Stats based on genetics + upbringing

[radmod]

I was toying around one day with the idea of non-rolled 3.5 characters, whose stats, etc. were based on genetics, upbringing, etc. I made the mistake of mentioning it to a few players and they went gaga over the idea.

Basically, you start out selecting a few traits, like Strong, Wiry, Smart. Then you add 'Events' at points in time like Orphaned, Farm-boy, Street Smart.
From there I also was looking at starting PCs out as NPCs (that's always fun).

Has anyone seen anything like those things and would you point it out?

 

[HoboGod]

Sounds like a good explanation to the point buy system to me.

 

[jedavis]

Reminds me of the IH Traits system (where you do point buy, then also get traits that can modify ability scores or provide other benefits).

 

[Celebrim]

I haven't seen anything like it. I suspect that it would be fairly easy to come up with a system provided you stayed outcome focused in its design.

But honestly, I agree HoboGod who said 'sounds like a good explanation for the point buy system to me'. The main difference between a balanced trait based attribute system and a balanced point buy system is that you are going to have at the end of character creation a list of descriptive identifiers to attach to the final product. Those identifiers are not likely to have any remaining function. What does it matter if the character is 'Wiry' or 'Stout' other than I know that those relate indirectly to certain attribute scores? How have you gained anything over using point buy + asking the players to list say 6-12 identifiers describing their character?

Anyway, if you do see value in that my advice is to make sure the system is symmetrical and make sure that there aren't descriptors that are so good that everyone will take them otherwise you'll end up with a whole party of 'Graceful, Tough, Brooding, Orphans'.

For my part, I'm perfectly happy with point buy for attribute generation but do believe that 3.0 character creation has some unnecessary contraints. I've tried to resolve that by giving each 1st level PC a free 'trait' in addition to its starting feat. This helps the player make the PC feel more unique. Additionally, you can purchase additional traits by purchasing disadvantages GURPS style. Most traits in my house rules modify the skill system in some manner, for example, one of the most commonly taken traits is 'Unusual Background' which adds three non-exclusive skills to the class skills of the characters starting class. So for example, a fighter can take 'Martial Artist' as an unusual background to add balance, tumble, and concentration (or whatever) to his class skill list, or a wizard could take 'Street Mage' to add Spot, Bluff, and Sleight of Hand. This is pretty much infinitely customizable as the player can invent whatever unusual backgrounds that suit his character concept. So a player can pretty much add mechanical interpretations of his background if he wants them, but isn't forced to do so - 'Adopted', 'Unusual Background', 'Limited Background', 'Cosmopolitan', 'Noble Rank', 'Feral', 'Primitive', 'Second Class Citizen', 'Temple Educated', or whatever.

 

[radmod]

I so prefer point buy as I've seen too many good stat rollers. Right now it seems to be me.

1) It's a cheesy way of getting the anti-point buy players to accept it without them, hopefully, knowing what they are doing.
2) The 'events' part aids in character creation. For example, a player couldn't be Street Smart and Dilettante at the same time (or, at least, in what I was playing around with). It would also help with story-line. "Hmm, an orphan? What would happen when the player comes back with gobs of money? Suddenly, Daddy's home!"

And you're absolutely right about symmetry, et al. With what little I've done on it, I'm concerned about people being too god-like in given stats.

 

[Celebrim]

And you're absolutely right about symmetry, et al. With what little I've done on it, I'm concerned about people being too god-like in given stats.

The trick there is to have no more than 8 or so identifiers that give a positive value to a particular stat, or if the there is more, limit the player to like 8 identifiers. You'll probably need to limit identifiers to no more than two that give a +2 bonus to a single stat. You'll probably also need to break attributes into groups of more than 2 categories you listed (traits & events), and force selection of a limited number from each group. So like in the first group you can select to of 4 of six +1 or some 5 of 6 +1 with the 6th being a -1, then in the second stage you can select 2 3 of 6 +1's (or something like that), and so forth. That way you have a fairly even distribution without harsh peaks.

The big difficulty with this approach I think will be the shear number of combinations you'll need to support. So maybe limiting to 4 identifiers with bonuses in the +2 to +3 range is more practical.

 

[radmod]

Yes, I was limiting it to three 'genes' (one of which had negatives) and three 'events'. I have no problem with the mathematical probabilities/matrix. But then I started to get way too complicated by adding skills/feats to the 'events'. For example, 'Farm-boy' automatically gave you handle animal, knowledge (nature).

Still, I can't get it out of my head that it would be cool to do. Just a lot of work.

BTW, I've run quite a lot of simulations on various point buy systems but I never liked them (especially for MAD characters). Have you (or anyone else) seen any interesting ones?