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Star Wars What I Would Have Done

Hussar

Legend
/snip

As for Phasma the actor helps and you answered your own question. If you wanted a positive example of a great female character she had potential. I like Hux as a villain to but they wrote them like chumps. Basically you don't end up caring about any of the villains or the protagonists. Even Fett had his moment of glory.

Who's the actor?

What was Fett's moment of glory? "He's no good to me dead?" or when he goes all Three Stooges and gets killed by a blind Han Solo?
 

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Zardnaar

Legend
On screen, she was never a spoiled princess. She was a confident Rebel and also a Princess from the moment we see her - it's probably what Han and Luke (definitely Han) think she is, but her actions pretty much show her as resourceful. However, she still has some things to struggle with - like losing her entire homeworld in front of her eyes to a power demonstration, despite her trying her best possible in the situation to trick Tarkin into thinking he got what he wanted and spare her world.

The spoiled princess thing was how she talked to the characters on the Death Star in ANH. Spoiled might not be thw right way but she was speaking down to the heroes and came across as a princess- which was what she was.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
I've been a huge fan of Star Wars for almost my entire life and I cannot think of any single way Rey's character runs against the established grain of the universe as established by the movies.



I don't really keep up with behind-the-scenes antics of any of the media I consume. For the most part I just care about the final product.



Ren doesn't seem particularly incompetent to me. By the end of the second movie he's maneuvered himself into the supreme leader's position.



Rey is a new character not an old character written in a different way. Nor is she a character that doesn't fit into the Star Wars milieu. Nothing about Rey is what I wouldn't expect in a Star Wars movie. If she wasn't a woman I don't think anyone would even be having this conversation. For example, nobody seems upset that Fin knew how to fight with a lightsaber.

It wasn't Rey who did a 180 it was Lukes portrayal in TLJ.

Finn defeated a stormtrooper, they're mooks. He swing the lightsaber like a club and Kylo pwned him hard. His character also does a 180 i TLJ and goes back to where he was at the start of TFA. And the plot hole of him piloting in TLJ and in TFA he needed Poe to pilot.

In TFA, Rey is untrained and she uses mind trick and seems quite good with the lightsaber. Untrained. You know that whole plot point over 2 movies in ANH and ESB along with the padawans we saw in the prequels. Or Obi Wans lines about taking it on himself to train Anakin. You want to be a Jedi you get trained its kind of a big thing in the 1st 6 movies.
 
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Zardnaar

Legend
Who's the actor?

What was Fett's moment of glory? "He's no good to me dead?" or when he goes all Three Stooges and gets killed by a blind Han Solo?

Phasma's actor was Gwendoline Christie, she plays Brienne of Tarth in Game of Thrones. Briene is insanely popular in that show along with Arya and Tyrion. Shes a Knight and a badass, then gets used like a chump in TLJ.

Vader puts Fett over as a badass in ESB and he did alright in ESB overall.

His death in Jedi was stupid, but the character was popular enough they gave him a backstory in the prequels.
 

Hussar

Legend
Phasma's actor was Gwendoline Christie, she plays Brienne of Tarth in Game of Thrones. Briene is insanely popular in that show along with Arya and Tyrion. Shes a Knight and a badass, then gets used like a chump in TLJ.

Vader puts Fett over as a badass in ESB and he did alright in ESB overall.

His death in Jedi was stupid, but the character was popular enough they gave him a backstory in the prequels.

Ahh. I think I mentioned earlier that I have no interest in Game of Thrones. :D

So, why aren't people pissed off that Daniel Craig only got one line? Insanely good actor completely wasted. Seems that if wasting talent was an issue, then that should be one too. Phasma is a bit character. Star Wars is full of bit characters.

The problem is, over the years, people have built entire storylines out of these throw away characters and suddenly, the rest of us are supposed to care about the castles in the air that "fans" have created.

Like I said earlier, I judge the movies on their own merits, not based on my expectations or based on what I think the movies "should have been". Pretty much every criteria you've talked about [MENTION=6716779]Zardnaar[/MENTION] makes me shrug and I quite honestly don't care.

Rey's a Mary Sue? In Star Wars? The hell you say. When a farm boy with zero training, gets, what, a month, two months of training and suddenly he can duel with someone who has been mastering sword fighting for decades. Yeah, that's totally believable. But, a character who has been fighting for survival her whole life, demonstrably with hand to hand weapons, barely survives a fight with a gravely wounded young swordsman and she's a Mary Sue.

Uh huh. Yeah, I'm going to go back to enjoying the movies for what they are.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Ahh. I think I mentioned earlier that I have no interest in Game of Thrones. :D

So, why aren't people pissed off that Daniel Craig only got one line? Insanely good actor completely wasted. Seems that if wasting talent was an issue, then that should be one too. Phasma is a bit character. Star Wars is full of bit characters.

The problem is, over the years, people have built entire storylines out of these throw away characters and suddenly, the rest of us are supposed to care about the castles in the air that "fans" have created.

Like I said earlier, I judge the movies on their own merits, not based on my expectations or based on what I think the movies "should have been". Pretty much every criteria you've talked about [MENTION=6716779]Zardnaar[/MENTION] makes me shrug and I quite honestly don't care.

Rey's a Mary Sue? In Star Wars? The hell you say. When a farm boy with zero training, gets, what, a month, two months of training and suddenly he can duel with someone who has been mastering sword fighting for decades. Yeah, that's totally believable. But, a character who has been fighting for survival her whole life, demonstrably with hand to hand weapons, barely survives a fight with a gravely wounded young swordsman and she's a Mary Sue.

Uh huh. Yeah, I'm going to go back to enjoying the movies for what they are.

3 or 4 year gap with Luke. And you seen see the differences between Luke and Rey onscreen. Rey's good at everything and she is way ahead of Luke with 0 training. Have a look at ESB for example and Luke struggling to pull his lightsaber out of the ice or Levitate rocks. Rey snaps a lightsaber and is doing Yoda levels of levitation at the end of TLJ and he is a Jedi Master.

That is the difference. Rey is ahead of Luke right in TFA, his used very few force powers even as late as RoTJ where he uses mind trick. Rey uses that in TFA just because.

Movie 1 vs movie 3.

Daniel Craig was a cameo, IIRC he was a stormtrooper and it was an easter egg. The Game of Thrones comparison was more to point out you can make an interesting powerful female character without a heap of plot holes or booking her like superman and essentially throwing away established tropes from the 1st 6 movies+ The Clone Wars.
 


billd91

Hobbit on Quest (he/him)
The spoiled princess thing was how she talked to the characters on the Death Star in ANH. Spoiled might not be thw right way but she was speaking down to the heroes and came across as a princess- which was what she was.

If it was a man, he’d be decisive and commanding, not spoiled.
 


Zardnaar

Legend
If it was a man, he’d be decisive and commanding, not spoiled.

A hole maybe. She was patroising iirc. Luke was kinda annoying in ANH. Han stole the show. Leia and Luke were better in ESB. Daisy is better at expressing emotions than Carrie, Mark and Hayden at least early on. Rey and Kylo looked like we're trying to kill each other I thought it was better than the dance they did in TLJ.
 
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billd91

Hobbit on Quest (he/him)
3 or 4 year gap with Luke. And you seen see the differences between Luke and Rey onscreen. Rey's good at everything and she is way ahead of Luke with 0 training. Have a look at ESB for example and Luke struggling to pull his lightsaber out of the ice or Levitate rocks. Rey snaps a lightsaber and is doing Yoda levels of levitation at the end of TLJ and he is a Jedi Master.

That is the difference. Rey is ahead of Luke right in TFA, his used very few force powers even as late as RoTJ where he uses mind trick. Rey uses that in TFA just because.

Movie 1 vs movie 3.

Daniel Craig was a cameo, IIRC he was a stormtrooper and it was an easter egg. The Game of Thrones comparison was more to point out you can make an interesting powerful female character without a heap of plot holes or booking her like superman and essentially throwing away established tropes from the 1st 6 movies+ The Clone Wars.

There is so much BS in all of this. I just watched TFA again and Rey is not good at everything. She’s action-movie competent, like every other protagonist in an action movie and not a bit more than Luke and a hell of a lot less than Anakin in Phantom Menace.
She gets clobbered by Kylo Ren twice and fights him to a draw AFTER he’s already been badly wounded by Chewie and further wounded by Finn.
Tropes are not thrown away, even in TLJ. They’re subverted and that means they’re definitely addressed.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
There is so much BS in all of this. I just watched TFA again and Rey is not good at everything. She’s action-movie competent, like every other protagonist in an action movie and not a bit more than Luke and a hell of a lot less than Anakin in Phantom Menace.
She gets clobbered by Kylo Ren twice and fights him to a draw AFTER he’s already been badly wounded by Chewie and further wounded by Finn.
Tropes are not thrown away, even in TLJ. They’re subverted and that means they’re definitely addressed.

Subverted badly. TFA is overall a good movie I rewartched it recently as well.

It did kind of make TLJ that much worse though. JJ Abrams put so many good plot hooks to follow up on and they basically threw them away. There's not a lot to build on now. Kylo has gone back and forth to often and loses, Finn went backwards, Poe's an a hole, and it's like Rian didn't even watch TFA.

Will people care enough now the 3 legacy characters are dead Well Carrie IRL). They can force ghost in Luke and use recycled TFA footage for Carrie.

I'll put it another way. In 20 years time will these $2 and $3 clear out action figures gonna be worth much like Fett in the late 90's. How much is a 20 year old Jar Jar figure worth these days.

My main point is Rey, Phasma and Kylo could all have been really great characters comparable to the originals. Phasma got used as comic relief in TFA, Kylo eh Sith wannabe he can polish Vader's boots and there's not a lot of emotion to tie back to Rey despite Daisy being very good at expressing it. There's no real connection bbetween her and Kylo or the OT.
 
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billd91

Hobbit on Quest (he/him)
Subverted badly. TFA is overall a good movie I rewartched it recently as well.

It did kind of make TLJ that much worse though. JJ Abrams put so many good plot hooks to follow up on and they basically threw them away. There's not a lot to build on now. Kylo has gone back and forth to often and loses, Finn went backwards, Poe's an a hole, and it's like Rian didn't even watch TFA.

So... it’s like ESB. Luke is missing a hand, Han is frozen, and the Republic is on the run. Honestly, the double-standard.
 


Zardnaar

Legend
So... it’s like ESB. Luke is missing a hand, Han is frozen, and the Republic is on the run. Honestly, the double-standard.

You had Vader still being an effective villain the I am your father reveal and the rebels had a fleet. And the Emperor was also revealed and the Empire had the SSD. And Fett wasn't comic relief. Compelling villains work.

Rey you're a nobody, entire resistance on the falcon and a weak villain. Sure they can probably pull a fleet out of their butt or have Rey force throw a Star Destroyer but there the closing scene of Empire was great.
 

Legatus Legionis

< BLAH HA Ha ha >
Personally, why can't we give Episode VIII the same treatment as what befell The Star Wars Holiday Special (1978)?

Then JJ (and we the fans) can get the proper sequel to TFA.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Personally, why can't we give Episode VIII the same treatment as what befell The Star Wars Holiday Special (1978)?

Then JJ (and we the fans) can get the proper sequel to TFA.

It wasn't that bad.

I'll put it another way. I would bet dollars to donuts that in 10 or 20 years time no one is going to care about these characters while we will still be able to buy a worlds best dad Vader T-shirt. They will all be about a relevant as a Hayden Christian Anakin portrayal. And it could have been different. Even if you don't agree with my opinion about TLJ, does anyone here think I am wrong about this?
 


GreyLord

Hero
Subverted badly. TFA is overall a good movie I rewartched it recently as well.

It did kind of make TLJ that much worse though. JJ Abrams put so many good plot hooks to follow up on and they basically threw them away. There's not a lot to build on now. Kylo has gone back and forth to often and loses, Finn went backwards, Poe's an a hole, and it's like Rian didn't even watch TFA.

Will people care enough now the 3 legacy characters are dead Well Carrie IRL). They can force ghost in Luke and use recycled TFA footage for Carrie.

I'll put it another way. In 20 years time will these $2 and $3 clear out action figures gonna be worth much like Fett in the late 90's. How much is a 20 year old Jar Jar figure worth these days.

My main point is Rey, Phasma and Kylo could all have been really great characters comparable to the originals. Phasma got used as comic relief in TFA, Kylo eh Sith wannabe he can polish Vader's boots and there's not a lot of emotion to tie back to Rey despite Daisy being very good at expressing it. There's no real connection bbetween her and Kylo or the OT.

I do not know how much the action figures will be worth in a few decades.

I have complimentary figures of most, and I'm keeping the Rey and Rose and Jyn figures as the highest bets considering some of the lesser bought figures of the early Star Wars figure days went up pretty nicely in value. A Princess Leia still in packaging and in mint can get several hundred dollars.

Rey or Rose may not be worth that much seeing how the toy lines are doing (and drives my perception that the overall attitude is basically not hate, nor love, but MEH from the general audiences today) but I wouldn't be surprised for them to get over 60-70 for a figure (though, unironically I'll probably be DEAD by that time) in 30-40 years.

I'd imagine that there will be some nostalgia (always is, even for movies that completely stink, or for figures that no one really thought would be worth squat, but several decades later are worth something today).

That doesn't help the Toy Companies bottom line today...but it's crazy how many toys become collectibles 30 years later.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
I do not know how much the action figures will be worth in a few decades.

I have complimentary figures of most, and I'm keeping the Rey and Rose and Jyn figures as the highest bets considering some of the lesser bought figures of the early Star Wars figure days went up pretty nicely in value. A Princess Leia still in packaging and in mint can get several hundred dollars.

Rey or Rose may not be worth that much seeing how the toy lines are doing (and drives my perception that the overall attitude is basically not hate, nor love, but MEH from the general audiences today) but I wouldn't be surprised for them to get over 60-70 for a figure (though, unironically I'll probably be DEAD by that time) in 30-40 years.

I'd imagine that there will be some nostalgia (always is, even for movies that completely stink, or for figures that no one really thought would be worth squat, but several decades later are worth something today).

That doesn't help the Toy Companies bottom line today...but it's crazy how many toys become collectibles 30 years later.

Maybe got an old school Fett floating around anywhere?

Phasma, Rey and Kylo had potential. Rey has no character flaws and is a paragon of virtue and she seems to be immune to dark side temptation, even Luke was brash and impulsive and lost his temper. Phasma comic relief and Kylo Darth Crybaby (lite). Can't recall much like htis in the new trilogy.


[video=youtube;07DiRUvD2Hk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07DiRUvD2Hk[/video]
World building.
 

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