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Star Trek Picard SPOILERS thread

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Although, I do have to ask, why does every Trek series take Star Fleet and make it the bad guy? We saw it back in TNG, DS9, and ST:Discovery. For a "utopian vision" of the future, Star Fleet sure likes to go back on its principles.
I don’t think they’ve made it the bad guy. It’s still Starfleet. Just Picard and Starfleet disagreed about something 20 years back.
 

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MarkB

Legend
I don’t think they’ve made it the bad guy. It’s still Starfleet. Just Picard and Starfleet disagreed about something 20 years back.
Indeed - and that's nothing new. Kirk was disagreeing with Starfleet frequently back in the original series, and Picard was doing so as recently as Star Trek Insurrection.

I'd consider it to be an abiding theme across all Trek series that, while principles may be established by a government, it is up to individuals to uphold them.
 

Janx

Hero
We loved it.

How come Picard never asked about the Daystrom Institute's new employee, Dahj? I mean yes, they talked about Picard meeting her, but when he's given resistance to the idea of a synthetic, it's like "you tell me, you hired her." would have made a great line.

Which that line of discussion might have led to Maddox, once they backtracked Dahj to her home, parents, etc.
 

MarkB

Legend
We loved it.

How come Picard never asked about the Daystrom Institute's new employee, Dahj? I mean yes, they talked about Picard meeting her, but when he's given resistance to the idea of a synthetic, it's like "you tell me, you hired her." would have made a great line.

Which that line of discussion might have led to Maddox, once they backtracked Dahj to her home, parents, etc.
Hopefully they may pick up on that next week. We did leave off the episode with Picard still at the Daystrom Institute.
 

Ryujin

Adventurer
We loved it.

How come Picard never asked about the Daystrom Institute's new employee, Dahj? I mean yes, they talked about Picard meeting her, but when he's given resistance to the idea of a synthetic, it's like "you tell me, you hired her." would have made a great line.

Which that line of discussion might have led to Maddox, once they backtracked Dahj to her home, parents, etc.

I took it as Picard not wanting to lay all of his cards on the table, because at this point he has no idea who to trust.
 

Janx

Hero
So what do we know so far?

Data is dead, his appearance is a dream sequence
Nobody ever says Data's daughter's name, Lal.
the Daystrom Institute still exists
Synthetics became more common place at some point
Synthetics went bad and burned Mars
Synthetics were banned, yet at least one works in StarFleet Archives
Picard has a storage unit to keep his old stuff
He kept the Captain Picard Day sign
Maddox is in hiding, probably made the new Lal-alikes
Dahj-Mom hasn't called the other daughter out of concern
Romulans work for Picard and his vineyard
Romulans have a thriving Scrap business
The Federation turned its back on Romulan Refugees
Some neighborghoods on Earth aren't as smurfy as others
Picard isn't used to running up stairs
 

Anoth

Adventurer
Romulans integrating in Star fleet made no sense to me. They were a cast empire with hundred of world or more to move to. They would have stayed in their own empire and relocated to another planet in their empire. Other than that I liked it.
 


Raunalyn

Adventurer
Romulans integrating in Star fleet made no sense to me. They were a cast empire with hundred of world or more to move to. They would have stayed in their own empire and relocated to another planet in their empire. Other than that I liked it.

I saw it as a group of Romulans "defected" to the Federation. Perhaps some of them were grateful for the assistance in evacuating Romulus when the sun went supernova. That being said, I think there is a group of Romulans that are trying to undermine this integration (at least, that was how I interpreted the Romulan assassins trying to kill Dahj).
 


Ryujin

Adventurer
So what do we know so far?

Data is dead, his appearance is a dream sequence
Nobody ever says Data's daughter's name, Lal.
the Daystrom Institute still exists
Synthetics became more common place at some point
Synthetics went bad and burned Mars
Synthetics were banned, yet at least one works in StarFleet Archives
Picard has a storage unit to keep his old stuff
He kept the Captain Picard Day sign
Maddox is in hiding, probably made the new Lal-alikes
Dahj-Mom hasn't called the other daughter out of concern
Romulans work for Picard and his vineyard
Romulans have a thriving Scrap business
The Federation turned its back on Romulan Refugees
Some neighborghoods on Earth aren't as smurfy as others
Picard isn't used to running up stairs

Also, that the synthetics weren't on-par with Soong leval androids. I suspect that will figure into why they 'rebelled.'
 


MarkB

Legend
Also, that the synthetics weren't on-par with Soong leval androids. I suspect that will figure into why they 'rebelled.'
I'm betting that "went rogue" will turn out to actually be "were re-programmed / ordered by someone with an agenda against letting the Federation save Romulans."

I'm tempted to lay the blame with Dr Maddox, given that (a) they were built in his lab, (b) he's pulled a disappearing act, and (c) he's the most likely candidate to be Dahj's creator, but I don't want to jump to conclusions.
 

Janx

Hero
I'm betting that "went rogue" will turn out to actually be "were re-programmed / ordered by someone with an agenda against letting the Federation save Romulans."

I'm tempted to lay the blame with Dr Maddox, given that (a) they were built in his lab, (b) he's pulled a disappearing act, and (c) he's the most likely candidate to be Dahj's creator, but I don't want to jump to conclusions.

I'd be against that bet. I expect Maddox to be obsessed with perfecting synthetic life and that's pretty much it. He vanished because of the Mars incident and the ban against his work. He's a victim of politics, not the cause. Whoever used the synthetics, did so as a means to an end. Perhaps to slow down Federation ship-building, and to remove a chunk of workforce (synthetics).

That would fit a Romulan objective, to strengthen their position in the galaxy. Especially important as so many Romulans are learning to be nice as they integrate into their rescuers society. Setting up an us vs. them (as with the interviewer) might be valuable to light a fire under Romulans who've become too trusting.

---
Now one thing that puzzles me, for both humans and Romulans. In the 24th century, they are very distributed to other worlds. Why is losing Romulus or Mars such a setback? Sure, it's terrible. But life goes on. You can evacuate people to other star systems within you own territory. You can build another shipyard. Is this a flaw in the writers' mindset or am I missing something that 18 years couldn't have adapted to.
 

shawnhcorey

Explorer
But life goes on. You can evacuate people to other star systems within you own territory. You can build another shipyard. Is this a flaw in the writers' mindset or am I missing something that 18 years couldn't have adapted to.

It's called fiscal budget. The universe is full of politicians that believe nothing will go wrong, so why budget for them? Snipping funds from one part of the budget to pay for their elaborate plans continues to happen even in the face of bad outcomes.
 

MarkB

Legend
Now one thing that puzzles me, for both humans and Romulans. In the 24th century, they are very distributed to other worlds. Why is losing Romulus or Mars such a setback? Sure, it's terrible. But life goes on. You can evacuate people to other star systems within you own territory. You can build another shipyard. Is this a flaw in the writers' mindset or am I missing something that 18 years couldn't have adapted to.
Well, the Romulan empire was extremely centralised, and I'm not sure it was honestly all that big - the Neutral Zone with the Federation kept them constrained on one side, and they had a similar border with the Klingon empire. Cutting the heart out of that regime would have not only been a huge logistical blow, it would likely also have gutted both their military and civilian chain of command, quite possibly to the extent of there no longer being a singular Romulan political entity.

I don't get the impression that the Federation was as badly affected, but the decades preceding the attack on Mars had been trying times for them. The Dominion War took a huge toll on the entire Alpha Quadrant, and Starfleet in particular, and it's likely that they were nowhere near building back up to full strength in either vessels or personnel by the time of the supernova twelve years later. The loss of their primary shipyard, along with the huge loss of life, could easily have been felt as a crushing blow, leaving Starfleet feeling vulnerable and overextended.
 

Beleriphon

Totally Awesome Pirate Brain
I saw it as a group of Romulans "defected" to the Federation. Perhaps some of them were grateful for the assistance in evacuating Romulus when the sun went supernova. That being said, I think there is a group of Romulans that are trying to undermine this integration (at least, that was how I interpreted the Romulan assassins trying to kill Dahj).

I'd be against that bet. I expect Maddox to be obsessed with perfecting synthetic life and that's pretty much it. He vanished because of the Mars incident and the ban against his work. He's a victim of politics, not the cause. Whoever used the synthetics, did so as a means to an end. Perhaps to slow down Federation ship-building, and to remove a chunk of workforce (synthetics).

That would fit a Romulan objective, to strengthen their position in the galaxy. Especially important as so many Romulans are learning to be nice as they integrate into their rescuers society. Setting up an us vs. them (as with the interviewer) might be valuable to light a fire under Romulans who've become too trusting.

---
Now one thing that puzzles me, for both humans and Romulans. In the 24th century, they are very distributed to other worlds. Why is losing Romulus or Mars such a setback? Sure, it's terrible. But life goes on. You can evacuate people to other star systems within you own territory. You can build another shipyard. Is this a flaw in the writers' mindset or am I missing something that 18 years couldn't have adapted to.

Well, the Romulan empire was extremely centralised, and I'm not sure it was honestly all that big - the Neutral Zone with the Federation kept them constrained on one side, and they had a similar border with the Klingon empire. Cutting the heart out of that regime would have not only been a huge logistical blow, it would likely also have gutted both their military and civilian chain of command, quite possibly to the extent of there no longer being a singular Romulan political entity.

I don't get the impression that the Federation was as badly affected, but the decades preceding the attack on Mars had been trying times for them. The Dominion War took a huge toll on the entire Alpha Quadrant, and Starfleet in particular, and it's likely that they were nowhere near building back up to full strength in either vessels or personnel by the time of the supernova twelve years later. The loss of their primary shipyard, along with the huge loss of life, could easily have been felt as a crushing blow, leaving Starfleet feeling vulnerable and overextended.

I think I can answer these, given that I've been reading the Picard comics.

Really short version, the Romulan super nova did more than destroy Romulus and Remus, it did something to the entire sector of space the Romulans had colonized and basically made it uninhabitable. The two Romulans we meet at the vineyard are two that helped Admiral Picard during the evacuation of Romulan colonies. They're also former Tal'Shiar, but from what I can tell completely loyal to Picard given that he rescues them from certain execution if they return to the Empire (they're in love, Tal'Shiar apparently doesn't like that).

As for androids, Bruce Maddox (the officer than wants to declare Data property) may have met a Romulan woman and had children, since the young Romulan fellow at the end of episode introduces himself as Maddox, and is clearly not old enough to be Bruce Maddox who would have been in is 40s during the TNG original run.
 

MarkB

Legend
I think I can answer these, given that I've been reading the Picard comics.

Really short version, the Romulan super nova did more than destroy Romulus and Remus, it did something to the entire sector of space the Romulans had colonized and basically made it uninhabitable.
That would make sense. A supernova creates a huge wave of radiation, which would sweep through nearby systems over the subsequent decades - and this one was, by all accounts, a doozy. Spock in the Kelvinverse Star Trek describes it as having "threatened the galaxy" if it were not contained.

The two Romulans we meet at the vineyard are two that helped Admiral Picard during the evacuation of Romulan colonies.
I haven't read the comic, but I'd have surmised that it was something of that nature simply from their attitude and relationship with Picard as seen in this opening episode.

As for androids, Bruce Maddox (the officer than wants to declare Data property) may have met a Romulan woman and had children, since the young Romulan fellow at the end of episode introduces himself as Maddox, and is clearly not old enough to be Bruce Maddox who would have been in is 40s during the TNG original run.
Actually, he introduces himself as Narek. He is very quick to focus on Soji's necklace, though.
 

Beleriphon

Totally Awesome Pirate Brain
That would make sense. A supernova creates a huge wave of radiation, which would sweep through nearby systems over the subsequent decades - and this one was, by all accounts, a doozy. Spock in the Kelvinverse Star Trek describes it as having "threatened the galaxy" if it were not contained.

The first comic is Picard's mission to a system near by Romulus to evacuate it, where he meets the two in Star Trek: Picard. From what I can tell in the comics Picard was largely in charge of the evacuation efforts, which as we can see ultimately didn't go that well.

I haven't read the comic, but I'd have surmised that it was something of that nature simply from their attitude and relationship with Picard as seen in this opening episode.

I'm hoping for some real insight in to Romulan politics. I get the distinct impression that there is something going on that in the Roluman factions that don't agree with how things are being done. Also, it looks like there's a relatively large number of Romulan refugees in Federation space, so I suspect we'll be getting some Romulan terrorist subplots or something crazy going on.

Actually, he introduces himself as Narek. He is very quick to focus on Soji's necklace, though.

Hmmm, I swore I heard Maddox. Maybe it was the beard and floppy haircut.

On that note, I'm personally suspecting that B4 is going to get reconstructed and Data will eventually come back to save the day. Metaphorically or otherwise.
 

shawnhcorey

Explorer
A supernova would make life in the nearby systems impossible but it would be years for the radiation to get there. Their evaluation would have years of planning.
 

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