Star Wars:Jedi/Sith Can't Be Wiped Out?

[Zardnaar]

In canon Palpatine spent a lot of time trying to wipe the Jedi out and he died in RoS. However idk if the Jedi or sith can ever be wiped out forever even if you kill every single one. For the following reasons.

1. Force Ghosts/Sith spirits.
Well they exist and can guide or advise any wanna be apprentices. Momin in the new canon is an example of a Sith spirit along with Bane in the clone wars.

2. Holocron.
If any order is ever truly wiped out holocrons survive. Containing knowledge one can still learn the ways of the force using them.

3. Clones.
Palpatine can perhaps move his spirit around clone bodies. He could in legends maybe in canon as I'm not 100% sure on the exact method he used to come back. Or did a clone die in RoS and the real Palpatine can still exist. Or he can transfer into a new clone body who knows.

4. Hidden/secret apprentice. There's a 30 year gap between RotJ and TFA. Palpatine could have an unknown apprentice in that time. Additionally there's a lot of unexplained time for Darth Maul before his death in Rebels. Other Jedi may have survived the purge.

Legends Material Perhaps Applicable to Canon.

5. Carbonite/stasis.
Legends did go there canon has not. But we don't know how long one can be frozen in Carbonite. Ancient sith Lord on ice can be done or other form of stasis.

6. Pre Bane/Other Sith Order.

It's possible more Sith could exist either in a remote part of space or extra galactic eg in the dwarf galaxy Kamini is located in or even another galaxy.

Do that's just a few ideas several from canon and a couple that were used in legends but logically are possible in universe.

 

[MarkB]

It's a universe with comic book logic, where characters never stay dead forever if fans like them enough. The only thing that will finally kill either the Sith or Jedi is audience apathy.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Every single being at a particular time that calls themselves Jedi or Sith can be wiped out, but the Force never goes away and Force-sensitives continue being born. And the stronger ones will always be pulled to either the Light or Dark side. Maybe they would not have the title, but they will still be the same as those who had the title of Jedi or Sith.

 

[RangerWickett]

Lord, I'm once again reminded of how bizarre it was for Disney to not even write down a sequel trilogy plot outline on the back of a napkin before they started filming.


It's maybe not incredibly easy, because usually 'middles' of trilogies end on a down note, whereas Return of the Jedi ends on a very upbeat note.

So here's what you need. Fans like Jedi and old characters. Fans wants new stuff too. You also need some wars in some stars. For it to really feel like a consistent story with the original, you need some of the old guard, and you need the main trilogy conflict to tie into what happened before without negating the victory of the heroes in the original trilogy.

And if the Original Trilogy was basically World War 2 vs space Nazis, and the Prequel Trilogy was the descent into fascism, then I dunno, maybe have the Sequel Trilogy be inspired a bit by the Cold War, with some sort of proxy war hurting bystanders and a looming threat of mutually assured destruction. While you're at it, maybe we can wrap up the 'bring balance to the force' prophecy.

If Disney had bought me a steak dinner I could have come up with a trilogy outline by the time I'm done.

---

Broad strokes? The Empire is gone, for good. But some members of the former Rebel Alliance weren't all goody two-shoes themselves, so afterward they made a splinter First Order. There's not open fighting with the Republic, but worlds on the galactic rim are fought over, and that's where our main characters clash.

Rey's a scrounger on one of those worlds (Jakku) who is brought to train with Luke. Ben's a student of Luke's who feels like he'll never have a chance for glory like the past generation. Finn is a former First Order trooper who defects and becomes a war hero that the Republic admires.

Big beats? Ep 7 has the First Order (and their Knights of Ren) on Jakku looking for coordinates on a Star Destroyer that would lead them to the kyber crystals they need for their own super weapon. The team comes together to steal the coordinates themselves and rescue Poe (a Republic spy). They escape, but the First Order does recover the Star Destroyer's cargo which has enough crystals for a weaker weapon.

The group goes to Luke's school for guidance, and Ben's pride leads him to taunt the First Order, so the First Order arrives, attacks to recover the device that has the coordinates, and then blows up Luke's school. Our heroes escape, but Luke dies covering their escape. Nobody but Ben knows that he's complicit.

Ep 8 is a spy mission with sneaking and scheming and stealing ships, culminating in a raid loosely inspired by the sabotage of a Norwegian Heavy Water Facility in World War 2.

Finn and Poe are friends (with a romantic subtext that Disney won't let us make explicit) but they clash because Poe is too willing to kill First Order soldiers, while Finn wants to avoid conflicts and try to give conscripts a chance to escape. Rey and Ben have a close bond that he wants to be a romance, but she's disinterested, which again puts him on a dark path. He's captured during the mission, and is tempted by the chance to be a hero for the First Order. The climax has him confront his former team as they work to destroy a factory that could synthesize kyber crystals. They succeed the mission, and Rey is about to kill Ben, but Finn stops her. An explosion gives Ben a chance to escape.

Ep 9 is akin to the Cuban Missile Crisis. The challenge is getting people to stand down. I'll workshop it.

 

[Zardnaar]

Lord, I'm once again reminded of how bizarre it was for Disney to not even write down a sequel trilogy plot outline on the back of a napkin before they started filming.


It's maybe not incredibly easy, because usually 'middles' of trilogies end on a down note, whereas Return of the Jedi ends on a very upbeat note.

So here's what you need. Fans like Jedi and old characters. Fans wants new stuff too. You also need some wars in some stars. For it to really feel like a consistent story with the original, you need some of the old guard, and you need the main trilogy conflict to tie into what happened before without negating the victory of the heroes in the original trilogy.

And if the Original Trilogy was basically World War 2 vs space Nazis, and the Prequel Trilogy was the descent into fascism, then I dunno, maybe have the Sequel Trilogy be inspired a bit by the Cold War, with some sort of proxy war hurting bystanders and a looming threat of mutually assured destruction. While you're at it, maybe we can wrap up the 'bring balance to the force' prophecy.

If Disney had bought me a steak dinner I could have come up with a trilogy outline by the time I'm done.

---

Broad strokes? The Empire is gone, for good. But some members of the former Rebel Alliance weren't all goody two-shoes themselves, so afterward they made a splinter First Order. There's not open fighting with the Republic, but worlds on the galactic rim are fought over, and that's where our main characters clash.

Rey's a scrounger on one of those worlds (Jakku) who is brought to train with Luke. Ben's a student of Luke's who feels like he'll never have a chance for glory like the past generation. Finn is a former First Order trooper who defects and becomes a war hero that the Republic admires.

Big beats? Ep 7 has the First Order (and their Knights of Ren) on Jakku looking for coordinates on a Star Destroyer that would lead them to the kyber crystals they need for their own super weapon. The team comes together to steal the coordinates themselves and rescue Poe (a Republic spy). They escape, but the First Order does recover the Star Destroyer's cargo which has enough crystals for a weaker weapon.

The group goes to Luke's school for guidance, and Ben's pride leads him to taunt the First Order, so the First Order arrives, attacks to recover the device that has the coordinates, and then blows up Luke's school. Our heroes escape, but Luke dies covering their escape. Nobody but Ben knows that he's complicit.

Ep 8 is a spy mission with sneaking and scheming and stealing ships, culminating in a raid loosely inspired by the sabotage of a Norwegian Heavy Water Facility in World War 2.

Finn and Poe are friends (with a romantic subtext that Disney won't let us make explicit) but they clash because Poe is too willing to kill First Order soldiers, while Finn wants to avoid conflicts and try to give conscripts a chance to escape. Rey and Ben have a close bond that he wants to be a romance, but she's disinterested, which again puts him on a dark path. He's captured during the mission, and is tempted by the chance to be a hero for the First Order. The climax has him confront his former team as they work to destroy a factory that could synthesize kyber crystals. They succeed the mission, and Rey is about to kill Ben, but Finn stops her. An explosion gives Ben a chance to escape.

Ep 9 is akin to the Cuban Missile Crisis. The challenge is getting people to stand down. I'll workshop it.

My basic idea is if you market it as the Skywalker saga do that. Otherwise make different trilogy.

Rey doesn't need to be a Skywalker but she needed a relationship with him eg star pupil.

I would have made her a Jedi Knight to begin with, no super weapons and instead of Starkiller base have Coruscant fall to the First Order end of part VII.

 

[Janx]

I think RangerWickett has an excellent remake of the last 3 movies with the same characters in a better plot.

But getting back to the OT, I think the Sith are never quite wipeable because as long as Evil Force People appear, they'll be called Sith. It's that simple.

The Jedi are a bit more complicated as it turns out, their recruitment and mental health protocols are kinda evil. So they are branded as good guys, but aren't kosher. And folks like Luke keep trying to bring them back, including some of those bad practices.

I wouldn't say the Jedi need to die, but they need a revamp without Luke making the same mistakes.

It's also probable that like the Sith, if Good Force People showed up, they'd be called Jedi.

Not just the audience, but in-SW people. Because that's what they're called.

Kinda like if cars went away for awhile, and somebody made one in his garage. The neighbor would be "oh, look, I see you've got a car."

 

[Zardnaar]

I think RangerWickett has an excellent remake of the last 3 movies with the same characters in a better plot.

But getting back to the OT, I think the Sith are never quite wipeable because as long as Evil Force People appear, they'll be called Sith. It's that simple.

The Jedi are a bit more complicated as it turns out, their recruitment and mental health protocols are kinda evil. So they are branded as good guys, but aren't kosher. And folks like Luke keep trying to bring them back, including some of those bad practices.

I wouldn't say the Jedi need to die, but they need a revamp without Luke making the same mistakes.

It's also probable that like the Sith, if Good Force People showed up, they'd be called Jedi.

Not just the audience, but in-SW people. Because that's what they're called.

Kinda like if cars went away for awhile, and somebody made one in his garage. The neighbor would be "oh, look, I see you've got a car."

Both Jedi and Sith are specific force traditions.

There's are others both light and dark side.

For the average denzian of the Galaxy if a force user is running around with a light saber it's academic if they're Jedi, Sith or something else.

 

[Janx]

Both Jedi and Sith are specific force traditions.

There's are others both light and dark side.

For the average denzian of the Galaxy if a force user is running around with a light saber it's academic if they're Jedi, Sith or something else.

except that once you light up a light saber in public, you're gonna get called a Jedi or Sith.

It's the Kleenex problem.

 

[Umbran]

Your thread title says "Cannot be wiped out" With only one exception, what you list are things that make it difficult to wipe them out, but not impossible. Holocrons and cloning banks can be destroyed. Hidden apprentices and alternate orders can be hunted down. People in carbonite can be found, defrosted, and killed.

The only thing on the list of ways to bring them back that can't be wrecked by people are Force Ghosts and Spirits. Yes, those could plausibly bring back either order, with no real way to stop them.

 

[Zardnaar]

Your thread title says "Cannot be wiped out" With only one exception, what you list are things that make it difficult to wipe them out, but not impossible. Holocrons and cloning banks can be destroyed. Hidden apprentices and alternate orders can be hunted down. People in carbonite can be found, defrosted, and killed.

The only thing on the list of ways to bring them back that can't be wrecked by people are Force Ghosts and Spirits. Yes, those could plausibly bring back either order, with no real way to stop them.

True but for a potential author you can always miss one.

In universe the galaxy is a big place and not all of it is explored so it's functionally impossible to hunt down every Holocron.

Palpatine tried and failed.