I never quite grasped the spiked chain. A chain would have been somewhat fine (if it didn't do all things at once), but the spikes just made it silly. Up there with the dire flail in the category of 'things that are just ridiculous'. My mental image of a spiked chain wielder is a guy covered in band-aids, because he keeps poking himself.
Spiked Chain: The Ultimate Defenders Wep or Sir Not Appearing in the Edition?
- Thread starter mach1.9pants
- Start date
mach1.9pants
Hero
I ignore the pictures in the PHB for realism, you have to. The armour drawings are ridiculous. You cannot use PHB drawings as a reason for not having a weapon in your campaign, the illustrations are awful- realism wise. Looking at the tiefling weps in R&C it is going to be even worse in 4E. None of their blades would last one impact on another weapon! Same with the sp chain. A spiked chain, to me, is a length of chain with weighted spiky metal bits on the end. Like a long morning star flail without a handle.Voss said:
Now if you take the absolutely rubbish weapon and armour drawings in the PHB out of the equation there is no reason that wielder would damage themselves any more than some one using a morning star flail.
I never had a problem with the spied chain balance wise, I thought it was ugly in most illustrations, but I didn't find it imbalanced at all. A bit of a pain to run all the AoOs but overall not a better weapon than most. Now improved trip in 3.5 was imbalanced, in 3e it was balanced but kind of lame since as in 3.5 the skill component was not there, it should of been called improved muscle some one to the floor, because mechanically it sure didn't feel like a trip. If you are running a humanoid-centric opposition in your campaign it may be unbalanced because its strong suit is showing up all the time. Still people were devastating with more damage focussed weapons, though I did stick to 3e in many regards including improved crit, and keen stacking.
Unkabear
First Post
I have difficulty with people telling me that they were not historically accurate. Most of the weapons in the darn PHB were not historically accurate, or at least in use at the same time. Let alone allowing Magic in a system as it does not exist. Someone who has difficulty suspending their belief enough to allow a spiked chain will more than happily allow someone to cast a fireball?
But that aside the scimitar, rapier ect are terrible representations. There are other pictures throughout the splat books that make the SC more reasonable to wield. And for a character who wields one to control the field and protect the squishy characters I support their use. But as with magic I also believe that they should have all of the rules handy (if not already on 3x5 cards) much as a wizard should know their spells. I have seen just as many battles slow down as the wizard opens the phb to look up the results of spells as fighters figuring out grapple and trip.
But that aside the scimitar, rapier ect are terrible representations. There are other pictures throughout the splat books that make the SC more reasonable to wield. And for a character who wields one to control the field and protect the squishy characters I support their use. But as with magic I also believe that they should have all of the rules handy (if not already on 3x5 cards) much as a wizard should know their spells. I have seen just as many battles slow down as the wizard opens the phb to look up the results of spells as fighters figuring out grapple and trip.
Elder-Basilisk
First Post
For one, I would be very happy if the spiked chain disappeared in 4.0. That would be enough to make me look at the edition a lot more closely.
In core 3.x, however, the spiked chain isn't as bad as people are making it out to be by itself. The finessing is a trap. The tripping is nifty but can be accomplished as effectively (and without expending a feat and with marginally more damage) with a guisarme. What makes the spiked chain as dominant as it is is the exotic weapon master prestige class. Two handed weapon that you can flurry with while using two-handed power attack? It's the only one. (Silly double weapons don't count). The extra attack is where the power comes from.
In core 3.x, however, the spiked chain isn't as bad as people are making it out to be by itself. The finessing is a trap. The tripping is nifty but can be accomplished as effectively (and without expending a feat and with marginally more damage) with a guisarme. What makes the spiked chain as dominant as it is is the exotic weapon master prestige class. Two handed weapon that you can flurry with while using two-handed power attack? It's the only one. (Silly double weapons don't count). The extra attack is where the power comes from.
mach1.9pants said:
I... can't? Does this mean you're one of the crack WotC Game Police Ninjas, and you're going to ninje me if I try?
At which point, you can't really use it to do the things it does. Taking the spikes off and making it a blunt weapon takes 99% of the stupid out. Then you just have to deal with the excessive mechanical advantages compared to any other exotic weapon.
The drawings aren't that bad, honestly. Especially for an RPG. I've seen much worse, in particular, palladium, and Arcana Evolved (which was sad, since the Arcana Unearthed drawings were pretty decent). Its more a matter that most of the exotic weapons are ridiculous in concept, and the designs would make actual weaponsmiths and weapon experts cry bitter tears.
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
mach1.9pants
Hero
No YOU CANNOTVoss said:I... can't? Does this mean you're one of the crack WotC Game Police Ninjas, and you're going to ninje me if I try?
By Order of
M1.9P
Sir Uber Death Leader Ninja of Spiky Chainess Level 18/WotC Super Spy and Game Police 2
..Sorry poor choice of words
.My point was not that the spiked chain was a realistic or historic weapon, but that it was just as viable as any of other ridiculous weapon illustrations fantasy artist like. My personal fave? Swords and axes which have humongous blades, probably weighing around 50 or 60 kg.
However if you think the mechanics are over the top (reference other weapons), that maybe true but it balances with the power of spellcasters and other such stuff IMO. I think that theoretically a weapon such as a spiked chain could be used as defined in the PHB. It is long and can hit people both far (holding near the non spiky end) and short by holding it in the middle with the excess coiled. It can easily entangle legs (trip) or weapons (disarm). And as long as the spiky bits are on the other end to your, like a morning star flail, no reason to damage anybody apart from your target. This is a theoretically, for real I think it would be rubbish, but my player likes the look and IMO it is not overpowered so I am happy to have it in my campaign.
Gloombunny
First Post
The spiked chain is kinda silly, but that doesn't bother me so much. It just bugs me that it's so much better than polearms for reach builds. If 4e keeps the spiked chain but buffs polearms to being balanced with it, so that a player can choose either one without sacrificing optimization? Then I'll be happy.
