D&D 5E Stealth & that big Rock!

[Amatiel]

Stealth ...

If you have successfully hidden from your target you get advantage on your attack roll. If you have 2-attacks/round do you get advantage on both, or just the first one?

The corner! Rogue ducks around a corner or a tree in the forest - he hides .. ducks out and shoots ... repeat... how does this work ? or is it just, thats how Stealth works, if you can succeed against the opponents passive perception you are hidden & gain advantage ? A favorite tactic if there is no cover, is minor illusion (big rock) hide / pop up shoot ...

 

[The Crimson Binome]

It depends on whether you're in combat or not.

If your target is in combat, and knows that it's in combat (such as if it's being attacked by your barbarian friend), then it's automatically paying attention to its surroundings and will instantly spot you when you come out from behind the rock. In this case, you don't get advantage on anything, because you're not actually hidden.

If your target is not in combat, because you've made a successful Stealth check and it doesn't have any other obvious enemies in the area to put it on guard, then it can only see what's in front of it. In this case, if the DM determines that your victim isn't looking at the rock when you come out from around it, then you get advantage on your first attack (but not on an Extra Attack, or a bonus attack from dual-wielding or anything - after your first swing, it knows you're there and can defend itself normally).

 

[Noctem]

Stealth ...

If you have successfully hidden from your target you get advantage on your attack roll. If you have 2-attacks/round do you get advantage on both, or just the first one?

The corner! Rogue ducks around a corner or a tree in the forest - he hides .. ducks out and shoots ... repeat... how does this work ? or is it just, thats how Stealth works, if you can succeed against the opponents passive perception you are hidden & gain advantage ? A favorite tactic if there is no cover, is minor illusion (big rock) hide / pop up shoot ...

If you are hidden and attack, you only get advantage on the first attack you make. This is true in or out of combat. Once you make the attack, you lose hidden regardless of if you hit or miss. Some features in the game can allow you to stay hidden if you miss the attack for example but you have to get those.

The rogue ducks around a corner or a tree in the forest. If the rogue is considered to be "unclearly seen" by the DM, the rogue can then roll stealth hide. If the rogue beats the passive perception of an observer, say the enemy he's going to attack for example, he is now hidden. Once hidden, creatures he is hidden from don't know where he is. The last thing they saw is the rogue going around the corner or behind the tree. They now have disadvantage to attack him for example. Per the rules, you could hide, attack, hide, attack, hide, attack and so on forever. There is no rule that says you can't hide in combat, there is no rule that says you can't do this as a tactical choice in combat. But the DM is essentially the gate keeper and can say that you can't keep doing it. But again I want to stress that there's nothing saying you can't as long as you're "unclearly seen" post errata.

The minor illusion trick is valid as long as the observer doesn't realize that the rock is an illusion, however any physical interaction with the illusion basically stops the tactic. So it can be argued that the moment you pop out to shoot, the illusion stops working. Or when your arrow / bolt flies out the same thing happens. Nothing beats the real thing Or a wizard high enough level to make his illusions real, but then you wouldn't want to be ducking inside a rock when that happens right?

 

[Sunseeker]

You have to understand the difference between "hidden" and "invisible". The rogue isn't invisible behind the tree. The bad-guys likely know he's back there, but so long as he's "hidden" they've simply lost track of him to the point that they're not super concerned with the fact.

Hidden just means: even if they know you're behind the tree, they don't know exactly what you're doing, if you're reading an attack or just laying low.

 

[Amatiel]

So.. say the party is fighting a group of orcs in a 20 foot wide Hall in a dungeon, and the rogue runs down say 15 feet down the Hall and ducks around a corner into a corridor that exits the Hall. The orcs are in melee with the rogues party members, so he gets to roll a Stealth check to see if the orcs loose sight of him. When he ducks back out, that stealth roll is compared against the orcs passive perception (PP), I assume ? If he beat the orcs (PP) he gets advantage on his first attack roll, and normal for others.

Also, say the wizard goes invisible - he uses his action to Hide - and that Stealth roll beats the orcs (PP). Orcs think "where he go?" - they can use the Seach Action as an active Perception roll on their turn .. and are able to locate of the wizard's position .. but even if they notice where he is, they've used their action for the round .. wizard moves off and Stealth (hides) again.. beats the passive perception of the orcs..I assume just a couple of orcs can Search & direct their fellow war party to the location of the invisible wizard to take some wild swings (disadvantage for invisible) ?

Does anyone apply any rules for Distance ? In previous additions there was a rule of like +1 to DC for evey 10 feet or the like ?

 

[Ovinomancer]

You have to understand the difference between "hidden" and "invisible". The rogue isn't invisible behind the tree. The bad-guys likely know he's back there, but so long as he's "hidden" they've simply lost track of him to the point that they're not super concerned with the fact.

Hidden just means: even if they know you're behind the tree, they don't know exactly what you're doing, if you're reading an attack or just laying low.

If the rogue is hidden, he cannot be seen. If the rogue is invisible, he cannot be seen. But, you're right, that's the extent of the similarity, as an unhidden rogue can be seen, but an unhidden invisible rogue still can't.

I would also argue that being hidden introduces at least reasonable uncertainty in location. You may logically deduce that the rogue is still behind that tree, but you're not sure. In a world of magic, that's not an unreasonable doubt.

 

[Shiroiken]

The rogue ducks around a corner or a tree in the forest. If the rogue is considered to be "unclearly seen" by the DM, the rogue can then roll stealth hide. If the rogue beats the passive perception of an observer, say the enemy he's going to attack for example, he is now hidden. Once hidden, creatures he is hidden from don't know where he is. The last thing they saw is the rogue going around the corner or behind the tree. They now have disadvantage to attack him for example. Per the rules, you could hide, attack, hide, attack, hide, attack and so on forever. There is no rule that says you can't hide in combat, there is no rule that says you can't do this as a tactical choice in combat. But the DM is essentially the gate keeper and can say that you can't keep doing it. But again I want to stress that there's nothing saying you can't as long as you're "unclearly seen" post errata.

There is nothing wrong the DM giving the creatures advantage on their Passive Perception (i.e. +5), because they know the rouge is "around here somewhere." Mike Mearls admitted he does this in one of his tweets, and I've done the same in mine. I feel that's the best solution, because it makes it harder to pull off this trick, without nerfing the rouge's ability.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Stealth ...

If you have successfully hidden from your target you get advantage on your attack roll. If you have 2-attacks/round do you get advantage on both, or just the first one?

Just the first one. Once you make an attack, you're no longer considered hidden. There are some things that can interact with this, such as the skulker feat where you remain hidden if you make an attack and miss, but in all cases you're not longer hidden if you hit.

This happens immediately, so you would lose your advantage for the second attack (absent a miss and skulker).

The corner! Rogue ducks around a corner or a tree in the forest - he hides .. ducks out and shoots ... repeat... how does this work ? or is it just, thats how Stealth works, if you can succeed against the opponents passive perception you are hidden & gain advantage ? A favorite tactic if there is no cover, is minor illusion (big rock) hide / pop up shoot ...

It's really up to your DM if it works or not. The rules are vague on stealth. I allow for it to work, and I think that's a general consensus, but it's still entirely up to the DM. So long as the hider either stays in cover/concealment, or just leaves it prior to his attack, I allow for advantage on the attack due to being hidden (provide you beat perception, of course).

I would also allow it to work for hiding behind an illusion. If you shot through the illusion, though, I count that as an automatic interaction with the illusion for anyone watching. So long as you treat it as real, it works better.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

So.. say the party is fighting a group of orcs in a 20 foot wide Hall in a dungeon, and the rogue runs down say 15 feet down the Hall and ducks around a corner into a corridor that exits the Hall. The orcs are in melee with the rogues party members, so he gets to roll a Stealth check to see if the orcs loose sight of him. When he ducks back out, that stealth roll is compared against the orcs passive perception (PP), I assume ? If he beat the orcs (PP) he gets advantage on his first attack roll, and normal for others.

The orcs are aware that enemies are at hand, and are actively looking in all directions. If your rogue runs around a corner and spends an action (probably a bonus action) to make a Stealth check, then the orcs won't know where he is (aside from the fact that he went off around that corner, and whatever they can guess based on that).

When he ducks back out from around the corner, all of the orcs immediately see where he is (since he no longer has concealment) and none of them are surprised. Once combat starts and your target is alert, you cannot get advantage from hiding unless you have some way of gaining concealment without making yourself visible, such as Invisibility.

 

[Sunseeker]

If the rogue is hidden, he cannot be seen. If the rogue is invisible, he cannot be seen. But, you're right, that's the extent of the similarity, as an unhidden rogue can be seen, but an unhidden invisible rogue still can't.

I would also argue that being hidden introduces at least reasonable uncertainty in location. You may logically deduce that the rogue is still behind that tree, but you're not sure. In a world of magic, that's not an unreasonable doubt.

Right. Just as we know the river doesn't end when it goes around the hill, we know that without magic, the rogue is simply hidden from sight.