Stilled, Silent Spellcasting Provokes AoO?

[Urbannen]

This is another debate in and of itself. Regardless of what Tome & Blood might say, I fail to see how you can identify a spell being cast when the spell has no components.

How is it possible?

Spells in D&D do not have manifestation effects. In other words, the act of casting a spell does not produce supernatural visual, audial, olfactory, or mental phenomena. Only the spell itself, once successfully cast, can produce a supernatural effect.

The Spellcraft skill says that you must be able to see or hear the spell's components to identify it while it is being cast. If the spell has no components because of metamagic, then you cannot see or hear its components. In that case no identification woud be possible before the spell goes off.

 

[Hypersmurf]

So there must be other signs that can be interpreted?

According to Tome and Blood, apparently so:

"You can use Spellcraft to identify a spell even if the spell has no verbal, somatic, or material components; there's no mistaking the concentration magic requires. However, you must still be able to see or hear the spellcaster."

So it depends on whether you use Tome and Blood rules or not, to an extent, but also how you interpret "the verbal and somatic components of a spell".

-Hyp.

 

[Urbannen]

By that logic you should also be able to identify a spell-like ability as its being used, since both spells and spell-like abilities provoke attacks of opportunity. There is no mechanical difference between a spell-like ability and a spell with no components.

"You see the wizard's face screw up in concentration. There is no mistaking the concentration required for spellcasting, especially since you know that as a human he probably does not have any spell-like abilities that could also cause him to concentrate intently during battle. However, this wizard doesn't seem to be using any of the words or gestures normally necessary for spellcasting. Using your incredible knowledge of spellcraft, you realize from his body language that he is actively AVOIDING making the gestures for a lightning bolt spell. Also, you can read his lips a little and you see he is forcing himself NOT to say the words to a lightining bolt spell. From the way his hands are twitching a little, you can see that he COULD be thinking about handling the material components of a lightning bolt spell. And well, the clincher is that he is scrunching his face IN THE EXACT WAY that wizards always do before they are going to let loose with a lightning bolt spell.

Please make a Will save. You failed? Okay, the form of the human wizard changes to that of a beatiful woman with horns, wings, and a tail. You are now under the spell of an erinyes."

No, that section of Tome & Blood is not well-conceived. Certainly it is not consistent with the principles of spellcasting and Spellcraft. The +2 for missing components makes sense, but only if the spell still has SOME components.

 

[kpdezend]

And how do you motivate AoO's for Spell-like abilities, which have no components?

Your second sentance makes no sense whatsoever.

Pardon my misspelling. The reason why I think that it makes senSe ;-) is because the spellcaster has made a big trade-off to be able to cast the spell in such a way. If a mage wanted to cast a silent & stilled fireball, he would have to trade what, an 8th level spell for it? In my mind spell like abilities do not require and special sacrifice, so from a mechanics standpoint it is not broken, and spell like abilities probably still require some sort of movement, or spoken word (although I'm sure 4 dozen people in this forum can quote otherwise in about 3 minutes).

That is why it makes senSe to me.

- Kent -

Also, your last sentEnce makes no sense to me. Hey… all’s fair! ;-)

 

[Magic Slim]

If a mage wanted to cast a silent & stilled fireball, he would have to trade what, an 8th level spell for it?

5th, in fact.

(I know, that's not entirely the point )

Slim

Edit: What he's trading for his 5th level spell is the ability to cast it in very adverse conditions.

What could be interesting house rules would be to determine a way for a spellcaster to disguise the spells that he/she/it is casting. Maybe another use of the "Disguise" skill?

 

[Camarath]

If a mage wanted to cast a silent & stilled fireball, he would have to trade what, an 8th level spell for it?

Fireball 3rd level + 1 level Silent Spell + 1 level Still Spell = 5th level spell slot

 

[Camarath]

The reason why I think that it makes senSe ;-) is because the spellcaster has made a big trade-off to be able to cast the spell in such a way.

If you wish to cast a spell with out provoking an AoO you could just make a Concentration check (DC 15+ spell level).

 

[kpdezend]

5th, in fact.

(I know, that's not entirely the point )

Slim

Edit: What he's trading for his 5th level spell is the ability to cast it in very adverse conditions.

What could be interesting house rules would be to determine a way for a spellcaster to disguise the spells that he/she/it is casting. Maybe another use of the "Disguise" skill?

...ooo... I like that, although I would lean towards a bluff check, what do you think?

- Kent -

 

[kpdezend]

If you wish to cast a spell with out provoking an AoO you could just make a Concentration check (DC 15+ spell level).

That is true to... or combat cast. I do not play a lot of spellcasters in 3 or 3.5, so I don't think I have the same empathy for the AoO involved here.

- Kent -

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

No, that section of Tome & Blood is not well-conceived. Certainly it is not consistent with the principles of spellcasting and Spellcraft. The +2 for missing components makes sense, but only if the spell still has SOME components.

One could simply assume that spells include subtle observable magical manifestations during casting that hint at the nature of the spell. Someone with a high Spellcraft skill would know how to interpret these signals.