Spring Attacking Shadowdancers!

Heh, activating supernatural abilities is a standard action. It's a constant ability though, like the flames of a Balor (it doesn't have to activate those).

The truth is, if you look at Song & Silence and the PHB, you can hide while moving if you have something to hide in (shadows, in this case), but attacking reveals you, and you have to hide again. While sniping you can attack and hide again as a move equivalent action (a -20 penalty).

I'd say the same thing works with a Spring Attack. You can stay out of site while attacking if you succeed a Hide check with a -20 penalty for being rushed (and an additional -5 for moving).
 

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As others have said, maybe with a big penalty...or not at all since it is a standard action. Your not supposed to be able to go toe to toe with a fighter...your not a fighter! Hide 30' away, sneak attack him and slip away 5'. As he looks for you, and I am going to assume he fails, see previous post for why he has no real chance to Spot you. Then repeat the process. This doesn't require move/attack/move/hide just more time.
 

I see it like the high level monk who can Jump – Attack – Jump with spring attack.

I agree with you RangerWickett

It's a constant ability though, like the flames of a Balor (it doesn't have to activate those).

And I don’t know about the -20, I’m not running or charging, merely moving at my normal speed, so it should be at -5. The guys at Wizards Tech Support said that this was how it worked, they had been asked the question before, the guy put me on hold to check on what the official word was, and he said it’s the same as moving and drawing a weapon when you have a +1 or better BAB. However, it seems that the general consensus here is that those guys are completely wrong. (Heck, my own group seems to think so). I find this rather disturbing, as I would hope that Wizards would employ a Technical Support staff who will give correct answers.

I work in Technical Support for a large software company, and I know that when we get more than one question for something we generally research the issue in pretty extensive detail so that we are giving the correct information to our customers.

Hopefully Monte Cook will answer me on his message boards; if not perhaps I will ask the sage.
 

I think it would be okay (read: balanced) if you could do it with a large penalty (-10 to -20). Remember that you do already spring attack, so your enemy doesn`t get AOOs and he cannnot attack you unless he readies for your attack.

Spot is meant as a "passive" skill. If you spot something, you didn`t know it was there (or it could even be there), but when you see a ShadowDancer springing out of a shadow, hitting you with his weapon in a very painful way (sneak attack), you know where to look and expect the enemy.
And since you are moving, you will probably cause some traces (the DC for detecting the trace of an invisible creature isn`t as high as someone might expect), I think a total penalty of -15 might be okay. This will negate the bonus of a Robe of Blending or a Ring of Chameleon Power, so you will still be good at your job...
 


True, this is really good, however, as a Fighter 4/Rogue3/Shadowdancer2 I don’t have that many hitpoints, and I think being able to spring attack like this very nicely fits the whole Shadowdancer concept, ‘a warrior striking unseen from the shadows.’

Also to do the Spring Attack Hide trick you are giving up your additional attacks making only one attack each round.

The opponent is free to ready an action against you leaving cover.
 

You aren't sneak attacking because as soon as you move up to attack you are spotted. Ready actions will hit you. Anyone other than the person you are attacking gets AoO for your movement. Hide in plain sight is a standard action as people have mentioned. You must have shadows within 10' of your hiding place.

Other than the above problems its a nice trick. You can shoot from the shadows using sniper more effectively than you can spring attack. Area effect spells will catch a sniper though. You can get pinned with a circular wall of fire. Insect swarm will get you too. Web cuts down on your movement. Those are just 4th level and below counters to hide in plain sight.
 

Nah. A couple of rouges with uncanny dodge, and missile weapons (maybe even blind-fighting feat) should take care of that shadowdancer. The only sense you are hiding from is sight. A lot of monsters also have great sense of smell not to mention other abilities to detect enemies. Even worse for the shadowdancer if her enemies know what she can do. Then they might have brought a cleric, sorc. or wizard who can cast Dimensional Anchor.

And I agree that hide in plain sight and hiding while moving is not the same thing.

Cheapest defense against someone who becomes invisible:
-Have a bag full of wheat or some other crunsy stuff and spread it on the floor in front of you.
 

It can be a dangerous tactic, but there are a lot of considerations.

First of all, you do not get a sneak attack because you are fully visible once you step into the light.

Second of all, you cannot Hide effectively if your opponent knows exactly where you are. The Hide rules as is are really for situations where either your opponent does not know you are there at all, or only has a very vague guess. If he can pinpoint your location to 2-3 5' squares, I would say he can just shine his lantern on those squares and look as a MEA, automatically exposing you if his guess is right.

Third, a Fighter with a Ready Action is still going to kick your tushy.

I would let you make the Hide attempt, but give you a -5 for moving. If it is pretty obvious where you end up, and that always be the case in well lit rooms, they should get massive Spot bonuses.

You most certainly can use this tactic in a poorly lit area. That is really one of the main points of a Shadowdancer.
 

Hide in plain sight lets you hide while being observed. You just seem to fade away. Shining a lantern around isn't going to help unless you elimate all shadows within 10'. Its great if you want to escape, hide and then run for it. Its not so great for in and out maneuvers but with haste you could pop out and then re-hide.
 

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