Star Wars Spoilers Thread [Spoilers]

So here's my review: 100% a Star Wars film which belongs with the original trilogy.

It's a transitional film, but it does it well. The new generation is really good.

I think the major death was kinda signposted a bit. You knew it was coming long before it happened. I felt worse for Chewie, but he, Rey, and BB8 make a great team.

Is this the first Star Wars film where nobody gets their hand cut off?

Luke lives in Ireland, eh?

Question: WHY was there a map to Luke, and why was it split into two? I feel like I missed something. For that matter, why a map and not just some coordinates? Seems like a random puzzle set up for the sake of it.

 

[delericho]

Actually, I thought the sub-title was a bit misleading, and said so immediately after watching the movie for the first time. I had been expecting something on a much wider scale, not just a single person becoming Force-Sensitive.

There was, though it's not entirely clear what:

"There has been an Awakening. Have you felt it?"

That was asked quite some time before Rey woke up to the Force.

(Incidentally, one possibility: in the prequels, the Jedi note that their ability to use the Force has diminished. In the OT, the Force-users are much more limited - possibly justified by Vader being a cyborg and Luke being half-trained, but perhaps not. Perhaps there has been a long-term decline in people's ability to use the Force, that is now being quickly reversed. Which would explain why Rey seems to powerful so quickly - it's not that she's so much more powerful than we're used to, but more that the Force is suddenly much easier to use.)

 

[Bedrockgames]

There was, though it's not entirely clear what:

"There has been an Awakening. Have you felt it?"

That was asked quite some time before Rey woke up to the Force.

(Incidentally, one possibility: in the prequels, the Jedi note that their ability to use the Force has diminished. In the OT, the Force-users are much more limited - possibly justified by Vader being a cyborg and Luke being half-trained, but perhaps not. Perhaps there has been a long-term decline in people's ability to use the Force, that is now being quickly reversed. Which would explain why Rey seems to powerful so quickly - it's not that she's so much more powerful than we're used to, but more that the Force is suddenly much easier to use.)

The whole "There has been an awakening thing" mirrors the dialogue between Palpatine and Vader in Empire when the emperor says he has felt a disturbance in the force, and Vader says he has felt it as well (in reference to Luke).

 

[delericho]

The whole "There has been an awakening thing" mirrors the dialogue between Palpatine and Vader in Empire when the emperor says he has felt a disturbance in the force, and Vader says he has felt it as well (in reference to Luke).

The difference being that the Emperor and Vader had that conversation after Luke appeared on the scene. The 'awakening' conversation happened before Rey started using the Force, so shouldn't refer to her. (I say shouldn't, rather than couldn't, because I'm not absolutely confident in the team who made this one.)

 

[Bedrockgames]

The difference being that the Emperor and Vader had that conversation after Luke appeared on the scene. The 'awakening' conversation happened before Rey started using the Force, so shouldn't refer to her. (I say shouldn't, rather than couldn't, because I'm not absolutely confident in the team who made this one.)

I'd have to watch the movie again to put the timeline in correct order, but my recollection was that happened after she tried to pick up the light saber (which is where I assumed the awakening to begin). However I could be wrong, since i am a little fuzzy on the order. But don't know for sure when the awakening began with her (it could have been as early as when she flew the Falcon). We know it culminated with her using her force abilities, but I could buy that Snoke felt something awakening in her much earlier as her adventure began).

I don't share you lack of confidence personally. Frankly I thought this was better than Jedi or A New Hope (Not better than Empire though). I haven't enjoyed a film this much in ages. So for me, the team was doing something right.

 

[delericho]

I'd have to watch the movie again to put the timeline in correct order, but my recollection was that happened after she tried to pick up the light saber (which is where I assumed the awakening to begin).

Ah, yes. You're right.

I don't share you lack of confidence personally. Frankly I thought this was better than Jedi or A New Hope (Not better than Empire though). I haven't enjoyed a film this much in ages. So for me, the team was doing something right.

I enjoyed the film. I'm just not convinced they've locked down every aspect of continuity - my experience is that JJA tends to be more interested in getting to cool visual and running things so fast the audience is blown away than he is with making sure it stands up to much scrutiny.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I enjoyed the film. I'm just not convinced they've locked down every aspect of continuity - my experience is that JJA tends to be more interested in getting to cool visual and running things so fast the audience is blown away than he is with making sure it stands up to much scrutiny.

i have to be honest, even though I like Star Trek, I have not seen the Star Trek reboots and am not certain what other Abrahms films I may have seen (though I liked regarding Henry and know he was involved in that somehow). So I can't comment based on the history of the team. You may well be correct. I got the sense that continuity with the series was important to them watching this film...but whether internal consistency is more important that coolness, I can't say for sure until we see the next movie (because we have some mysteries they could choose to hand wave or explain). I did just see a new hope and empire again and those films definitely have consistency issues and suspension of disbelief issues as well if one is inclined to probe them. There is no doubt in my mind that some of the twists were decided later and don't really align with earlier material (unless Lucas was invoking incest deliberately, which I doubt, he made them twins for Jedi because it made for a better plot, but the viewer has to disregard or explain things like that deep kiss).

 

[Umbran]

There is no doubt in my mind that some of the twists were decided later and don't really align with earlier material (unless Lucas was invoking incest deliberately, which I doubt, he made them twins for Jedi because it made for a better plot, but the viewer has to disregard or explain things like that deep kiss).

There's nothing to explain - they didn't know they were siblings at the time.

 

[Bedrockgames]

There's nothing to explain - they didn't know they were siblings at the time.

Personally I don't find that a satisfactory explanation. I understand that genetic sexual attraction is a thing and that bit within the film, you could say they don't know they are brother and sister so that is why it happened. But it seems like a strong indication that Lucas didn't initially intend them to be brother and sister. I really doubt he was making a case for genetic sexual attraction with that moment. There are two possibilities here: he knew they were siblings when they kissed (which seems a very unusual choice for a film like star wars) or he didn't know (which to me makes a lot more sense). I suppose he also could have been undecided on the matter, but even then, having that kiss scene there...people can explain it, to me it really seems like he was intending a love triangle and went another direction when he did Jedi (in the end a better direction and one that worked brilliantly, but still not the initial direction). My point isn't that this harms the film (it is a soap opera in space for crying out loud), I'm just making the point that it isn't like the Star Wars films have always been airtight and devoid of inconsistency. Lots of things were hand waved in the original trilogy and lots of events that were convenient to the plot took place (though many of them could indeed be explained as brought about by the Force).

 

[Umbran]

I understand that genetic sexual attraction is a thing

You don't need genetic sexual attraction* to be a thing. You simply need them to not know they are siblings. Humans have no innate significant mechanism for detecting close relatives they didn't grow up with! There is no way for them to select *against* their siblings if they don't know them!

I agree that, as a filmmaker, I don't think Lucas had decided to have them be siblings when he wrote that kiss. But it isn't like it needs some deep explanation to handle. They were two people who had just met, who found a bit of an emotional connection in a stressful situation. Over time, that connection didn't develop. Leia went with Han (who, by what we've seen, looks more like Bail Organa!), so there's no real big deal.

I'm just making the point that it isn't like the Star Wars films have always been airtight and devoid of inconsistency.

I'd agree with that. Star Wars is not, say, B5, with a well-developed arc set before any production began.





*For those who don't know the term - it is the tendency for humans to be attracted to people who they have never met, but are genetically closely related to them. The name is a little misleading - humans have a tendency to be attracted to people who are phenotypically similar to the parent who raised you of the opposite sex. If you are a man, you'll tend to be attracted to women who looked like the woman who raised you. As I understand it, this holds even if you, as an infant, were adopted by parents of another race - a Caucasian male child adopted by Asian parents will tend to be attracted to Asian women. It isn't so much "genetic attraction," as an imprinting when you are young. I'm told this holds even if you are gay or lesbian - a lesbian woman has a tendency to be attracted to women who look like their fathers. In this sense, genetic sexual attraction really shouldn't apply, as Luke and Leia didn't grow up with their natural parents! Unless Luke looks like Bail Organa and Leia looks like Aunt Beru!

There is also a tendency for humans to be attracted to people who are somewhat similar to us - intelligent people tend to be attracted to intelligent people, musical people tend to be attracted to musical people, and so on. Both this, and the imprinting, are small tendencies, often overridden by other factors.

If you *know* your close genetic relatives, there is an imprinting that has the opposite effect - if you grew up with your siblings, you'll tend to not be attracted to them.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I agree that, as a filmmaker, I don't think Lucas had decided to have them be siblings when he wrote that kiss. But it isn't like it needs some deep explanation to handle. They were two people who had just met, who found a bit of an emotional connection in a stressful situation. Over time, that connection didn't develop. Leia went with Han (who, by what we've seen, looks more like Bail Organa!), so there's no real big deal..
.

To you it might not be. But pretty much everyone who watches the trilogy notices, and for me, sensing that it wasn't clear really stands out and is hard to just dismiss as no big deal. It doesn't ruin the film or anything, it is actually a pretty amusing side note, but it definitely stands out as a weird bump in the story line that they obviously didn't intend. You can point to how there is no reason for it to be an issue, but I think anyone who has siblings is going to react to that on a gut level.