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Star Trek [+] Star Trek Discovery (Fan) Thread

Hussar

Legend
Nope - replicators break down matter to the atomic level and reassemble it into new forms. If they could convert matter to energy, starships wouldn't need antimatter.

Technically, transporters don't convert matter to energy either - they turn it into a "matter stream" which can be transmitted like energy, but throughout the process the composition of that matter is maintained, to the extent that creatures remain conscious and aware throughout the process.
I believe you are mistaken. How would you be "recycling" when creating self-replicating mines, such as they did in DS9 to stop the Dominion from flooding through the wormhole? Or, what would Voyager be recycling to create new shuttles?

A more thorough explanation is found here: Replicator
 

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MarkB

Legend
I believe you are mistaken. How would you be "recycling" when creating self-replicating mines, such as they did in DS9 to stop the Dominion from flooding through the wormhole? Or, what would Voyager be recycling to create new shuttles?

A more thorough explanation is found here: Replicator
As with most Treknology, it's not always applied consistently, but as I said, if they had the tech to convert matter into energy, why would they carry extremely dangerous antimatter fuel in order to do the same thing much less safely?

Note that in the first paragraph it says that items are created using the ship or station's replicator reserves, which can be replenished by placing items into the replicators for recycling. In-universe these are referred to as "matter banks". Replicators can't create something from nothing. Voyager would have needed to harvest raw materials (possibly asteroids) or dedicated some of its own internal structure to be re-processed into shuttle components. The mines might have had a cloaked reserve of spare matter, or had limited quantities of raw materials on board.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
I was under the impression that replicators used something similar to holodeck technology. They converted energy into matter. So, no, Federation starships did not "recycle" anything. Anything unused would be turned back into energy by the replicators.

Not quite - the replicator system doesn't fly around with the ship holding huge amounts of "pure energy". They store it as fairly base matter, which won't, you know, explode if an attacking ship's phasers hit it or something. So, it is effectively the 20-mumble century's version of today's recyling. We today generally mechanically crush or shred materials to stow them before they get melted down or processed. They rip them apart with transporters and re-materialize it as stable base materials.
 

Mustrum_Ridcully

Adventurer
The shows were never quite consistent on whether the replicators just use energy, or energy + raw materials. However, the latter is overall more consistent, because it more easily explains why some stuff - like Dilithium or Latinum - just can't be replicated - they require a base material not commonly available.
IIRC, the Technical Manual of the Enterprise D suggests that they definitely had matter supplies that would be used for the replicators. But of course, the tech works however a writer in a moment needs it to.
 

Vael

Hero
That Hope is You Part 2

Discovery doesn't have, for me, a great track record with season finales. The ending notes have always resonated with me but the bulk of the episode getting there has felt messy and underbaked. And this season finale was no different.

Elements of the finale worked for me. Saru and Su'kal. Owosekun saving the ship. The whole last act, from Burnham's log in the denouement, up to her last line "Let's Fly" got me emotional (I know this was done pre-covid, but the line about disconnection and that quote from Roddenberry all hit me hard). Seeing the crew in the new uniforms.

And the rest wasn't bad, it's just that it all felt a little less than the sum of its parts. The destination was good, the journey felt rushed and off.

I'm still eager to get the next season. I like this crew, though with Saru no longer in command (but still on the show), I think they need some more aliens in the cast. More Linus.
 

Dire Bare

Legend
I loved the season finale! Part 1 didn't get me too worked up, but I was kept engaged for all of Part 2.

Some thoughts:
  • I wasn't sure about Su'kal and the cause of the Burn earlier, but I really enjoyed the resolution this week.
    [*]Su'kal is an X-Man!!! They way Culbert described his "powers", it sounded just like the x-gene mutation in Marvel Comics!
    [*]The design of the future Federation ships is growing on me, but I'm still on the fence with all the detached ship parts.
    [*]I tried, but I don't really care for the future Federation uniform design. Here's hoping they change it up for Season 4. I did like that the Disco crew updated their uniforms to match the future Federation though!
    [*]Lots of really good character moments, I really enjoyed the scene where Vance offers Burnham the captain's chair.
    [*]Owosekun is my favorite bridge officer, I enjoyed her heroic moment!
    [*]"Let's Fly!" Cheesy, but I teared up a little . . .
    [*]Did anyone catch the end credits music!!!! I definitely teared up a little at that point!
 

Omand

Adventurer
It seems I have company in this thread. Not everything quite worked for me, and yet at the same time I have to say I am satisfied with where things ended up.

The thing that pulled me the most out of the episode was the whole bit with the turbolifts.

We know from previous series that turbolifts are high tech elevators that can move up, down, right, left, etc. So far, so good. I can suspend disbelief a great deal on that point. Even the 32nd Century ones using anti-grav instead of any form of rail system. But all of that space shown in the turbolift battle. Where is all of that supposed to fit in Discovery? The ship is just not thick enough anywhere for the type of space being shown. It was like the Tardis from Doctor Who had turned into Discovery and everyone was in a place bigger on the inside than on the outside.

Loved the resolution, although I would have preferred more show rather than tell for the Emerald Chain falling apart.

Really, although I liked where things ended up, I think this should have been a three-part episode (or just delete the overlong and physics defying turbolift battle and use that screen time for other development.
 

Dire Bare

Legend
It seems I have company in this thread. Not everything quite worked for me, and yet at the same time I have to say I am satisfied with where things ended up.

The thing that pulled me the most out of the episode was the whole bit with the turbolifts.

We know from previous series that turbolifts are high tech elevators that can move up, down, right, left, etc. So far, so good. I can suspend disbelief a great deal on that point. Even the 32nd Century ones using anti-grav instead of any form of rail system. But all of that space shown in the turbolift battle. Where is all of that supposed to fit in Discovery? The ship is just not thick enough anywhere for the type of space being shown. It was like the Tardis from Doctor Who had turned into Discovery and everyone was in a place bigger on the inside than on the outside.

Loved the resolution, although I would have preferred more show rather than tell for the Emerald Chain falling apart.

Really, although I liked where things ended up, I think this should have been a three-part episode (or just delete the overlong and physics defying turbolift battle and use that screen time for other development.
Not sure we need spoilers on a tech discussion, but I agree . . . I'm okay with anti-grav turbolifts, but that cavernous space seemed a bit much to me also. Plus, there were a LOT of other turbolifts whizzing around, more than it felt like there should be under the circumstances.
 

MarkB

Legend
100% agreed on the turbolifts. The whole sequence could have worked if they'd just kept the spaces tighter, while still wider than just a conventional elevator shaft.

A lot felt too rushed, and all of Ossyra's character development from last episode is flushed down the pan in this one. They should've cut down Georgiou's farewell to a single episode, and given the finale more room to breathe.
 

Blackrat

He Who Lurks Beyond The Veil
I am turning into a Burnham hater. I loved her the previous seasons, but I’m beginning to lean to the opinion that Discovery is turning into The Michael Burnham Show. And the ending just made that opinion stronger. As for anything not to do directly with her; still awesome!
Especially loved that they finally updated their uniforms.
 
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Truth Seeker

Adventurer
I am turning into a Burnham hater. I loved her the previous seasons, but I’m beginning to lean to the opinion that Discovery is turning into The Michael Burnham Show. And the ending just made that opinion stronger. As for anything not to do directly with her; still awesome!
Especially loved that they finally updated their uniforms.
I am wondering now, to what I just watch...I have seen within my lifespan...true scifi good and bad, but this was beyond the bad, in fact...a description can't be given.

I can't...
 

Vael

Hero
I am turning into a Burnham hater. I loved her the previous seasons, but I’m beginning to lean to the opinion that Discovery is turning into The Michael Burnham Show. And the ending just made that opinion stronger. As for anything not to do directly with her; still awesome!
Especially loved that they finally updated their uniforms.

... This has been the Michael Burnham show from "The Vulcan Hello". She's always been the star, the central axis of the show. It's been very much a throwback to TOS in that way, where Burnham = Kirk, Saru = Spock, Stamets = McCoy and Tilly = Scotty. They've softened that a bit, but this hasn't been an ensemble show, not really. What was unique was that Discovery was the first Trek show where the main star hasn't been it's Captain.
 

Dire Bare

Legend
I am turning into a Burnham hater. I loved her the previous seasons, but I’m beginning to lean to the opinion that Discovery is turning into The Michael Burnham Show. And the ending just made that opinion stronger. As for anything not to do directly with her; still awesome!
Especially loved that they finally updated their uniforms.
Huh? Michael Burnham has been the main character since the first episode of Season 1. To complain that a show focuses on it's main character . . . odd.

A better complaint, IMO, is that the bridge crew outside of Saru and Tilly didn't get much characterization in Season 1, a smidge more in Season 2, and we've finally started to get to know them in Season 3. The show would have been stronger with better characterization of these "B" characters from the start.

But this has never been an ensemble show, Burnham has always been the main character. Maybe that's the real criticism here . . . do you miss the ensemble cast storytelling of TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT? That's understandable, but don't forget the original series wasn't an ensemble show either, it focused on the trinity of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy and all of our other favorite characters developed slowly in teensy bits over 3 seasons and 7 movies.
 

Mustrum_Ridcully

Adventurer
The interesting thing is that theoretically, Burnham as Captain might make it easier to turn it into a "ensemble" show like TNG or DS9. I don't know if they intend to do that, though. And I know Burnham being the "main" has been a problem for many Star Trek fans.

The way I see it, every Star Trek except TNG tried to do something different from before. TNG didn't have to, because they really first needed to bring Star Trek back to TV. DS9 was set on a space station, instead of doing a "Star Trek". VOY were far away from the Federation and instead of exploring the galaxy just for idealism and curiosity, they tried to get back.
And were previous shows were always more focused on ensembles and having changing spotlights, Discovery puts its spotlight on a central character.

Each of these changes from the original formula has bothered some fans, and was appreciated by other fans, overall probably growing the Star Trek fanbase with people that love different aspects.
But of course, things are more complex than just that - for example, I loved the VOY premise, it is really promising. But I never felt it lived up to it, and was more TNG but the ship flying the opposite direction. Some might not mind the idea that Discovery has a central character, but dislike Burnham specifically.
 

Blackrat

He Who Lurks Beyond The Veil
Yeah, I think I just hate what they’ve done with Burnham. Sure, she started as the main character and she was an awesome starfleet officer. Somehow in the last season she has turned into a messianic figure and that rubs me the wrong way. I love the show, I just don’t like Burnham anymore...
 

MarkB

Legend
My only issue with Burnham this season is that hner characterisation has been all over the place. Nearly done with Starfleet one episode, integrating well with everyone the next, disobeying direct orders and going off on solo missions after that, and then finally back to working with the crew. Based upon those wild inconsistencies, which are all down to the writers, not the actor, there's no way I'd be putting her in charge of a starship.

Yeah, I think I just hate what they’ve done with Burnham. Sure, she started as the main character and she was an awesome starfleet officer. Somehow in the last season she has turned into a messianic figure and that rubs me the wrong way. I love the show, I just don’t like Burnham anymore...
Wait, she finished season 2 turning into a literal angel blazing a trail to literally lead her crew into the future, and you think this season is when she became a messianic figure?
 

Blackrat

He Who Lurks Beyond The Veil
Wait, she finished season 2 turning into a literal angel blazing a trail to literally lead her crew into the future, and you think this season is when she became a messianic figure?
Well yeah, it started around there maybe but now she’s become infallible and the ”hope of the future and all of federation” and all that...

I really hope they bring her back to being an actual human being in the next season.
 

Truth Seeker

Adventurer
Well yeah, it started around there maybe but now she’s become infallible and the ”hope of the future and all of federation” and all that...

I really hope they bring her back to being an actual human being in the next season.
I sincerely doubt that...in all levels.
 


Dire Bare

Legend
My only issue with Burnham this season is that hner characterisation has been all over the place. Nearly done with Starfleet one episode, integrating well with everyone the next, disobeying direct orders and going off on solo missions after that, and then finally back to working with the crew. Based upon those wild inconsistencies, which are all down to the writers, not the actor, there's no way I'd be putting her in charge of a starship.


Wait, she finished season 2 turning into a literal angel blazing a trail to literally lead her crew into the future, and you think this season is when she became a messianic figure?
I like Burnham's character and I'm constantly blown away by Sonequa Martin-Green (she's amazing) . . . but I agree with this criticism. The writing for Burnham has been pretty inconsistent in Season 3. Lots of interesting moments and arcs, but overall pretty inconsistent.
 

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