Stilled, Silent Spellcasting Provokes AoO?

[Urbannen]

One could simply assume that spells include subtle observable magical manifestations during casting that hint at the nature of the spell. Someone with a high Spellcraft skill would know how to interpret these signals.

I've never seen the least mention in any book that that is the case. Not even Tome & Blood mentions a spell's "magical manifestation during casting." On the other hand, the Psionic Handbook explicitly describes the manifestation of powers. Your eyes don't crackle with electricity while casting a lightning bolt spell, for example. You just speak the words and make the gestures and after you're done a bolt of lightning appears. If there were more to it than that I assume it would be mentioned somewhere.

 

[Magic Slim]

I've never seen the least mention in any book that that is the case. Not even Tome & Blood mentions a spell's "magical manifestation during casting." On the other hand, the Psionic Handbook explicitly describes the manifestation of powers. Your eyes don't crackle with electricity while casting a lightning bolt spell, for example. You just speak the words and make the gestures and after you're done a bolt of lightning appears. If there were more to it than that I assume it would be mentioned somewhere.

Yes but we need a rationale to justify the fact that you can identify a spell with no components, as it is being cast.

Slim

 

[Darklone]

The KoK PG has New Uses for old skills... check out the soon available adaptation sheets how to use Bluff to disguise Spellcasting during a conversation.
Sleight of Hands is used for somatic components... and so on.

 

[Urbannen]

Yes but we need a rationale to justify the fact that you can identify a spell with no components, as it is being cast.

Slim

What I'm saying is that you can't, and that Tome & Blood is wrong. I don't think the core rules support Tome & Blood in this.

Rather than trying to explain how it's possible to identify a spell being cast with no components, it's simpler to say that you can't. It's more consistent with the core rules, AFAIK.

 

[Darklone]

It causes severe balance problems... as has been said before. There is no consistency with the core rules, but there is more consistency with realism. Hehehehehe. I said the word, I said it!

 

[kpdezend]

Good point

It causes severe balance problems... as has been said before. There is no consistency with the core rules, but there is more consistency with realism. Hehehehehe. I said the word, I said it!

D&D should be more about the imagination than the rules lawering anyway.

my 2 cents. (senSe)

- Kent -

 

[Urbannen]

It causes severe balance problems... as has been said before. There is no consistency with the core rules, but there is more consistency with realism. Hehehehehe. I said the word, I said it!

What causes severe balance problems? That a "component-less" spell can't be identified while it's being cast? I can't find where someone on this thread said that this was severely unbalanced.

How is it realistic to identify a spell while it's being cast when the spell has no components besides concentration? I guess I'm missing something here.

As for balance:
Consider: A wizard casting a fireball with no components
Cons:
- Must have three different feats: Silent Spell, Still Spell, and Eschew Materials
- Must be at least 9th level to do it.
- Must use a 5th level slot for a 3rd level spell.
- Must still concentrate visibly as a standard action, provoking AoO's in battle
Pros:
- Lack of components gives a stealth advantage in many situations.
- The fireball cannot be counterspelled.

Who cares if you can't identify a Stilled, Silenced, Eschewed spell while it's being cast? Only opposed spellcasters that have readied the counterspell action. Counterspelling rarely occurs anyway.

For the trouble it takes to cast "component-less" spells, immunity to counterspelling is a fair benefit.

 

[Bauglir]

The catch in that scenario is monsters with spell like abilities, which are ALWAYS componentless, with no cost...

 

[KarinsDad]

I find the concept that casting a spell with no components results in an AoO while being unconscious on the ground or standing there stunned does not, vaguely amusing.

Evidently, lowering your defense by casting the spell does so more than being stunned or unconscious.

 

[JoeBlank]

How 'bout:

Subtle Spell [Metamagic]
Source: Netbook of Feats
You know how to disguise the use of material, verbal, and somatic components; thus making your spell casting difficult to recognize.
Prerequisite: Spellcraft
Benefit: When you cast a subtle spell those who could observe you must make a Spot check opposed by your Spellcraft check to identify that you are casting a spell. A subtle spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.
Normal: Without this feat spell casting is automatically recognized as spell casting.
Notes: Casting a subtle spell still draws an attack of opportunity. If the person taking the attack of opportunity fails the opposed Spot check they still get the attack of opportunity but do not know why you let your guard down.

My gnome sorcerer loves this feat. I think you would have to give some modifiers to the spot check v. spellcraft check if you combined the feat with silent or still spell, or with eschew materials.