Stipid question about an item - Circlet of Persuasion

[Greenfield]

The +2 Charisma item gives a +1 bonus. The Circlet gives +3, and not only to Perform, but to Bluff, Handle Animals, Use Magic Device, Diplomacy, and anything else that calls for Charisma.

To get a stat boost item to give that same +3 you'd need a +6 item, and that's 36,000 gold.

In any case, I know what's on my Bard's holiday wish list!

 

[Greenfield]

I suddenly doubt that my character will be seeing one of these any time soon.

At 8th level, I rolled a 45 on Diplomacy at a key moment, and pretty much destroyed the plot line for an adventure.

Intimidate is supposed to be used to question people, but by the book you use the Diplomacy table to determine results. Using Diplomacy for the same job is hardly a stretch.

So before I even try to do anything more in that area with the Bard I'm running, I need to print off the Diplomacy table (in large print), frame it, and present it to our DM. He doesn't know how to handle these situations.

 

[Empirate]

I suddenly doubt that my character will be seeing one of these any time soon.

At 8th level, I rolled a 45 on Diplomacy at a key moment, and pretty much destroyed the plot line for an adventure.

Intimidate is supposed to be used to question people, but by the book you use the Diplomacy table to determine results. Using Diplomacy for the same job is hardly a stretch.

So before I even try to do anything more in that area with the Bard I'm running, I need to print off the Diplomacy table (in large print), frame it, and present it to our DM. He doesn't know how to handle these situations.

Holy Cow. What difference would another +3 make here, anyway?

 

[Greenfield]

The difference a +3 could make isn't the point. The DM being unable to handle high-end diplomacy checks, and being scared of even higher end checks is the concern.

I was in shock at the result. Not the dice roll, but the total capitulation of the DM. The whole sub-plot story line just folded.

It's got me wondering whether I should retire the character and run something more mainstream. (Yeah, like a Bard 8 is a wild, overpowered build.)

 

[Empirate]

LOL. I'd XP you for that, unfortunately I'll have to spread some around. Bard 8 indeed.

 

[Dandu]

The diplomacy rules, as written, are broken, although you could have ruined the plot if the victim had failed vs a Charm Person spell as well.

Give the DM some time to learn, and I'm sure he'll get the hang of it. Also, modify the diplomacy rules. I rather like Richard Burlew's diplomacy rules.

Incidentally,the way I figure, an 8th level bard has 11 ranks in Diplomacy, +2 from 5 ranks in Bluff, +2 from 5 ranks in K. Nobility and Royalty, +2 from 5 ranks in Sense Motive, +2 from Half Elf, +3 from Skill Focus, +2 from Persuasive, and +4 from Cha to give a total modifier of +28, which makes a roll of 45 occur on a 7. Lower if you use the Improvisation spell.

 

[Greenfield]

The diplomacy rules, as written, are broken, although you could have ruined the plot if the victim had failed vs a Charm Person spell as well.

The difference is, they get a Save v Charm Person. Diplomacy rules for changing the attitude of someone from Unfriendly to Helpful are an unopposed skill check. And neither the level nor ability scores of the target come into play at all.

Incidentally,the way I figure, an 8th level bard has 11 ranks in Diplomacy, +2 from 5 ranks in Bluff, +2 from 5 ranks in K. Nobility and Royalty, +2 from 5 ranks in Sense Motive, +2 from Half Elf, +3 from Skill Focus, +2 from Persuasive, and +4 from Cha to give a total modifier of +28, which makes a roll of 45 occur on a 7. Lower if you use the Improvisation spell.

I didn't Skill Focus, but the character has a +2 charisma bump from Half Satyr (20 Cha at this point), the +2 RA from his mother's side (He's Half Elf/Half Satyr ), and a +2 Charisma item, taking his effective Charisma mod to +6.

So he's +25, total, on the check. Even if he were the +28 you describe though, he'd still need a 17 to reach 45. not a 7. My 45 result was a natural 20, and the DM rolled a resist check of some kind and popped a natural 1.

Defying all odds though, it's not the first time we've matched dice that way on a Diplomacy check. It's not even the second time. And it always seems to come up at a key moment.

In this case it was a prisoner we'd taken from a group that had kidnapped a small child. My character had been in Avariel form for the battle, so he didn't realize that the bearded, horned hairy thing talking to him was the same guy who'd whupped him unconscious a day earlier. His group leader had absconded with the kid (DM fiat: He gets away because he has to for the plot), and his other companions were killed in the fight.

My character isn't an intimidating type, so I tried Diplomacy. Loosened his bonds so he could eat, played for a little Stockholm syndrome, if you will. I just wanted him to tell/show me where the kidnappers were taking the kid. I played on the fact that his group leader had abandoned him on the field, and was now taking credit for the success that everyone else had died for. I laid it on thick. Then I arranged his "escape", and went with him. We got there, with my companions following a mile or three behind. Ranger, speed tracking from out of sight, and me leaving an obvious trail. A few days on the road.

We got there, my associates showed up, the prisoner pulled a Houdini and vanished into the shadows (DM fiat, no chance to spot, track or follow). We were planning our assault on the evil temple when our "friend" shows up again, kid in hand. We make our escape before the alarm goes up, and the pursuit doesn't catch us. DM fiat again.

Have I mentioned how much I hate DM fiat? This DM doesn't do it much, but when he gets on a roll, well, at least he doesn't use it to be a killer DM.

 

[Dandu]

The difference is, they get a Save v Charm Person. Diplomacy rules for changing the attitude of someone from Unfriendly to Helpful are an unopposed skill check. And neither the level nor ability scores of the target come into play at all.

I agree, I was just thinking that the DM should have had something in case his NPC was persuaded to help the PCs.

So he's +25, total, on the check. Even if he were the +28 you describe though, he'd still need a 17 to reach 45.

Sorry, miscalculated.

 

[Greenfield]

I'm in no position to complain or criticize about misreads or miscalculations. I've done more than my share of them.