Strength of 0 and flying

[Hypersmurf]

The reason that I disagree with the RotG interpretation that a Fly spell does not require you to move your body?

Let's consider someone with a Fly spell, carrying a suit of Hide armor. It weighs 25 pounds... well under his Medium load. He flies at a speed of 60 feet.

Now he puts on the Hide armor. It still weighs 25 pounds, it's still under his Medium load... but now he flies at a speed of 40 feet.

Now, if Fly is unaffected by Paralysis, then it shouldn't make any difference whether the suit is in his arms, or wrapped around him. The fact that it restricts his movement when he's wearing it is irrelevant; he's not moving anyway.

But wearing the armor slows him down, which implies that restriction of his movement affects his ability to fly, which in turn implies that if he is unable to move at all, then he can't undertake whatever movements are required (that the armor restricts).

So to me, it's clear that the Fly spell is not a no-body-movement-required purely mental action, and there is a physical component... thus, a paralyzed creature cannot avail himself of a Fly spell.

-Hyp.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

So to me, it's clear that the Fly spell is not a no-body-movement-required purely mental action, and there is a physical component... thus, a paralyzed creature cannot avail himself of a Fly spell.

And even if he could do so, with a Strength of 0 he's going to be overloaded anyway, forcing him to push or drag any equipment that he's wearing or carrying across the ground at a rate of 5 feet per full round action.

Later
silver

 

[Zelc]

The RotG is notoriously problematic in many respects though, so I'd be hesitant to trust its ruling.

 

[MarkB]

The reason that I disagree with the RotG interpretation that a Fly spell does not require you to move your body?

Let's consider someone with a Fly spell, carrying a suit of Hide armor. It weighs 25 pounds... well under his Medium load. He flies at a speed of 60 feet.

Now he puts on the Hide armor. It still weighs 25 pounds, it's still under his Medium load... but now he flies at a speed of 40 feet.

Now, if Fly is unaffected by Paralysis, then it shouldn't make any difference whether the suit is in his arms, or wrapped around him. The fact that it restricts his movement when he's wearing it is irrelevant; he's not moving anyway.

But wearing the armor slows him down, which implies that restriction of his movement affects his ability to fly, which in turn implies that if he is unable to move at all, then he can't undertake whatever movements are required (that the armor restricts).

So to me, it's clear that the Fly spell is not a no-body-movement-required purely mental action, and there is a physical component... thus, a paralyzed creature cannot avail himself of a Fly spell.

-Hyp.

Okay, now that argument I can buy. No flight for the zero-strength guys it is.

 

[Slaved]

The reason that I disagree with the RotG interpretation that a Fly spell does not require you to move your body?

Let's consider someone with a Fly spell, carrying a suit of Hide armor. It weighs 25 pounds... well under his Medium load. He flies at a speed of 60 feet.

Now he puts on the Hide armor. It still weighs 25 pounds, it's still under his Medium load... but now he flies at a speed of 40 feet.

Now, if Fly is unaffected by Paralysis, then it shouldn't make any difference whether the suit is in his arms, or wrapped around him. The fact that it restricts his movement when he's wearing it is irrelevant; he's not moving anyway.

But wearing the armor slows him down, which implies that restriction of his movement affects his ability to fly, which in turn implies that if he is unable to move at all, then he can't undertake whatever movements are required (that the armor restricts).

So to me, it's clear that the Fly spell is not a no-body-movement-required purely mental action, and there is a physical component... thus, a paralyzed creature cannot avail himself of a Fly spell.

-Hyp.

I think that is better to say that the Fly Spell has a short circuit in it and that a higher level version could be made which would bypass this short circuit.

Magic has its own rules and the extrapolation you are making uses assumptions that are not very good because they assume that the Spell follows a logical progression here even though it does not in other parts of the spell.

Why should this Special Exception be any more special than the other Special Exceptions in the Spell? The Spell tells us to reduce Speed based on the Characters Armor so we do. The Spell does not tell us that being able to flap arms or move legs are required so they are not.

 

[moritheil]

Magic has its own rules and the extrapolation you are making uses assumptions that are not very good because they assume that the Spell follows a logical progression here even though it does not in other parts of the spell.

This is true, but not really what Hyp was addressing.

Why should this Special Exception be any more special than the other Special Exceptions in the Spell? The Spell tells us to reduce Speed based on the Characters Armor so we do. The Spell does not tell us that being able to flap arms or move legs are required so they are not.

I'm not sure where you're going with this, but the exception would be that fly still works. The general rule would be that it doesn't.

A character with Strength 0 falls to the ground and is helpless

 

[Hypersmurf]

The Spell does not tell us that being able to flap arms or move legs are required so they are not.

The Paralyzed condition states that the creature cannot move.

The Fly spell grants one a Fly speed, which you make use of by moving.

Paralysis has an exception for mental-only actions. The Fly spell doesn't state one way or the other whether it's a mental-only action, but the armor rule is evidence in favour of a physical component.

-Hyp.

 

[Ungruush]

...the armor rule is evidence in favour of a physical component...

aerodynamics?

 

[Slaved]

The Paralyzed condition states that the creature cannot move.

The Fly spell grants one a Fly speed, which you make use of by moving.

Paralysis has an exception for mental-only actions. The Fly spell doesn't state one way or the other whether it's a mental-only action, but the armor rule is evidence in favour of a physical component.

-Hyp.

The Armor issue is not evidence for that as I said in my previous post. You are assuming a conclusion that is not firmly based on the evidence but is instead a long reach jumping off of a shakey beginning and ignoring other aspects that would obviously falter under the logical reach as well even though they are in the same Spell!

The Fly Spell does not require any particular motion of the Character using it because it does not say that any particular motion is required. The Armor reduces the Speed for the same reason that Arcane Spell Failure only works on the Somatic Component Spells of a limited selection of Characters -- because the RULES SAY SO!!

 

[Hypersmurf]

The Fly Spell does not require any particular motion of the Character using it because it does not say that any particular motion is required.

Neither does the Spider Climb spell. One grants a Fly speed, the other grants a Climb speed.

If my hands are free, can I use the Spider Climb spell to move around while paralyzed?

-Hyp.