Spiked Chain: The Ultimate Defenders Wep or Sir Not Appearing in the Edition?
- Thread starter mach1.9pants
- Start date
broghammerj
Explorer
This thread makes me laugh...I think back to an NPC we created to increase the numbers of PCs in the group. He was an Arabian themed rogue who was a whip specialist (think of the Arabian guy that Indiana Jones shoots with the giant scimitar....but also add a whip). After one session we realized the whip sort of sucked. We considered convertiing to a spiked chain but everyone agreed the idea of a spiked chain would be wonky considering his thematic background. So in the end a lot of people got stabbed with a scimitar. 
Anyways, it would be "cooler" to make the whip a better weapon and nix the spiked chain. I remember all sorts of attempts to do so by adding a bladed tip, etc. They became pretty over the top and started to reach the threshold for suspension of belief.
Anyways, it would be "cooler" to make the whip a better weapon and nix the spiked chain. I remember all sorts of attempts to do so by adding a bladed tip, etc. They became pretty over the top and started to reach the threshold for suspension of belief.
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
IMC, the spiked chain piggybacked the whip. Rather than a fexible length of leather, it was a flexible length of spiked metal with a scything tip.
Screw that 1d3 subdual damage if you're not wearing armor noise!
Rechan said:
I dislike the spiked chain. IMO it is neither cool, nor visually appealing. That said, it is a popular choice among players and should remain in the PHB for that reason.
The last time I used a miniature with a spiked chain, my party groaned. But I had removed the reach from it and the NPC wasn't too overbalanced with it.
The real problem is the combination of increased size, reach and improved trip. IMO the real culprit is the improved trip feat. It gives a +4 on trip checks and a free attack on a downed opponent. Since trip checks do not include BAB (a serious flaw IMO), low level characters have little trouble tripping even high level opponents. Combine this with the free attack, the AoO when the tripee goes to stand and the penalties involved in being prone and you have a feat that is entirely too good.
broghammerj
Explorer
Kamikaze Midget said:
I wasn't sure what you meant by screw the subdual damage.....if that was in support of the spiked chain or in support of the whip (and agianst its ridiculous penalities) I went back to re-read the posts and realized your a spiked chain supportor.
Although I am not a spike chain hater (I love your Knights of the Round Table visualization) I thought the whip got the shaft. Why spend an exotic weapon feat to take a weapon that allows AoO, does little damage, and no damage against armor when you can have the spiked chain.
To fix the whip you need to drop the AoO, drop the exotic weapons requirement, give it some sort of special choke attack that is more damaging (on a critical ?), and drop the armor rule. It would be different than the chain by having a choke attack, poor baseilne damage, and longer reach. I would consider keeping the not effective against armor rule if the feat requirement were dropped.
Plane Sailing said:
The spiked chain could be a normal weapon and don't have reach anymore. It only threatens 5ft. squares around the wielder, but as an immediate action the wielder could apply 'reach' to his attack only.
With a feat or talent the character could be allowed to use an immediate action to threaten all 5ft. and 10ft. squares around him for 1 round, as a defensive stance. The character rotates the spiked chain like crazy around him.
Lord Zardoz
Explorer
CleverNickName said:I guess I am a "chain hater," because I cringe every time a player buys one. I don't blame them; it is the only reach weapon that can also threaten an adjacent foe, it is finesse-able, you can trip with it, you get a disarm bonus with it. It's munch-tastic.
The problem I have is the endless dice-rolling that comes with the spiked chain...a fighter with the proper build can slow the game down quite a bit, thanks to that huge threatened area and double-weapon stuff. If you are unfortunate enough to have two or three characters in your party armed with this weapon, you are going to be pulling your hair out by the time they get to mid level.
But it looks like they are trying to fix the endless dice rolling with regard to this weapon. Attacks of opportunity are either gone or seriously reduced, and I seem to recall some mention of how a character's number of attacks per round does not increase with level. This goes a long way to making the spiked chain less annoying to me.
Otherwise, I'm afraid I'm going to have to send in the oozes and rust monsters.![:]](http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png "Devious :]")
For the complaints, I agree totally. If the Spiked Chain was not the only weapon to threaten near and far spaces, or did not also have the bonus to Disarm and trip and able to finesse, I would also not mind so much. It has never come up in games I have ran, however.
But jumping right to rust monsters and oozes? I think you are overlooking some of the better counter tactics.
1) Archery at Range:
You cannot capitalize on mass AoO when everyone is staying about 80 or so feet back and shooting at you a whole lot.
2) Mounted Archery: As above, but you also take away the ability of the Chain user to close into melee. This is even meaner if you have flying mounts and the chain user cannot fly.
3) Reach Weapons: No AoO for closing into range to use a Halberd.
4) Sunder: It is a metal weapon, but for opponents likely to use Sunder, that should not be an issue.
5) Spring Attack: You do not provoke movement AoO, which is what the majority of Spiked Chain builds rely on.
END COMMUNICATION
mach1.9pants
Hero
Ditto, and my player does as well. He likes the look of the SC. And, as a previous poster said, the only way he can really hold his own with the wiz and codzilla. Hopefully 4E will fix that, and his SC user will still be viablekennew142 said:
