Star Wars to Star Wars

[pawsplay]

So the new Saga edition of Star Wars:

- handles non-Jedi force users in a more freeform fashion
- reduces the classes to a smaller number of ready to play archetypes
- simplifies skills to a smaller number, and assumes heroes are competent to some degree at all skills
- has wound levels

Is it just my imagination or is Star Wars d20 becoming Star Wars D6?

 

[Remathilis]

Getting closer...

beyond the obvious differences (conflict resolution, stats and generation) I think you are are on to something. The biggest problem with older SW d20 systems was the assumption that "D&D in space" would work mechanically to simulate cinematic space opera. Now, the system is becoming more accommodating to the feel of SW and particularly the d6 WEG feel of the expanded the Star Wars Universe as much as any author or element (beyond Lucas himself).

I think its a step in the right direction, and if they can marry the simplicity of d20 resolution mechanics with the cinematic qualities of WEG, then I will be a happy camper.

 

[pawsplay]

I kind of liked "D&D in Spaaaace." Most of things I did not like about d20 Star Wars (Vitality points, excessive use of easy to enter PrCs, strange Skill-based Force mechanics) were departures from D&D.

But I am also a big fan of D6, and I do not think Saga is going to come anywhere close.

 

[Gentlegamer]

I think the analogy has merit, but probably more from a central goal of both systems of emulating the genre subject matter in RPG form. It's just that the d20 is just now really seeking that goal instead of merely slapping Star Wars names onto its mechanics.

 

[pawsplay]

I think the analogy has merit, but probably more from a central goal of both systems of emulating the genre subject matter in RPG form. It's just that the d20 is just now really seeking that goal instead of merely slapping Star Wars names onto its mechanics.

I disagree. I think it has more to do with having some D6 Star Wars people on board. There are a lot of reasons to think their assumptions are suspect... does anyone really think Han has a good Bluff for his level? And how do you differentiate a pilot of uncanny skill, like Han or Anakin, from someone who is merely fantastic, like Lando or Sebulba?

I think the design team was asking, "What did people like about the old Star Wars that worked?" rather than coincidentally coming upon similar mechanisms in trying to emulate a particular genre.

Most action games will do Star Wars, if you "slap on" some names. I will agree that some games are better suited for Star Wars. But I think they could just as easily have gone the other way; strip it down, adapt d20 Modern rules, tweak damage effects slightly, base the Force on 3.5 psionics or engineer a new system, and so forth. The problem was not that the d20 RCR version is "anti-Star Wars," but that it is in many ways a flawed game.

Hero is an excellent, excellent game for Star Wars, but you will find it is in every way the opposite of the Saga changes; highly specific skills, lots of customization, fiddly modifiers, highly specific maneuvers and abilities, discrete wound and status effects.

Saga is designed to do Star Wars in a certain way. They could just as easily have taken d20 RCR back into the shop and done something else with it. "D&D in Spaaaace" has been pretty popular. With a good game engine, it could be moreso.

 

[Desdichado]

I think a) that that's pushing the analogy way too far; those similarities are only superficial and minor compared to the differences that still exist between the two systems, and b) calling any d20 game "D&D in XXXX" is pretty wildly inaccurate too. Star Wars d20 never felt much like D&D to me; anymore than Call of Cthulhu d20 did.

 

[Gentlegamer]

I disagree. I think it has more to do with having some D6 Star Wars people on board. There are a lot of reasons to think their assumptions are suspect... does anyone really think Han has a good Bluff for his level?

You mean Deception? Whatever his "skill level," he probably just failed his roll. Like on Endor, he failed his Stealth roll sneaking up on the Imperials. Or Lando, failing his Pilot roll and busting the dish off the Falcon. Even the heroes fail skill rolls sometimes.

And how do you differentiate a pilot of uncanny skill, like Han or Anakin, from someone who is merely fantastic, like Lando or Sebulba?

talents and feats

I think the design team was asking, "What did people like about the old Star Wars that worked?" rather than coincidentally coming upon similar mechanisms in trying to emulate a particular genre.

You may be right, so far it doesn't appear that way to me.

As for "D&D in Spaaaaace!" . . . isn't that Spelljammer?

 

[Victim]

Getting closer...

beyond the obvious differences (conflict resolution, stats and generation) I think you are are on to something. The biggest problem with older SW d20 systems was the assumption that "D&D in space" would work mechanically to simulate cinematic space opera.

I think DnD in space would have worked better than either of the previous d20 SW games, sadly.

 

[MerricB]

So the new Saga edition of Star Wars:

- simplifies skills to a smaller number, and assumes heroes are competent to some degree at all skills

Is it just my imagination or is Star Wars d20 becoming Star Wars D6?

If it were Star Wars d6, it wouldn't be as you describe above. Star Wars d6 had a *lot* of skills - I'm going to hazard a guess at 30+.

d20 actually has PCs competent at all "non-trained" skills, but the DCs can scale out of proportion quickly, which is something that SAGA seems to address.

Cheers!

 

[pawsplay]

If it were Star Wars d6, it wouldn't be as you describe above. Star Wars d6 had a *lot* of skills - I'm going to hazard a guess at 30+.

Many of which would be weapon and vehicle proficiencies, BAB, and saving throws under d20. No comparison, D6 is a very compact game, skillswise. Even the 2e expansion of the skill list is not huge. Most D6 characters can be fit on the front of a notecard ... even Darth Vader would just take front and back.