Star Trek and Idealism vs cynicism

[jian]

There is a big limit on how far you can stretch an IP. But it can be vague......and worse the non fans will never, ever understand. And sadly it's nearly always non-fans in charge of things.

But you can't just take "random outer space plot" and slap "Star Trek" onto it. And the Big Fundamentals of Star Trek are the Positive Future and good people working together and understanding and the naturalistic world view.

The Star Trek universe is a big one.....but all the possible show to make would not be "Star Trek".

You could do: Star Trek: Federation CSI. And......this would not work. Having a crime a week in the Federation just does not fit into the utopia vision.

Star Trek Mission Impossible....er, and again no. This is right on the failed section 31 spot.

The Boys of Star Trek......oh, no.....

I think you could have a Star Trek police procedural of some sort. I’m not sure it would market well and it would be hard to avoid copaganda - after all, our Starfleet investigators would be good people supporting a good system - but you could, especially in a single setting like DS9 or a similar civilian space station.

I think the main issues would be to avoid the horrible cynicism and serial killer fetishism of many CSI style shows, and to show that life in the Federation is mostly pretty utopian. But people will still try to kill or steal from each other occasionally, and often do so quite ingeniously using the technology available.

I have a soft spot for the Ezri episode with the transporter rifle, which is very Galileo.

 

[WayneLigon]

I think the main issues would be to avoid the horrible cynicism and serial killer fetishism of many CSI style shows, and to show that life in the Federation is mostly pretty utopian. But people will still try to kill or steal from each other occasionally, and often do so quite ingeniously using the technology available.

I think any writers you hired to do a procedural Star Trek show would collectively hang themselves after the first episode as they try to deal with all of the throwaway miracle tech that never gets used a second time.

 

[bloodtide]

I think the main issues would be to avoid the horrible cynicism and serial killer fetishism of many CSI style shows, and to show that life in the Federation is mostly pretty utopian. But people will still try to kill or steal from each other occasionally, and often do so quite ingeniously using the technology available.

I also see a CSI Federation show not working "in" the Federation as it breaks the idea of a utopia. You can't have that much Crime in paradise. And, as you said, you would need to avoid "jaded dark" cops and setting.

You could do it.....like DS9...on the "Edge" of the Federation somewhere in a non Federation place, where you would clearly show good Federation Starfleet "cops" vs bad criminal aliens.

 

[pukunui]

I think a Star Trek CSI show would work well on a world like that one that Worf and Raffi visited in Star Trek Picard. Don't remember its name.

EDIT: M'talas Prime (or Matalas)! M'talas Prime

 

[bloodtide]

I think a Star Trek CSI show would work well on a world like that one that Worf and Raffi visited in Star Trek Picard. Don't remember its name.

EDIT: M'talas Prime (or Matalas)! M'talas Prime

A show might work....but would it be a Star Trek show, or just a generic sci fi show?

M'talas Prime is "far outside the Federation". So would it be Star Trek with a bunch of dark morally questionable...maybe even evil "cop" characters fighting crime?

Is it Star Trek to show drug dealers killing innocents, and lying witnesses, and corrupt judges and crooked lawyers?

Putting blood and gore with "stories ripped from the modern day headlines" really work good in Star Trek?

 

[jian]

I think any writers you hired to do a procedural Star Trek show would collectively hang themselves after the first episode as they try to deal with all of the throwaway miracle tech that never gets used a second time.

Yeah, that’s a tough one. Even if you just stick with clear focal tech well known to the average ST audience (transporters, replicators, phasers, sensors, holodecks) there’s a lot of options for a clever criminal and so a lot of bases our detectives have to cover. I’d certainly have a rule that you’re only allowed to introduce one new piece of tech every five episodes, and that includes tech established in episodes of previous shows (such as the exographic targeting sensor from that DS9 episode).

I don’t think there being occasional crimes makes the Federation not a utopia - even in a society where everyone has enough to eat, a nice job if they want it, all the rights, and a place to live, people will still want things and people they can’t have. They’ll murder for envy, jealousy, pride, lust, anger, and even greed. Most classic golden age murder mysteries have culprits who at least appear to have enough. And I’d certainly copy the feel of those stories - things are cosy and simpatico on the surface, but people are all still people, and that means some will do the wrong thing even if they know better.

 

[pukunui]

A show might work....but would it be a Star Trek show, or just a generic sci fi show?

M'talas Prime is "far outside the Federation". So would it be Star Trek with a bunch of dark morally questionable...maybe even evil "cop" characters fighting crime?

Is it Star Trek to show drug dealers killing innocents, and lying witnesses, and corrupt judges and crooked lawyers?

Putting blood and gore with "stories ripped from the modern day headlines" really work good in Star Trek?

No, not when you put it like that.

 

[Ryujin]

I also see a CSI Federation show not working "in" the Federation as it breaks the idea of a utopia. You can't have that much Crime in paradise. And, as you said, you would need to avoid "jaded dark" cops and setting.

You could do it.....like DS9...on the "Edge" of the Federation somewhere in a non Federation place, where you would clearly show good Federation Starfleet "cops" vs bad criminal aliens.

Or you could do it as a planet-of-the-week show in which the investigators are an elite squad that investigate crimes that, while rare, are non zero in something as vast as The Federation.

 

[Umbran]

Or you could do it as a planet-of-the-week show in which the investigators are an elite squad that investigate crimes that, while rare, are non zero in something as vast as The Federation.

You guys are on your way to re-inventing Ashen Stars.

It is a Gumshoe-based game by Robin Laws, in which the PCs are a crew of "Licensed Autonomous Zone Effectuators" (aka "Lasers") - freelance troubleshooters and investigators called in when the job is outside the abilities of local forces.

Basically, your crew is a Star Trek "away team", in the lawless areas of the galaxy where the analog of the Federation has contracted after a devastating war.

 

[nevin]

Some of the discussion about the section 31 movie got me thinking and i figured it should be it's own thread. We all know that when roddenberry started the Star Trek universe, it was meant to be hopeful and very idealistic about humanity's future (along with a commentary on contemporary issues) but then things slowly started to change.

I think how you feel about the existence of S31 comes down to how idealistic you think ST should be overall.

I liked how DS9 showed that everything outside the core of the federation wasn't all sunshine and rainbows and that it asked the question "What does it take to keep it that way?"

So, how do you feel about Star trek leaning into cynicism?

That's what DC univere is for don't ruin STAR TREK