D&D 5E Starting to Hate Hexblades

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
People seem to forget that a 1 level dip into warlock has the cost of a deal with a patron. "A warlock is defined by a pact with an otherworldly being." Dipping into hexblade comes with consequences in the RP side of the game - there is something out there that you're obligated to serve.
I was recently in a rather involved discussion on this site where several people insisted that warlocks should only suffer consequences from their patrons if the player wants them to. I don't agree, but it's clear to me that some pushback from the players is a real possibility.
 

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Vaalingrade

Legend
Picking a class in and of itself shouldn't be something that warrants a 'consequence'. that's why I don't want the stabnerd shackled and brainboxed to a specific narrative. For me, they're mages who studied magic as a martial art. Done. No weird meta crap DMs can use as an excuse to restrict them, no limitations on how players can use or imagine them baked in, no lame lore new campaign settings have to awkwardly slot in.

Heh. Forgot which of the three identical gish arguments I was in. Stabnerd is a registered trademark of me.
 

Greg K

Legend
For me, they're mages who studied magic as a martial art. Done. No weird meta crap DMs can use as an excuse to restrict them, no limitations on how players can use or imagine them baked in, no lame lore new campaign settings have to awkwardly slot in.
Well, whether that interpretation is going to fly depends on the DM. A player making that interpretation of a warlock would not fly in the games I run nor would it run in the games of other GMs with whom I play or have played over the years (The same would hold true for making interpretations of several other classes).
 

Vaalingrade

Legend
Well, whether that interpretation is going to fly depends on the DM. A player making that interpretation of a warlock would not fly in the games I run nor would it run in the games of other GMs with whom I play or have played over the years (The same would hold true for making interpretations of several other classes).
Like my edit said, I was replying as if this was the gish thread about the gish 'identity'.

The warlock is already lost to this mistake in class design that lets the DM kick you in the jimmies for picking a class.
 


Blue Orange

Gone to Texas
People seem to forget that a 1 level dip into warlock has the cost of a deal with a patron. "A warlock is defined by a pact with an otherworldly being." Dipping into hexblade comes with consequences in the RP side of the game - there is something out there that you're obligated to serve.

And that's why I never played a warlock or a cleric... non serviam...
 

Xetheral

Three-Headed Sirrush
This leads me to ask:
Does anyone in here just say no to multiclassing?
I do the opposite, and actively encourage multiclassing at my table. I'll help to make sure all the characters are effective enough to be fun to play, but otherwise I'm fine with any combination of classes, including dips, even splits, and anything in between.

Whether or not the player wants to incorporate any of the default fiction of their character's classes I leave up to them. A fighter/monk could have been expelled from a monestary, a brawler who found a teacher for formal training, or just a character with an unusual self-taught fighting style. Similarly, I leave warlock pacts up to the player: it could be an ongoing relationship, a one-time deal, a carryover from an ancestor making a deal, unknowing siphoning of the patron's power, or anything else. (Hexblades can be as simple as the character possessing an eldritch weapon that they figure out how to use as they gain Warlock levels.)

As I see it, every character develops along their own, unique path. Sandy the Fighter/Wizard isn't, IC, erratically proceeding along two separate tracks, she's becoming increasingly powerful in her role as Sandy. That the progression happens to be granular rather than continuous doesn't bother me any more than it does for a single-class charater. (And even that isn't much--granular advancement is a necessary consequence of a level-based game.)

Why do I take this approach? I find it leads to more mechanically diverse characters at my table, which in turn reduces reliance on class identity to define who each character is. Even the players of single-class characters at my table tend to define their characters less by their class when sitting at a table of characters who can't be so easily pigeonholed.

And to address the inevitable question of why I don't choose a classless system, I find that flexible class-based systems tend to (ironically) produce greater mechanical character diversity than classless systems. In a point-buy system, the opportunity cost of taking a particular ability is generally similar for all characters. So, for example, all of the characters at the table are likely to use either the most powerful defensive ability (if they want to emphasize defense) or the most cost-efficient defensive ability (if they want to emphasize some other aspect of their character). So frequently most of the characters end up with one of two defensive abilities. By contrast, the opportunity cost of getting a particular ability in a class based system depends on how many levels a character already has in that class. This, for example, leads to the most efficient defensive ability usually being different for each character, so a greater diversity is seen in play.
 

The warlock is already lost to this mistake in class design that lets the DM kick you in the jimmies for picking a class.
Honest question here: What kind of DM are you playing with where the DM is out to get you because you picked a class? I get limitations via lore, designed worlds, etc. But have not played with a DM in the last 25 years that would be out to get me had I picked an allowable class.
 

As I see it, every character develops along their own, unique path. Sandy the Fighter/Wizard isn't, IC, erratically proceeding along two separate tracks, she's becoming increasingly powerful in her role as Sandy. That the progression happens to be granular rather than continuous doesn't bother me any more than it does for a single-class charater. (And even that isn't much--granular advancement is a necessary consequence of a level-based game.)
Very well stated. Thank you for explaining. Your take seems to be open minded and stems because you view the character through background and lore. Is that a fair statement?
I think most that limit multiclassing do so because they view the character through a game mechanics lens. Either way, both viewpoints are valid. But it is nice to have both viewpoints.
 

Sithlord

Adventurer
I understand everyone wanting a class like this. But until then I hope people aren’t opposed to
Fighter eldritch knight X/Mage X. It’s a darn good effective build. Or bladesinger or warmage or whatever.
 

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