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Star Wars What I Would Have Done

You may want to watch that movie again, Luke gets saved from the professional elite pilots by Han.

If it was Rey then she would have just killed them all herself while all the other X-Wings watch, she is that good.

You may want to watch that movie again. Luke gets saved from Darth Vader by Han. He more than holds his own with the normal pros.

If it was Rey she'd have had something like a home field advantage to use to even the odds in her favour.
 

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Shasarak

Banned
Banned
You may want to watch that movie again. Luke gets saved from Darth Vader by Han. He more than holds his own with the normal pros.

If it was Rey she'd have had something like a home field advantage to use to even the odds in her favour.

If we look at Lukes character arc the first thing that we see is him getting ambushed by Tusken Raiders and saved by Obi-Wan and the last thing we see is him attacking the Death Star with all the other Rebels.

In contrast Reys character arc starts off defeating the elite professional Tie Fighters in a ship that she just stole and then her arc ends in her defeating a Dark Jedi in a Light Saber duel.

So where is her growth in that? She starts off awesome and ends up awesome. You can not get more Mary Sue then that unless she managed to blow up the Super Death Star while at the same time defeating Kylo.
 

If we look at Lukes character arc the first thing that we see is him getting ambushed by Tusken Raiders and saved by Obi-Wan and the last thing we see is him attacking the Death Star with all the other Rebels.

In contrast Reys character arc starts off defeating the elite professional Tie Fighters in a ship that she just stole and then her arc ends in her defeating a Dark Jedi in a Light Saber duel.

So where is her growth in that? She starts off awesome and ends up awesome. You can not get more Mary Sue then that unless she managed to blow up the Super Death Star while at the same time defeating Kylo.

If we look at Rey's character arc, it comes with her finding and then starting to sell BB-8. Power doesn't make a character arc, choices do. Unlike Luke she doesn't have a motivation "Follow The Plot".

Meanwhile, unlike Luke, she needs a very substantial home ground advantage to deal with the TIE fighters (who unlike in ANH aren't on the new elite ship of the Empire) in a ship she at least flubs on take-off, that can and does take multiple hits, and using tactics from Finn.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
I don't think anyone would care that much about Rey being awesome on occasion. She's always awesome I s the issue. Luke spent the first half of the Trilogy always being saved. Sure he had his spots but he wasn't that over the top. Gets beaten by Tuskans , Han saves him, and he gets mauled by. Wompa nauls him Han saves him again.
 


Shasarak

Banned
Banned
If we look at Rey's character arc, it comes with her finding and then starting to sell BB-8. Power doesn't make a character arc, choices do. Unlike Luke she doesn't have a motivation "Follow The Plot".

Meanwhile, unlike Luke, she needs a very substantial home ground advantage to deal with the TIE fighters (who unlike in ANH aren't on the new elite ship of the Empire) in a ship she at least flubs on take-off, that can and does take multiple hits, and using tactics from Finn.

How can she have a "home ground advantage" when she does not fly around her home ground? You know there is a pretty substansial difference between walking and flying right?. Luke had a "home ground advantage" and he still got punked.

It baffles me the amount of mental gymnastics that you have to go through to equate the two characters. You wring your hands about Luke and a bunch of X-Wings defeating professional Tie Fighters and at the same time give Rey a free pass because of "home ground advantage"?

By that logic the Tie Fighters in RotJ should have easily taken out Lando with their "home ground advantage"
 

billd91

Hobbit on Quest (he/him)
I don't think anyone would care that much about Rey being awesome on occasion. She's always awesome I s the issue. Luke spent the first half of the Trilogy always being saved. Sure he had his spots but he wasn't that over the top. Gets beaten by Tuskans , Han saves him, and he gets mauled by. Wompa nauls him Han saves him again.

But, of course, she's not, yet you will ignore all those instances in which she is because they won't fit your thesis.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
But, of course, she's not, yet you will ignore all those instances in which she is because they won't fit your thesis.

I pointed out the difference is in the way they were booked. Luke had people bailing him out, Luke had to get trained. It's not just Rey in that either the kid is also using powers untrained. They also made some effort to explain things and the world building.

And Darth Emo basically explains why Kylo is not s compelling villain. Rey can beat Kylo already there's no real reason to pay money to see Rey overcome him if she wins so what. Maybe the have sine sort of screwy finish. They don't even have that much if a connection unlike Vader and Luke or Anakin and Obi Wan. There's not much emotion there and you need that in a good Star Wars film.
 

How can she have a "home ground advantage" when she does not fly around her home ground? You know there is a pretty substansial difference between walking and flying right?. Luke had a "home ground advantage" and he still got punked.

It baffles me the amount of mental gymnastics that you have to go through to equate the two characters. You wring your hands about Luke and a bunch of X-Wings defeating professional Tie Fighters and at the same time give Rey a free pass because of "home ground advantage"?B y that logic the Tie Fighters in RotJ should have easily taken out Lando with their "home ground advantage"

Luke was in Tuskan Raider territory when when he got punked. And he wasn't trying to use his knowledge of the terrain.

But spelling things out for you, you are aware that Rey didn't walk everywhere? She had her own speeder. You also remember Finn told her to stay low because it messed up their tracking. That meant that Rey was flying the Millennium Falcon as if it was a speeder (in other words a type of vessel she flew every day) over terrain she flew over every day in a way she flew every day that the TIE fighters were ill-equipped to handle.

But that's not when the home ground advantage really kicked in. She led them first to and then through the bowels of the wrecked Star Destroyer that she spent every day looting in order to earn money. She knew where all the cover was and where the surprises were - and because of the fact she not just knew them but had been shown to know them (she didn't just walk round there, she speedered, and even climbed and abseiled onscreen) she had a significant advantage in how well she was able to use the terrain. And even with that advantage the Falcon took a number of hits, including locking out the quad laser and forcing her to push her knowledge of the terrain to the limit (rather than Finn going for the other quad laser, but possibly it wasn't repaired and possibly he would have been flung everywhere). So yes, home ground advantage in ways that were explicitly set up by the film.

[video=youtube;8sarFZJl3h0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sarFZJl3h0[/video]

And you'll notice that the Falcon took a number of hits - and how much bigger it is than the TIE fighters. Also TIE fighters might or might not have had a home ground advantage over Lando Calrisian; had they done operations in the center of the Death Star? I doubt it.

It baffles me just how much of what actually happened onscreen gets ignored by people in an effort to find criticisms of the new trilogy.

And Darth Emo basically explains why Kylo is not s compelling villain. Rey can beat Kylo already there's no real reason to pay money to see Rey overcome him if she wins so what. Maybe the have sine sort of screwy finish. They don't even have that much if a connection unlike Vader and Luke or Anakin and Obi Wan. There's not much emotion there and you need that in a good Star Wars film.

Darth Emo is the second most compelling villain in the entire Star Wars trilogy (and far more compelling than e.g. the Trade Federation, General Grievous, Count Dooku, Darth Maul, the more or less content free Boba Fett, or even Jabba the Hutt who was basically a miniboss). In third is Palpatine - and there's no one else in the same league. And being the second most memorable and compelling villain in a series that includes Darth Vader is quite an achievement, especially when you need to acknowledge Vader but can't make a retread. He won't win - but did you really expect the bad guys to win Return of the Jedi? On the other hand through a mix of malice and power he can potentially cause a vast amount of damage. He's going down but it won't be easy. And with the death of caffeine-free diet Palpatine he's off the leash.

And seriously, connection between Luke and Vader? It took them almost two films to get one with an ass-pull; "Luke, I am your father" wasn't in the original plan at all. But then Star Wars as written by George Lucas is a very bad film and one of the few films that editing can literally be said to have saved.

[video=youtube;GFMyMxMYDNk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFMyMxMYDNk[/video]
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Luke was in Tuskan Raider territory when when he got punked. And he wasn't trying to use his knowledge of the terrain.

But spelling things out for you, you are aware that Rey didn't walk everywhere? She had her own speeder. You also remember Finn told her to stay low because it messed up their tracking. That meant that Rey was flying the Millennium Falcon as if it was a speeder (in other words a type of vessel she flew every day) over terrain she flew over every day in a way she flew every day that the TIE fighters were ill-equipped to handle.

But that's not when the home ground advantage really kicked in. She led them first to and then through the bowels of the wrecked Star Destroyer that she spent every day looting in order to earn money. She knew where all the cover was and where the surprises were - and because of the fact she not just knew them but had been shown to know them (she didn't just walk round there, she speedered, and even climbed and abseiled onscreen) she had a significant advantage in how well she was able to use the terrain. And even with that advantage the Falcon took a number of hits, including locking out the quad laser and forcing her to push her knowledge of the terrain to the limit (rather than Finn going for the other quad laser, but possibly it wasn't repaired and possibly he would have been flung everywhere). So yes, home ground advantage in ways that were explicitly set up by the film.

[video=youtube;8sarFZJl3h0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sarFZJl3h0[/video]

And you'll notice that the Falcon took a number of hits - and how much bigger it is than the TIE fighters. Also TIE fighters might or might not have had a home ground advantage over Lando Calrisian; had they done operations in the center of the Death Star? I doubt it.

It baffles me just how much of what actually happened onscreen gets ignored by people in an effort to find criticisms of the new trilogy.



Darth Emo is the second most compelling villain in the entire Star Wars trilogy (and far more compelling than e.g. the Trade Federation, General Grievous, Count Dooku, Darth Maul, the more or less content free Boba Fett, or even Jabba the Hutt who was basically a miniboss). In third is Palpatine - and there's no one else in the same league. And being the second most memorable and compelling villain in a series that includes Darth Vader is quite an achievement, especially when you need to acknowledge Vader but can't make a retread. He won't win - but did you really expect the bad guys to win Return of the Jedi? On the other hand through a mix of malice and power he can potentially cause a vast amount of damage. He's going down but it won't be easy. And with the death of caffeine-free diet Palpatine he's off the leash.

And seriously, connection between Luke and Vader? It took them almost two films to get one with an ass-pull; "Luke, I am your father" wasn't in the original plan at all. But then Star Wars as written by George Lucas is a very bad film and one of the few films that editing can literally be said to have saved.

[video=youtube;GFMyMxMYDNk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFMyMxMYDNk[/video]

Darth Emo better than the Emperor lol. The guy who defeated Yoda and was a bad ass in the clone wars cartoon.

Jabba and Fett were minor villains.
 

Getting back to the original question… Star Wars, what would I have done differently?

Well, for starters, in Episode VII, I would have done a little worldbuilding. Specifically how large the First Order is, how large the Republic is, the fact the Resistance is really that tiny, etc.
Also, I probably would have avoided a big spherical planet destroying weapon that can be blown up by a fighter run along a trench.

The big issue with the franchise so far was Solo being released too soon and amidst heavy competition.
Were I looking at that movie I would have focused less on it being the Han Solo origin and more of a prequel that happened to include Solo as part of its ensemble. "The Kessel Job" or something, and really emphasise the heist aspect.

Really, the biggest problem with Star Wars right now isn’t the movies. It’s that China doesn’t give an eff about them. The second biggest box office in the world and Star Wars doesn’t translate. They lack the nostalgia and just don’t care.

Star Wars needs to focus less on big blockbusters and more smaller mid-budget pictures, where they can make a profit just from the national box office.
 

pukunui

Legend
Isn’t it obvious? Prior to Episode VII, the Force was asleep. People had to work hard (some harder than others) to tap into it. But now that the Force is awake, people can tap into it without as much training.

Personally I like Rey, but then I have three daughters, so I’m undoubtedly biased.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Isn’t it obvious? Prior to Episode VII, the Force was asleep. People had to work hard (some harder than others) to tap into it. But now that the Force is awake, people can tap into it without as much training.

Personally I like Rey, but then I have three daughters, so I’m undoubtedly biased.

Maybe but the scene in TFA seems to imply it's more Rey herself.

Legends did kind of touch on this but it came a bit out of left field in the movie. Before legends died they we're kind of going with a balance of the force.

If it's the force awakens overall wouldn't Kylo get more powerful? The Legends thing makes a bit more sense. Legends did kind of have this problem as well in terms of a protagonist for Luke especially as Luke became a Grandmaster.

If that's what they are going with they could have done a bit better in execution.
 
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Eltab

Lord of the Hidden Layer
This was ALWAYS going to happen. There was no way around it. To have a sequel you need conflict and drama. You need a problem to be solved. An enemy. The galaxy needs to be in danger.That inherently means the heroes had to fail. The Empire need to come back. There's no way around it beyond pulling a brand new unseen enemy out of your ass and forcing it into the world. And that almost never works and everyone would complain "this doesn't feel like Star Wars".
What Force Awakens did was to negate the heroes' efforts in the original trilogy.

What would have been better would be to put in Leia's mouth a short history lesson: the New Republic was strong, vibrant, chased the Empire to the fringes of the galaxy. As the next generation grew up, they knew not oppression or tyranny, turned inwards. They thought peace and prosperity were the natural order instead of things to be cultivated. -Briefly explain the political manipulations that winkled "the old lady" to the political wilderness.- The First Order is an Imperial successor splinter state. The New Republic of today is blind and happy, not paying attention to dangers on the Rim. A few people still remember and are trying to help, with the resources they can scavenge or persuade.

A short similar speech for Luke and Han. The core of their efforts is still there, but the direction is in somebody else's hands.

Btw, I would have Lando show up in IX, leading a group of not-very-organized Republic citizens who have volunteer-soldiered for the duration of the emergency (triggered by blowing up the Republic's capital world).
 

pukunui

Legend
Maybe but the scene in TFA seems to imply it's more Rey herself.
Maybe Rey is the real Chosen One, not Anakin. Maybe she's even an embodiment of the Force. The Force made flesh, as it were.

That said, Finn had an awakening. R2-D2 had an awakening. Maybe that stable boy in TLJ had an awakening too.

If that's what they are going with they could have done a bit better in execution.
I won't argue with that. There's a lot that could have been done better in execution ... in *all* the Star Wars movies, not just the latest ones.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Maybe Rey is the real Chosen One, not Anakin. Maybe she's even an embodiment of the Force. The Force made flesh, as it were.

That said, Finn had an awakening. R2-D2 had an awakening. Maybe that stable boy in TLJ had an awakening too.

I won't argue with that. There's a lot that could have been done better in execution ... in *all* the Star Wars movies, not just the latest ones.

I have had the thought she is the chosen one. It's a big retcon though borderline hamfisted and won't go down well. Do that you have mostly made the first 6 movies pointless.

You know the stuff people care about.
 

pukunui

Legend
Do that you have mostly made the first 6 movies pointless.
The galactic status quo as of the start of the new trilogy already more or less did that.

Plus, the whole Chosen One prophecy is in itself a retcon, since it only really comes up in the prequel era.
 

Ovinomancer

No flips for you!
The galactic status quo as of the start of the new trilogy already more or less did that.

Plus, the whole Chosen One prophecy is in itself a retcon, since it only really comes up in the prequel era.
Also, the chosen one was to balance the force, not be the strongest.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Out of the various force philosophies in canon, legends etc I think I like the balance best. The Sith or whatever will always be recreated through Jedi that fall.

Legends was hinting at that at the end of Fate of the Jedi which overall was a bit meh but the young Sith girl I liked and how they portrayed her temptation to the light with Ben.

Not much is original in the new ones;) The dark side temptation to the light is interesting.
 
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Hussar

Legend
/snip of a whole bunch of proper nouns that I have absolutely no idea what they refer to.

:lol: Sorry bud, but, you're going to have to drop the analogies. I loathe Game of Thrones, so, have zero idea what you're talking about. Never read any of the EU Star Wars stuff other than the Thrown books some twenty or thirty years ago. Maybe a handful of comic books?

See, I don't judge Star Wars based on a bunch of extraneous stuff that has zero connection to what's on the screen. I judge it by what I'm watching. And, so far, the movies have been pretty darn entertaining. Which, honestly, is all I want.
 

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