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Star Wars What I Would Have Done

Zardnaar

Legend
Jedi aren’t soldiers, nor is Ezra.

Whether teenagers are “children” is debatable (by the time he is fighting the empire, rather than just stealing and smuggling, he isn’t 14, so “14 year old Ezra Bridger” is entirely disengenuous) but no one asked Ezra to get himself in trouble that brought imperial trouble, and then end up being force sensitive in a universe where the government is hunting force sensitives. The imply that his story is remotely comparable to actual child soldiers, or a situation like Andor’s story in Rogue One, is insultingly nonsensical.

As for Jedi, no, it’s not the same as child soldiers. They are trained, and literally can leave if they want once they are trained enough to not be a accidentally dangerous. Child soldiers are children that are being made to fight as soldiers. I don’t know why you’re trying to muddy that with this nonsense about Jedi being child soldiers, but it is beyond the limits of my patience.

Presenting the Rebel Alliance as an organization that employs assassins that are unambiguously little children completely changes the moral character of the organization, and irreparably changes the nature of all stories that feature the Rebel Alliance.

Alliance using assassin's is fine. They had them in legends.

It's why I liked Rogue One it put the war into Star Wars
 

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billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him) 🇺🇦🇵🇸🏳️‍⚧️
Presenting the Rebel Alliance as an organization that employs assassins that are unambiguously little children completely changes the moral character of the organization, and irreparably changes the nature of all stories that feature the Rebel Alliance.

It’s pretty obvious you have a lot of emotional investment in this issue. But it’s beyond your control. With Rogue One, LucasFilm chose to inject some grayness into the white hat-ish Rebel Alliance. That is their right and many of us appreciated it and the complexities it adds to the setting.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Alliance using assassin's is fine. They had them in legends.

It's why I liked Rogue One it put the war into Star Wars

And Legends, thankfully, isn’t canon anymore.

It’s pretty obvious you have a lot of emotional investment in this issue. But it’s beyond your control. With Rogue One, LucasFilm chose to inject some grayness into the white hat-ish Rebel Alliance. That is their right and many of us appreciated it and the complexities it adds to the setting.

Lol I love it when someone tries to use the idea that someone is “emotionally invested” as some sort of platform to dismiss their arguments.

I’m not anymore emotionally invested in Star Wars than in any other media I enjoy. I do get annoyed by disengenuous arguments, and especially by goalpost shifting, disengenuous, arguments that paint two extremely different cases as if they are the same, or paint the absurdly out of place as if it were commonplace, which is what you see in the post you quoted. Hussar may as well have claimed that Superman murders dudes all the time, so the end of MOS is perfectly normal.

The rest of this, about “control” and whatever, is entirely irrelevant to a discussion of whether a movie is good or not.
 

billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him) 🇺🇦🇵🇸🏳️‍⚧️
Lol I love it when someone tries to use the idea that someone is “emotionally invested” as some sort of platform to dismiss their arguments.

I’m not anymore emotionally invested in Star Wars than in any other media I enjoy. I do get annoyed by disengenuous arguments, and especially by goalpost shifting, disengenuous, arguments that paint two extremely different cases as if they are the same, or paint the absurdly out of place as if it were commonplace, which is what you see in the post you quoted. Hussar may as well have claimed that Superman murders dudes all the time, so the end of MOS is perfectly normal.

The rest of this, about “control” and whatever, is entirely irrelevant to a discussion of whether a movie is good or not.

I dunno. You’re the one who can’t seem to let it go. You’ve basically harped on it, what, 3-4 times this thread.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I dunno. You’re the one who can’t seem to let it go. You’ve basically harped on it, what, 3-4 times this thread.

Is this not a thread about new Star Wars? Specifically wherein the OP stated what they would have done differently?

Why are you so interested in shushing someone whose opinion on that you disagree with?

Btw, [MENTION=6716779]Zardnaar[/MENTION] there is an obvious and extreme difference between employing assassins, and employing pre-pubescent children as assassins.

It doesn’t doesn’t “inject a bit of grey” or whatever, it makes the Rebel Alliance vs the Empire a battle between evil and not quite as evil.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
And Legends, thankfully, isn’t canon anymore.



Lol I love it when someone tries to use the idea that someone is “emotionally invested” as some sort of platform to dismiss their arguments.

I’m not anymore emotionally invested in Star Wars than in any other media I enjoy. I do get annoyed by disengenuous arguments, and especially by goalpost shifting, disengenuous, arguments that paint two extremely different cases as if they are the same, or paint the absurdly out of place as if it were commonplace, which is what you see in the post you quoted. Hussar may as well have claimed that Superman murders dudes all the time, so the end of MOS is perfectly normal.

The rest of this, about “control” and whatever, is entirely irrelevant to a discussion of whether a movie is good or not.

Making a darker Star Wars movie doesn't fundamentally change the way the universe works. Hell Lucas did it in Sith. I saw Jedi when I was 5 doesn't mean I want to be seeing kids stuff all the time at 40.

TLJ is kind boring because they booked Rey so strong. There's less dramatic tension there over the OT or Rogue One. If Rey steamrolls everything again in 9 big deal seen that in two movies already.

Prequels crappy dialogue and acting but the world building was better and it was a bit darker especially Sith. And that's Canon and why I think Sith has stronger storytelling than say TLJ.

Any changes I would have made to say TFA would be subtle. Like if you're going to have Rey be a nobody don't put in a scene where her family leaving matters.

There's good swerves and bad swerves.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Also we don't know enough about his back gournd anyway. Did he fall in with the Alliance as a child and they raised him, was he literally a child assassin (we see this in Game of Thrones), did he volunteer and/or lie. I don't think the alliance is doing mass recruiting of children. In WW2 the US military used a 12 year old in combat (he volunteered and lied), a teacher I had in 1989 was a child in the Sudetenland under Nazi occupation and did some things that would have got him killed if he got caught.

These things happen, some 10-14 year olds would chose to fight and could operate weapons (physically, parents may have even taken them hunting).

Those are exceptions not the rule but these things happen even outside dictatorial regimes that either deliberately use child soldiers or have things like the Hitler Youth/Young Communists. WW2 literally had a 12 year old chose to go to war. Context is a big difference and we don't know the context (he is getting a spin off right?).

Our idea of the childhood ideal may fall a bit short when the forces of evil literally come stomping own the street. The Empire is everyone bad guy. Are they space nazies, space commies, space British Imperialism, or the space military industrial complex or just space baddies that need zapped.
 
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Any changes I would have made to say TFA would be subtle. Like if you're going to have Rey be a nobody don't put in a scene where her family leaving matters.
Are we talking about the same Star Wars where they weasel out of how he told Luke his father was dead?

“Yeah... that may have seemed like a ridiculous contradiction... but really I meant he was dead to me.”

They pulled a major plot twist out of their ass with no idea how to reconcile it with the first movie.
 

Hussar

Legend
Jedi aren't soldiers. Jedi children have seen combat in extremis.

Star Wars kinda has a fantasy with youth. Luke and Leia were 18, Anakin was 10, Ezra 14, Sabine 16, Padme 14.

Ezra was a soldier before he was a Jedi. And he joined the crew as a soldier, not as a Jedi.

And, umm, nope. You take children, force them into soldier training, they are child soldiers.

Every single Jedi presented in Star Wars is the result of horrific practices where a cult is kidnapping children and forcing them to be soldiers for their cult. Now, just like the obvious slavery issues of droids, Star Wars chooses to ignore these issues, but, they most certainly are there.

You might not like it, but, it's not exactly hard to miss.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Ezra was a soldier before he was a Jedi. And he joined the crew as a soldier, not as a Jedi.

And, umm, nope. You take children, force them into soldier training, they are child soldiers.

Every single Jedi presented in Star Wars is the result of horrific practices where a cult is kidnapping children and forcing them to be soldiers for their cult. Now, just like the obvious slavery issues of droids, Star Wars chooses to ignore these issues, but, they most certainly are there.

You might not like it, but, it's not exactly hard to miss.

I can't remember but by law do force sensitive children get handed over. Even if it's forced though real world morality doesn't apply because we don't have to deal with force sensitive children falling to the dark side. Each kid is a potential wmd.
 

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