Spiked Chain, Enlarge Person, and Whirlwind Attack

[Philodendron]

I'm late to the party, so this might have been discussed before, but...

Is it correct that, wielding a spiked chain, as a medium character who has been Enlarge Person'ed to large, with Whirlwind Attack, you could attack every single creature within four squares at your full attack bonus as a full round attack?

Reasoning:
Spiked chain has reach, but also allows attacks against adjacent foes.
With enlarge person to large size, reach is doubled to 20'.
With whirlwind attack, you can attack every opponent you can reach at full BAB.

(throw in combat reflexes and you potentially add at least two AoO's at full BAB too!?)

 

[moritheil]

With enlarge person to large size, reach is doubled to 20'.

Reach adds +5' rather than doubling.

 

[Philodendron]

Thanks for the reply.

From the SRD:
"Most reach weapons double the wielder’s natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away" (emphasis mine)

This is why I thought reach would extend to 20' away. What am I missing?

 

[jaelis]

Is it correct that, wielding a spiked chain, as a medium character who has been Enlarge Person'ed to large, with Whirlwind Attack, you could attack every single creature within four squares at your full attack bonus as a full round attack?

Yes. Don't forget about cover though, if you're really in a crowd.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Thanks for the reply.

From the SRD:
"Most reach weapons double the wielder’s natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away" (emphasis mine)

This is why I thought reach would extend to 20' away. What am I missing?

You're correct that the spiked chain will reach 20 feet away.

Strictly as written, however, it will not reach 10 feet away. As a Large creature with a reach weapon, you can strike creatures 15 or 20 feet away. Since you're wielding a spiked chain, you can also strike adjacent creatures. This means that you have 5, 15, and 20 covered, but not 10.

-Hyp.

 

[Philodendron]

You're correct that the spiked chain will reach 20 feet away.

Strictly as written, however, it will not reach 10 feet away. As a Large creature with a reach weapon, you can strike creatures 15 or 20 feet away. Since you're wielding a spiked chain, you can also strike adjacent creatures. This means that you have 5, 15, and 20 covered, but not 10.

-Hyp.

I see what you mean about exactly how it's written.

I guess I thought that the implication was that you can hit creatures inside of your 10' reach (i.e., adjacent) with the spiked chain - so that when your reach doubles to 15-20', you can still hit creatures inside that reach (5-10'). Then I'm arguing that the rules say "adjacent" as shorthand for "closer than your reach".

Anyone else care to share their interpretation?

 

[moritheil]

Ack, sorry, it's been a little while since I played a reach character. You're right. But there is a hole in your area of coverage - not that it matters in 99% of situations.

Then I'm arguing that the rules say "adjacent" as shorthand for "closer than your reach".

Anyone else care to share their interpretation?

Adjacent means "in a square next to you."

 

[frankthedm]

You're correct that the spiked chain will reach 20 feet away.

Strictly as written, however, it will not reach 10 feet away. As a Large creature with a reach weapon, you can strike creatures 15 or 20 feet away. Since you're wielding a spiked chain, you can also strike adjacent creatures. This means that you have 5, 15, and 20 covered, but not 10.

Here is a diagram of hypes reading…

While what Hype states is true, IMHO a DM who dislikes the spiked chain so much to actually enforce such a technical reading is better off banning the weapon form his game. An action I strongly recommend

Here is what is generally accepted as the 20’ reach of an enlarged spiked chain user.

Also when makng Melee attacks against those who are not adjacent to you, you determine cover as a ranged weapon. So good placement can bone you out of a few AoOs.

Many other questions were answered in this thread....

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=193205

 

[moritheil]

Here is what is generally accepted as the 20’ reach of an enlarged spiked chain user.

Many DMs I've played with have used the "gap in coverage" interpretation of the spiked chain. I wouldn't call full coverage "generally accepted."

 

[mvincent]

Many DMs I've played with have used the "gap in coverage" interpretation

How do they rationally explain that?

I wouldn't call full coverage "generally accepted."

I definitely would've, but the literalism on this board often surprises me. Has there been a poll on this one yet? What percentage would qualify for "generally accepted"?

a DM who dislikes the spiked chain so much to actually enforce such a technical reading is better off banning the weapon form his game. An action I strongly recommend

Agreed.

For the OP: yeah, enlarged spiked chain wielder = 50' wide circle o' death. It's a favorite for trip builds too, but Frank's cascade is a decent counter.