Stupid player decisions + bad dice rolls = dead PC

[Zerakon]

That seems a bit of a severe reaction.

I don't bend over backwards to save the characters from death. I wouldn't have an "intrepid maid" suddenly appear to save them from the orcs in the snowy mountain pass. But if I've already established that there is a maid or two in the inn, and if doing so puts them in no great personal danger, I might have one of them step up and try to staunch the bleeding of the downed Bard.

I'd like to think that it isn't too common to stand idly by while someone bleeds to death just a few feet away from you.

Well, I was going by the implied conditions in Buttercup's story:
1) The bad guy "is sleeping in his locked room."

So, it's night time and cleaning maids won't be around til the next day.

2) "The cleric would have died too, but he ran out of the room and down the stairs while he still had 5 hit points left."

So, the bard got dropped in the bad guy's room upstairs. Perhaps there are some barmaids downstairs, but for someone to have the presence of mind to run upstairs past a bow-wielding maniac chasing after a wounded cleric seems so unlikely as to be laughable.

To clarify my position, when I DM, and such a situation comes up, I actually would roll to see if some sort of unexpected assistance is available. I tend to proclaim percentages out loud and roll them right there, and I'll even listen to proposals from PCs if they think I've forgotten something. For example, I might say: "Well, there's an 5% chance that someone working at the inn happens to be upstairs and walks over to see the bard bleeding to death." A player might say: "and how about a neighbor who was awakened by the sounds..." and I might say, "good point, but what are the odds that he'd get up from sleeping quickly enough to do something for the bard?" etc.

My response of considering leaving a game would be for a DM that just proclaimed out of nowhere that an intrepid maid shows up and starts bandaging the wounded bard.

As far as feeling bad about a PC death, yep, I would as a player or DM. However, I feel worse when the DM fudges to save a character.

 

[Halivar]

Killing a stupid player: absolutely.

Killing an unlucky player? no way.

It's D&D, not Boggle or Battleship. If the baddies roll 20's consistantly and goodies roll 1's consistantly, then what we have is preposterous situation where experienced fighters are getting trounced by six-year-old schoolyard bullies.

So I fudge. Hah; there, I said it. All the time. Every game.

Now, if it's five-on-five and everyone's the same level, no fudging! It's toasted PC-crispies for dessert!

In short: you did the right thing Buttercup, on both counts. There is a part of me, though, that would have been loathe to kill the bard because another player acted out of character. But it's a grey area and completely up to your perview. No wrong way to do it.

 

[Zerakon]

Killing a stupid player: absolutely.

Killing an unlucky player? no way.

It's D&D, not Boggle or Battleship. If the baddies roll 20's consistantly and goodies roll 1's consistantly, then what we have is preposterous situation where experienced fighters are getting trounced by six-year-old schoolyard bullies.

So I fudge. Hah; there, I said it. All the time. Every game.

Then why even spend time on combats against lesser foes? If you're going to make sure that the PCs survive, why not just give a 30-second cinematic description of the fight instead of taking 15 to 30 minutes to do the actual game rolls.

 

[Rel]

Well, I was going by the implied conditions in Buttercup's story.

Fair enough.

I was thinking more along the lines of "If they are just waltzing up and knocking on his door, it is probably during normal business hours for the inn." I was also thinking that the "bad guy" may have pursued the monk downstairs for a few moments, possibly leaving the "intrepid maid" a chance to render aid to the Bard without possibly being cut down herself.

I guess it's all a matter of perception.

 

[Halivar]

Then why even spend time on combats against lesser foes? If you're going to make sure that the PCs survive, why not just give a 30-second cinematic description of the fight instead of taking 15 to 30 minutes to do the actual game rolls.

Generally, I don't throw lesser foes at them unless it's part of a pre-scripted plot device. I would imagine players would be pretty frustrated at having to spend a lot of game time on creatures they won't even get experience for.

 

[Zerakon]

Then why are you fudging all the time, every game?

 

[S'mon]

Generally, I don't throw lesser foes at them unless it's part of a pre-scripted plot device. I would imagine players would be pretty frustrated at having to spend a lot of game time on creatures they won't even get experience for.

Hm, I like to run my 'lesser foes' with venom - and give the PCs XP for them, too. If a 10th level PC gets killed by a level 2 goblin warrior, that's just dandy.

 

[Berandor]

Zeragon, amazingly enough, I agree with you.

I totally dislike if I get the feeling that the DM saved my character for some reason.

However, Buttercup expressed regrets at the dead bard, and not knowing the bard's player (perhaps he doesn't mind that much), I simply ackowledged that there were possibilities not to kill the bard. Also, even at nighttime, a fight is loud, and someone might look what the ruckus is about (the PCs are not the only adventurers).

I still think that the game went off with a bad start at the unlucky rolls with the orcs, and from there on both players and DM were probably a little stressed.
As the monk lost his head (or used tactics to lure the fighter away from his dying friend), so - in a small way - did Buttercup.

If she had paused for a moment, then decided level-headed that the bard was dead, she would surely not regret it as much as she did (or perhaps she would?).

Being a player that dislikes these kinds of DM favors, I tend not to fudge when DMing, but with hero points helping, I would not cause a TPK just because everybody rolled badly. An avalanche, the orcs taking the group prisoner (or even better, stealing their equipment and horses and leaving them naked in the cold), something along these lines could still pose a severe hindrance and penalty without killing all PCs outright.

 

[Darklone]

An avalanche will most likely kill the whole group.

 

[Steverooo]

IS the Bard dead?

I'm unclear as to the motives of the Orcs and scruffy man. I know that the Emperor (Kinslayer) sent them to track down the Empress and heir, assuming they're with the party, but were they ordered to kill the party?

With scruffy (the Bard Slayer), it probably was dumb to go see him, as after the Orcs, the PCs should have expected trouble. But is the Bard really dead? Does (s)he have to be? The Militia got scruffy, so they should know what happened. They could have backtracked, and saved the Bard.

Likewise, as someone else previously pointed out, the fight would have drawn attention, and a maid, patron, etc., could have saved the Bard after scruffy left... So, does the Bard really NEED to be dead?

Apparently, scruffy is there to off the heir, and the Empress. The PCs aren't (as far as I know) a matter of any concern. He doesn't care about what happens to them, as long as they don't get in the way... His purpose is to find the mother and child, off them, and get away. He'll kill the PCs if he needs to, but can ignore them as unimportant, otherwise...

So this ONE GUY is after the ENTIRE PARTY? Either he's an ultra-high-level Assassin, or else he isn't REALLY alone... If he isn't, then he has a host of allies nearby, upon whom he can call for aid in diverting the PCs so that he can kill his quarries. Since he wants to know where they are, he pursued the Monky/Cleric, and left the downed Bard for his allies to heal and question.

You could talk to the Bard's player, ask them if they want to continue playing the Bard, and if they do, pick up the next game with her chained to a wall, somewhere, being healed by an (evil?) Cleric, and then asked where the Empress is, by one of scruffy's allies. The Emperor's Cleric, meanwhile, can be using Zone of Truth (or one of those "Healing Potions" he offered her may actually have been Truth Serum).

The rest of the party, meanwhile, can be left to assume that the Bard is, indeed, dead.