

Of course, nothing says you can't carry more than one spell component pouch...

Absolutlely. Or a pouch and a focus, which would be more common I think.

But I do think this is something that would be detailed ahead of time in the characters loot:

The mage has on his person 14sp, a dagger, a wand of lighting the keys to a chest (in his bedroom) and two component pouches. I don't think this is a decision you make on the fly after the Rogue cleverly nerfs your BBEG.