Stepping over "The Line" in a campaign

[Wolfwood2]

Why the hate on save points, I wonder? I mean, the reaction seems completely out of proportion to their actual effect on the game.

With the exception of MMORPGs and wargames with extended campaign play, *every other game, electronic or otherwise* has some type of reset button, even if it's restarting from the beginning. Yet it's a mechanic I've almost never seen explored for RPGs, apparently out of this sense of... outrage? I don't even know how to describe it.

I agree. It's not something I'd want to play with in every game, but it would be fun to try as an experiment or for a change of pace.

I guess some people know exactly what they want out their game, every game, and aren't interested in trying something a little off the wall. If video games have things that can be imported in interesting ways to tabletop games, then by all means import them!

 

[takyris]

Never used a save button, but I wouldn't object to one in certain types of campaigns. I'd dislike it in an intrigue game, and I'd dislike it in a story-intensive RP game, because both of those (well, the former is a subset of the latter) are games in which a) PCs have to remember lots of facts and may have to separate PC Knowledge vs. Player Knowledge and b) DMs have to rely on the illusion of free will in combination with certain bottlenecked events that drive the desired plot forward.

In the story-heavy RP game, players who accidentally blow up the powerful artifact might reload, accidentally act out of character because they don't remember what their PCs do and don't know this time, take a completely different path, and then end up blowing up the artifact anyway. The third time they do it, they'll realize that the DM has no intention of letting that artifact survive, and they'll feel railroaded even though they didn't feel railroaded the first time through.

Using "turn back time" crystals for a cheesy but effective way to not worry about accidental TPKs in a tough dungeon hack would be fine with me, though.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Why the hate on save points, I wonder? I mean, the reaction seems completely out of proportion to their actual effect on the game.

With the exception of MMORPGs and wargames with extended campaign play, *every other game, electronic or otherwise* has some type of reset button, even if it's restarting from the beginning. Yet it's a mechanic I've almost never seen explored for RPGs, apparently out of this sense of... outrage? I don't even know how to describe it.

I can see how it would be somewhat difficult to do; the GM and players would have to keep a good record of their status at a particular point, and especially for the GM that could involve considerable bookkeeping.

Personally, I would love to play in an RPG that used a save point mechanic, or to run one if it had a convenient way to deal with the paperwork.

Beating the dragon after 4 reboots looses some of it's luster. Part of what I like about RPG's is the real feeling of uncertainty about how things will turn out, about breathing a little life into a hero with consequences based on his actions. Save mechanics strip that out as far as I can tell.

 

[GwydapLlew]

Hrm. I could definitely see it working for a Paranoia-style game. Mutants and Masterminds could do it as well. One of the uses of clone is for this type of situation.

 

[Arashi Ravenblade]

I have had to point out things to players as "the Line" before. Usually when I have created an adventure and they have managed (despite all of my efforts to redirect them without railroading) to avoid every possible point to gain XP. I warn them that they might not be powerful enough and that their is no Saved Game awaiting them.

I never did allow a saved game though one player tries to suggest it all the time.

 

[Lanefan]

Saved games: never.

The Line? Line? What line? That about sums some of my own play up, over time......says he, whose character was once singlehandedly responsible for a world war: I and another PC were to meet with someone (a turncoat, who would warn us of the coming invasion and war, we learned in hindsight) in some forest days away from town, but I sneak out of camp the night before the meeting and go and find the renegade's camp with intent of killing and looting the renegade (a Hobgoblin; I'd had bad experiences with 'em before). But the renegade turns out to be levels and levels higher than I am, and I barely escape with my life...meanwhile, my companion sees the fireworks from our camp over the hill, assumes (incorrectly) there's no-one left to meet with, and leaves for greener pastures the next morning. (and never bothers finding out what became of me, by the way; yeah, we were teamwork personified, in those days!)

As DM, I notice more players ignoring "the line" when it comes to dealing with other PCs, than with the world at large.

Lane-"guilty as charged"-fan

 

[Sejs]

I have no interest in any 'save' mechanic.

Adventure is what it is because of the risks you take.

Save points eliminate that risk.

No thank you.

 

[pogre]

I'm not interested in my current campaign using a save button, but I think it has interesting possibilities. It would be better if the save button always "overwrites" the last save. There would need to be some resources used to employ the save button as well.

 

[fusangite]

Remember the Scream movies? What happens if you kill the bankable female lead in the first scene? Where does the horror movie go then?

It seems to me that, if you are the GM, crossing the line challenges you. How will you adapt the campaign once the players make this unexpected and irrevocable change? Your players shouldn't be so worried that the campaign won't even be worth playing if they make the wrong decision that they would even consider needing a "save" point.

Count me against the line crossing thing. Crossing lines, making decisions, having the powerful momentum of events and their consequences is what being in a story is all about. And that's where my players and I want them to be.

 

[painandgreed]

No save mechanic desired. Although there have been times we've backed up and said certain things didn't happen, those are rare and unplanned events that are only decided upon due to extreme circumstances, usually because everybody is dead. Overtly allowing for such a mechanic is too much of a copout and it would be used too often. A better mechanic would be a ring of wishes or favor from divine being with the understanding that it was only to be used in such a situation.

Seen the line come to and sometimes crossed both as player and DM. Usually, the most rememberable games are those that the line has been crossed. When DMing, I usually allow for common sense knowledge and tell them what they repercusions will be and then allow them to choose their actions.