STARGATE UNIVERSE #10:Justice/Season 1/2009

[Orius]

I say Rush had that coming.

It was pretty shocking to see Young leave Rush behind like that, because while I would except Rush to do that to anyone, that doesn't seem like something Young would do. But then, Rush has caused a good deal of problems so far.

• He dialed the 9th chevron instead of Earth, stranding everyone on Destiny in the first place.
• He uses the communications stones in secret before anyone else knows about them, and tell everyone that he's been placed in charge by O'Neil.
• He doesn't work well with either the military officers or the civilians.
• He deliberately sabotaged the evacuation plan that Telford attempted (granted, it would have likely failed catastrophically, but it was still deception).
• He lied about that Icarus planet.
• Finally, in this episode, he deliberately frames Young for selfish reasons.

In short, Rush is a deceitful agent of chaos. His deceptions haven't always made things better either. Whatever repercussions this will have for Young remains to be seen, but I still trust him. He knew enough that the investigation had to be handled transparently, no matter what the other military officers felt, because he knows there's rising tension between the two groups. He gets credit for trying to tamp it down rather than exploit it, like Rush was doing.

On the bright side, Spencer's dead and Franklin is either on his way to being dead, or is going to be out of commission for a while. So the other two biggest problems on the ship are gone. I suspected suicide in Spencer's case, and even when the gun went missing, I thought it may have been assisted.

The alien ship is an interesting twist. Is it the same aliens that apparently were mucking about on Destiny in the first episode, or something else? Some comments on Hulu suggested the Furlings, but I kind of doubt that.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Also, Young has basically become Rush. "The ends justify the means," indeed.

No, actually, Young acted within the confines of both most military codes of justice and within the confines of a field known as "Lifeboat Ethics." Rush, as stated before, has endangered the crew about as many times as he has saved them, and has been divisive, dismissive and disruptive of the ship's command heirarchy.

In an emergency situation, that kind of behavior can be as dangerous as the situation itself.

He framed Young for murder (though he probably expected Young to beat the charge), and as Eli pointed out, Rush's testimony implicated the Colonel as much as it purported to distance the scientist from trying to convict him.

Rush's final words to Young sealed his sentence, as it were, when he stated it would never end between the 2 of them. Young had a choice- the personnel on the ship needed at least one of them to return from the planet- but like Siamese Fighting Fish, they obviously couldn't co-exist in within the same cramped confines. Rationally & objectively, Young probably wasn't going to choose himself to remain behind.

I'm a big supporter of Rush and have very little sympathy for Young, so the whole "glad Young finally did what needed doing" thing doesn't resonate with me at all.

Rush did a lot of things for the safety of the crew...as long as they served his own purposes (including self-preservation). I'm pretty sure he wasn't kidding when he thought Telford's "jump home" plan was flawed and would result in the ship's destruction.

However, he was pretty cavalier with the lives of others when it came time to risk lives. The clearest example of this was "The Chair"- as Young figured out, Rush wanted to risk using it to learn about the ship, despite a track history of such devices being a virtually guaranteed death sentence. But when given the option of sitting in it himself, Rush balked...then talked to others about the boon the device might represent.

Like the (insightfully) aforementioned Dr. Smith, Rush envisioned himself at the apex of value to everyone on the ship, meaning his desires and needs were paramount. That someone might thwart or delay his wishes- even for perfectly rational reasons- resulted in that person being framed for murder.

There's a word for that type of personality- "sociopath."

Anyway, this little situation is far from cleared up, as everyone knows that someone framed Young, but they don't know who. Young can't point the finger at Rush or he'll be suspect, so there should still be a big stink aboard ship.

You're dead on about that- assuming the writers are up to snuff, the question of who framed Col. Young should continue to nag the more intelligent or paranoid among the ship's inhabitants, resulting in further tension and dramatic potential.

Especially if Rush does escape his exile (as we all seem to be assuming he must).

 

[LightPhoenix]

I'm pretty sure that only Young and Eli know about the video exposing Rush's guilt in the setup. Everyone else is in the dark, at least for now. When Rush eventually shows up again, things should get interesting!

Eli even says specifically that Scott hasn't seen it.

My guess as to Scott finding out is that Eli eventually confides in Chloe, and Chloe tells Scott.

No, actually, Young acted within the confines of both most military codes of justice and within the confines of a field known as "Lifeboat Ethics." Rush, as stated before, has endangered the crew about as many times as he has saved them, and has been divisive, dismissive and disruptive of the ship's command heirarchy.

In an emergency situation, that kind of behavior can be as dangerous as the situation itself.

He framed Young for murder (though he probably expected Young to beat the charge), and as Eli pointed out, Rush's testimony implicated the Colonel as much as it purported to distance the scientist from trying to convict him.

Rush's final words to Young sealed his sentence, as it were, when he stated it would never end between the 2 of them. Young had a choice- the personnel on the ship needed at least one of them to return from the planet- but like Siamese Fighting Fish, they obviously couldn't co-exist in within the same cramped confines. Rationally & objectively, Young probably wasn't going to choose himself to remain behind.

<snip>

That's certainly a valid frame of thought, I won't argue that. It's just one I happen to disagree with.

Rush's point is that the ends justify the means. That is, the situation is dire, and lifeboat ethics presupposes that anything that needs to be done gets done. Hence, Rush believes someone should sit in the chair, irregardless of a possible risk to life. Rush, in essence, personifies lifeboat ethics, ie survival is greater than ethics. He does what needs to be done to ensure the survival of the crew.

Young's point is that lifeboats ethics is bull. That is, despite the fact that the situation is dire, ethics trumps survival. Hence, Young believes that no one should sit in the chair, even volunteers, because someone could get hurt. Young, in essence, personifies ethical superiority, ie ethics is greater than survival. It's better to let everyone die than to cross ethical boundaries.

At least, Young used to hold that position. The second Young chose survival over ethics, he essentially became Rush. There were ways of dealing with the situation that did not involve stranding/killing Rush. For one, he could have showed everyone the recording and confined Rush to quarters, a la Greer in the first episode. Claiming Rush would never let the crap end is incidental; Young already decided to take that route before the conversation. He first tried to blackmail him, then beat the crap out of him and left him to die.

That's the danger of obsession. As aptly said by Nietzsche, "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Young became obsessed with stopping Rush... and ended up becoming him, in the end.

Wray, not coincidentally, is in the middle. She seems at this point to represent a balance between the two points of view. Case in point, she (assumingly) upholds Young's command not to have anyone sit in the chair. However, she also allows Rush free reign to do anything short of that. She's the one that, when confronted by Chloe about her zealotry, pulls back and makes a compromise. There is a point in between where ethics and survival can co-exist; I think most of the crew gets that. Risks need to be taken, but that doesn't mean they can't be controlled risks.

In the end, neither Rush nor Young is right. Both of them are so caught up in themselves they've lost sight of the middle ground.

 

[Mark]

Hurm...

*goes to look at a wiki*

I never knew that, I always assumed since radios and such worked two ways through them, everything must. Evidently that's just a convenient exception.

I had never thought about that exception but it certainly sticks out like a sore thumb in this instance. Very convenient, indeed.

 

[Oni]

I'm not sure if I believe that Rush personifies lifeboat ethics. The crews survival at any cost seems often to be a cover for a more selfish agenda. Rush seems more to be about ensuring his own survival and sating his own desires for knowledge at any cost. The survival and well being of the crew is only important insofar as it ensures his own personal goals. I really don't believe he cares one whit about getting home, he just consumed with understanding the ship. Which ironically he justified his own removal from in that callous little speech about the suicide.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Rush has a very specific "form" of survival at heart - he has to survive, and he preferably survives with the ship, uncovering its secrets. There are no morals or ethics guiding his actions otherwise. Other people can die or live as to this goals.

The chair, the "solar diving experience", and finally this episode all stressed this trait. And Young couldn't risk that anymore, since he wants the crew, his men to survive.

Considering that Stargate Universe always seems a little BSG "inspired", it seems to me that Rush is pretty much like Baltar. Except that he has gone a little further - Baltar was a weasel and sometimes stumbled into things, he had to learn to take (amoral) opportunities that presented himself. Rush already knows how to do this. He did it in the pilot, he did it in this episode.

There are rumors/spoilers

Spoiler

that someone amongst the crew was working for the attackers in the pilot

.

Spoiler

I wouldn't be surprised if it was Rush. And if that's not true

I would not be surprised if Rush would end up collaborating with the aliens of the stranded ship and try to retake Destiny by force. Of course, it's also possible he would play both sides.

 

[LightPhoenix]

I had never thought about that exception but it certainly sticks out like a sore thumb in this instance. Very convenient, indeed.

I think the show's explanation is that most matter can't go through both ways, but most forces and energies can. Radiation can go through both ways, as can something like gravity.

However, now that you mention it, I recall very specifically an episode of SG1 where a very low level wave transmitted through the wormhole was used to hold open the gate. I'm not sure why that couldn't be done here as well. Ah well.

 

[TwinBahamut]

Wray, not coincidentally, is in the middle. She seems at this point to represent a balance between the two points of view. Case in point, she (assumingly) upholds Young's command not to have anyone sit in the chair. However, she also allows Rush free reign to do anything short of that. She's the one that, when confronted by Chloe about her zealotry, pulls back and makes a compromise. There is a point in between where ethics and survival can co-exist; I think most of the crew gets that. Risks need to be taken, but that doesn't mean they can't be controlled risks.

In the end, neither Rush nor Young is right. Both of them are so caught up in themselves they've lost sight of the middle ground.

Honestly, I don't see Wray as being so much a middle ground between Young and Rush as she represents a third flawed example. She doesn't share Young's reluctance to take risks or Rush's recklessness, but she has her flaw that may be worse: she refuses to stop and make her decisions. Wray doesn't take command because she wants to, she does because people on Earth are prodding her to do so. When the scientist is hurt by the chair, she simply goes with the first suggestion the medic presents without weighing any of the variables (when even the medic is uncertain about what to do). In many ways, she is the kind of person who just blindly continues the status quo and tries to quickly dodge any important decisions by going with the first bit of advice given to her. She is nothing more than a puppet, which is almost certainly why the people on Earth want her in charge.

Also, I am surprised at all the people who think Young was doing the right thing as the commanding officer. Honestly, I don't think his decision to basically try to murder Rush was based on anything but personal hatred and revenge. It was Young the man who tried to kill Rush, not Young the commanding officer. In many ways, the very punches he used made a parallel between his attack on Rush and his attack on Telford. The statement he made to Rush right at the end was "Are we going to stop this now?" (or something to that effect), and Rush's response was "No, we are going to keep at this forever," (or something to that effect). This exchange wasn't a demand that Rush stop endangering the crew, this exchange was a reflection of the fact that they both recognized their extreme mutual dislike and that Rush was smart enough to recognize that getting punched in the fact a few times wasn't anywhere near enough to make that go away.

It should also be noted that, as a commanding officer, Young has always been fair and has given people the benefit of the doubt. He avoided even the perception of bias and even was quite willing to undergo a trial for his alleged crime. The one exception to that fair nature has always been Rush. He never once gave Rush the benefit of the doubt. Rather, he always assumed the worst from Rush even when it was completely unwarranted (such as in the initial blackout in "Darkness"). In many ways, he sabotaged Rush's efforts to help the ship just as much as Rush tried to sabotage his ability to command (such as how he stopped Eli from helping Rush and made him spy on Rush instead). He also absolutely refused to let anyone be sacrificed, except for Rush. Sure, Rush may have been unwilling to sit in the chair himself, but was it really fair for Young to only let Rush volunteer to do so?

Really, the only good option for the ship would have been for the two to swallow their prides and work together, but instead they sniped at each other and sabotaged each other until they couldn't stand each other anymore, and when push came to shove Young basically got the jump on Rush and was a better fighter. There really isn't any difference between the two in terms of how they have been acting, in my opinion.

 

[Hand of Evil]

guess somewhere down the line they will have a backstory for what is between Rush and Young, the woman in Rush's picture?

I hear all this talk about Lifeboat Ethics but I just don't see the show there yet. While things are bad, they still have time to learn and options. Rush wanted to get someone to use the chair, Young was in his way and Rush removed him. Rush did not care about the crew or any side effects only to get someone in that chair. The guy has tunnel vision, he drops everything else to focus on one task.

Now, was the ship found, the one that left the Destiny?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Rush's point is that the ends justify the means. That is, the situation is dire, and lifeboat ethics presupposes that anything that needs to be done gets done. Hence, Rush believes someone should sit in the chair, irregardless of a possible risk to life. Rush, in essence, personifies lifeboat ethics, ie survival is greater than ethics. He does what needs to be done to ensure the survival of the crew.

Young's point is that lifeboats ethics is bull. That is, despite the fact that the situation is dire, ethics trumps survival. Hence, Young believes that no one should sit in the chair, even volunteers, because someone could get hurt. Young, in essence, personifies ethical superiority, ie ethics is greater than survival. It's better to let everyone die than to cross ethical boundaries.

Lifeboat ethics doesn't quite boil down to ends justifying means. It takes as its starting point the condition that the person in charge of the lifeboat is trying to maximize the number of people he can save. From there, when you are trying to decide a course or courses of actions, you are not forced to take actions that would endanger those whom you could otherwise save. So, for instance, if you determine that you are at least 12 days from rescue and can save 10 people that long at maximum, you are not required to take on any more than those 10, and are even absolved if you cull passengers down to a more manageable number.

Rush doesn't believe in lifeboat ethics at all. He believes that his wants & needs come before all others. He's elitist & narcissistic. He believes in sacrifice, as long as that sacrifice doesn't involve him. Again- the chair that he wants access to, but won't sit in...let one of the "lesser" beings take the risk; sabotaging the authority of others in the group hierarchy.

Young is opposed to the use of the chair, not because ethics trumps survival, but rather because he believes that those minds who would be put at risk by sitting in it would be better used figuring out how the ship works. The situation is dire, yes, but the ship itself has time and time again proven to have several safety features and programs that are- much like Atlantis- geared to aid the survival of Ancients or Ancient-like beings who might be inhabiting it, even if they may be incapacitated. It self-repairs to an extent, it self-refuels. Sure, after all these eons, its not as good at that as it once was, but its definitely mitigating the severity of the situation.

Imagine the 2 of them bursting into the vacated cockpit of a 757 on autopilot. Rush wants to press the buttons- and only those buttons- he's sure will help RIGHT NOW...as soon as somebody (not him) slips into the Captain's chair.

Young, OTOH, sees that the plane is on autopilot, notes that they have fuel, so he rationalizes that they have time enough to figure out what the majority of the buttons do before anyone sits in the chair and starts pulling on the yoke.

Also, I am surprised at all the people who think Young was doing the right thing as the commanding officer. Honestly, I don't think his decision to basically try to murder Rush was based on anything but personal hatred and revenge.

He definitely has a personal hatred of Rush, but Rush has given him ample reasons for dislike. Time and time again, Rush has at the very least been secretive enough of the true extent of his knowledge that several characters (including Young) have questioned whether he's being truthful at all.
Since Destiny and all of the Stargate is a military program, I wouldn't be surprised to see that the ship was being run under the dictates of the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice).

UCMJ

Note that under "Persons Subject to this chapter" is included:

From UCMJ

(10) In time of war, persons serving with or accompanying an armed force in the field.

<edit>
(c) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a person serving with an armed force who--
(1) Submitted voluntarily to military authority;

Rush qualifies.

And since he tried to frame the CO for murder in a time of active deployment- for which Young could have received the death penalty under the UCMJ-

From UCMJ

Any person subject to this chapter whom without justification or excuse, unlawfully kills a human being, when he--

(1) has a premeditated design to kill;

(2) intends to kill or inflict great bodily harm;

(3) is engaged in an act which is inherently dangerous to others and evinces a wanton disregard of human life; or

(4) is engaged in the perpetration or attempted perpetration of burglary, sodomy, rape, robbery, or aggravated arson;

is guilty of murder, and shall suffer such punishment as a court-martial may direct, except that if found guilty under clause (1) or (4), he shall suffer death or imprisonment for life as a court-martial may direct.

he has acted with reckless disregard for Young's safety...which means he opened himself up to the death penalty...

From UCMJ

(4) Act inherently dangerous to others.

(a) Wanton disregard of human life. Intentionally engaging in an act inherently dangerous to another—although without an intent to cause the death of or great bodily harm to any particular person, or even with a wish that death will not be caused—may also constitute murder if the act shows wanton disregard of human life. Such disregard is characterized by heedlessness of the probable consequences of the act or omission, or indifference to the likelihood of death or great bodily harm. Examples include throwing a live grenade toward another in jest or flying an aircraft very low over one or more persons to cause alarm.

(b) Knowledge. The accused must know that death or great bodily harm was a probable consequence of the inherently dangerous act. Such knowledge may be proved by circumstantial evidence.

Now, Young DID act precipitously in that he acted as the Courts Martial entire...but OTOH, a trial of Rush at this stage would have been very divisive of the inhabitants of Destiny...not to mention, an all-too familiar echo of the trial of Gaius Baltar in nBSG.

Now, was the ship found, the one that left the Destiny?

I think they mentioned that it was not Ancient tech.