Star Trek Discovery not getting any better I fear.

[Zardnaar]

Burnham I don't think is a Mary Sue just a horrible character but she is the protagonist. Agree with previous comment about the captains being the most interesting characters.

 

[Sadras]

I'm still utterly baffled by this whole "Mary Sue" criticism. I really am.

Here is a first season primer.
Can't wait for Season 2 recap.

So, what is it? Is it because she has more screen time? Or that in the first season most of the plots placed her at the center? That's not a Mary Sue, that's just a protagonist.

They need not be mutually exclusive.

It would really strengthen people's criticisms if they could avoid using such loaded shorthand that really doesn't apply here.

I think that may be subjective.

 

[Sadras]

Agree with previous comment about the captains being the most interesting characters.

Seriously?
Let us look at Deep Space 9 since you're currently watching that. Sisko is awesome, but is he REALLY the most interesting character?

What about Voyager? You're saying Janeway topped the Doctor and/or Borg in interest? REALLY?

 

[Zardnaar]

Seriously?
Let us look at Deep Space 9 since you're currently watching that. Sisko is awesome, but is he REALLY the most interesting character?

What about Voyager? You're saying Janeway topped and/or the Doctor or Borg in interest?

The comment was about the Discovery captains.

Haven't seen Voyager just reached season 7 DS9. Siskos not the most interesting imho, probably Dax/Quark overall.

 

[Sadras]

The comment was about the Discovery captains.

Apologies, I thought you were referring to Hussar's comment about previous Treks, where the Captains were the most interesting as seen in his quote below.

Is it because she's the focus of much of the show, whereas previous Star Treks focused so much attention on the captains?

 

[Sadras]

nvm

 

[Zardnaar]

Apologies, I thought you were referring to Hussar's comment about previous Treks, where the Captains were the most interesting as seen in his quote below.

All good. DS9 has to many great characters. Odo, Garak, Nog, Ferengi in general. Loving it.

 

[Sadras]

All good. DS9 has to many great characters. Odo, Garak, Nog, Ferengi in general. Loving it.

Yeah, the characters were written well (from what I have seen). I'm a few seasons behind you but the show still holds up well. It doesn't have the sleek beautiful set and clothing gear of Discovery but what it lacks in budget, it more than makes up for in the writing.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yeah, the characters were written well (from what I have seen). I'm a few seasons behind you but the show still holds up well. It doesn't have the slick beautiful set and clothing gear of Discovery but what it lacks in budget, it more than makes up for in the writing.

I'm all about story over pretty visuals. Rewatched Babylon 5 and the special effects are terrible but the characters and plot hold up well.

Not every character needs to be likeable but protagonists need to.

 

[Hussar]

Seriously?
Let us look at Deep Space 9 since you're currently watching that. Sisko is awesome, but is he REALLY the most interesting character?

What about Voyager? You're saying Janeway topped the Doctor and/or Borg in interest? REALLY?

Most interesting? Dunno about that, but, there's no doubt that the series definitely places him at the center of the story lines. As it does with Janeway as well. Is there any real doubt here that either character is the main protagonist on the show?

Here are two characters that get the most screen time overall, and whose decisions and actions drive the plot for pretty much every episode. Sure, there are a few episodes every season where the captain isn't at the centre, but, that's because you'Ve got 24 (ish) episodes per season. You can afford to have that.

And that youtube video was pretty much a selection of bog standard clips about the protagonist in a Star Trek serial. You could make identical, almost scene for scene clip collections for Kirk or Picard. Youngest captain ever. Top of his class. Most decorated Star Fleet captain ever. Loved by every alien female. Oh, but, Kirk's not a Mary Sue. Picard is pretty much in the same boat as well. Best captain. Moral center of the universe. Never mistaken.

Look, I get criticizing Discovery, I really do. But, these Mary Sue things are bizarre considering what we're comparing Burnham to. It really does ring rather false.

IOW, "I don't like the character of Burnham, I find her unbelievable, flat, two dimensional and kinda boring" is an arguable, but, understandable point. "I don't like Burnham because she's a Mary Sue" just invites all sorts of counter arguments that reveal that no, she really isn't.