Spoilers Star Wars: The Acolyte [Spoilers]

[Reynard]

---MATH ERROR DETECTED---

It wasn't an error. It was intentional. The extra hour still isn't long form storytelling.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

What are you talking about? I'm looking at my two-volume Trek Encyclopedia right now, it has encyclopedia entries from every series at the time of printing, and none of it is stuff that didn't appear in the episodes, except the occasional afterword in an entry set off by italics.

Yes, Encyclopaedia was written after the series and added lore that did not exist at the time of first broadcast. The shows were not about worldbuilding. It did not matter how warp drive worked or how long to to to travel from Earth to Vulcan at warp 3. DS9 did some worldbuilding, but that was much later.

One thing about Shakespeare (I compared the Acolyte to Shakespearian tragedy in an earlier post) is he doesn't do any worldbuilding. Even when he is writing about ancient Rome. That's why his plays are often relocated to different settings.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yes, Encyclopaedia was written after the series and added lore that did not exist at the time of first broadcast. The shows were not about worldbuilding. It did not matter how warp drive worked or how long to to to travel from Earth to Vulcan at warp 3. DS9 did some worldbuilding, but that was much later.

One thing about Shakespeare (I compared the Acolyte to Shakespearian tragedy in an earlier post) is he doesn't do any worldbuilding. Even when he is writing about ancient Rome. That's why his plays are often relocated to different settings.

But that lore did exist in episodes of one series or another, prior to the book bring published. Every episode of every series adds details to the world. If that doesn't matter to you that's fine, but it still happened regardless.

 

[damiller]

I disagree. The show is pathetically short and lacks the time to develop the characters or connective tissue for the plot. They have maybe a 2 hour movie that they are stretching as far as possible to 8 tiny episodes that are unsatisfying and frustrating.

And I disagree with this. I don't think it is pathetically short, nor lacks connective tissue for the plot. I am invested in these characters, and the story they are in. I find the show both engaging and has emotinal depth. I feel the tensions they are creating between Sol, Mae, Osha, Qimir, as well as the Jedi Order itself. I think they are doing this with an incredible economy that makes these shows outstanding.

And above all, unlike any other Star Wars TV show I can think of, this is essentially self contained. I know nothing of the High Republic and yet, I don't feel like I am not understanding what is going on. That is not true for Ashoka, Andor, or Kenobi. All of those almost require the viewer to have/need some prior investment to care.

Also, for the game masters in the thread: I've put together a session 0 tool. Its a series of tropes with a checklist below each trope that your players can check so you can see which tropes and how much of each your players want to see (its a google doc): Trope Sheet

 

[Paul Farquhar]

But that lore did exist in episodes of one series or another, prior to the book bring published. Every episode of every series adds details to the world. If that doesn't matter to you that's fine, but it still happened regardless.

No, it didn't. The encyclopaedia writers looked at things like prop details and bits of dialogue and the turned it into lore. But when the show was made it was just the set designer saying "this looks good here". They were making a weekly TV show, not building a world.

 

[Micah Sweet]

No, it didn't. The encyclopaedia writers looked at things like prop details and bits of dialogue and the turned it into lore. But when the show was made it was just the set designer saying "this looks good here". They were making a weekly TV show, not building a world.

All of which existed in the episodes as aired. You don't have to care. The creators don't have to care. It all still happened.

 

[Ryujin]

No, it didn't. The encyclopaedia writers looked at things like prop details and bits of dialogue and the turned it into lore. But when the show was made it was just the set designer saying "this looks good here". They were making a weekly TV show, not building a world.

To paraphrase, "Tommy, they designed the controls by watching you."

 

[Ruin Explorer]

That is not true for Ashoka, Andor, or Kenobi. All of those almost require the viewer to have/need some prior investment to care.

Andor works if you didn't like or watch Rogue One - I know because I have friends who fall into both categories (and I fall into the first), and loved Andor. naughty word one of my friends had never intentionally watched anything Star Wars-related before and loved Andor (I don't think he's even seen all of any of the movies, only bits and bobs when they were on TV).

However, its ending will essentially be Rogue One, so presumably they will all end up watching that and going "Why is this so crap compared to Andor?!" (because god love it, Rogue One is not a good movie on any level except possibly visual design/style, and even then only if you ignore some incredibly awful CGI, which was done with the dumbest possible approach to CGI). They really need to let Tony Gilroy "do a Lucas" to Rogue One and see if he can punch it up a bit further without reshoots, just by re-editing, re-scoring, redoing CGI, and so on.

Also the general point is certainly correct. Obi-Wan is a pretty bad TV show that only works at all if you care about Obi-Wan, Leia, etc. from the movies, and Ahsoka is an even worse example because it actively eschews explaining or contextualizing stuff for new viewers, and just expects you to have watched either all of, or a significant amount of, Rebels, a kid-oriented TV show which ended 6 years ago, and is kind of just a sequence of bizarre events if you didn't.

 

[damiller]

Andor works if you didn't like or watch Rogue One - I know because I have friends who fall into both categories (and I fall into the first), and loved Andor. naughty word one of my friends had never intentionally watched anything Star Wars-related before and loved Andor (I don't think he's even seen all of any of the movies, only bits and bobs when they were on TV).

However, its ending will essentially be Rogue One, so presumably they will all end up watching that and going "Why is this so crap compared to Andor?!" (because god love it, Rogue One is not a good movie on any level except possibly visual design/style, and even then only if you ignore some incredibly awful CGI, which was done with the dumbest possible approach to CGI). They really need to let Tony Gilroy "do a Lucas" to Rogue One and see if he can punch it up a bit further without reshoots, just by re-editing, re-scoring, redoing CGI, and so on.

Also the general point is certainly correct. Obi-Wan is a pretty bad TV show that only works at all if you care about Obi-Wan, Leia, etc. from the movies, and Ahsoka is an even worse example because it actively eschews explaining or contextualizing stuff for new viewers, and just expects you to have watched either all of, or a significant amount of, Rebels, a kid-oriented TV show which ended 6 years ago, and is kind of just a sequence of bizarre events if you didn't.

Yea, i'll agree with Andor, it was the weakest of my points. I should have listed it first, then obiwan then ashoka. In fact the only part I really ever watched of Ashoka was the parts with Anakin. I found it interesting from a jungian psychological angle. Otherwise, I could have cared less about anything in that show.

Same I guess for Obi wan, the parts I really like, and really remember where Obiwan and Vader. I thought Hayden really brought that character to life, especially after his mask was half blown off. WOW. I got some serious villain vibes!!!

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Andor works if you didn't like or watch Rogue One - I know because I have friends who fall into both categories (and I fall into the first), and loved Andor

Interesting theory, I liked Rogue One but was mostly bored by Andor (apart from when Stellan Skarsgard or Fiona Shaw where on screen), so I guess that fits.