D&D 5E (2024) Subclasses at first level and multiclassing

[UngeheuerLich]

Subclass at 1st and 2nd level please.

many features can be split over two levels, or even 3.

I.E. Rogue assassin;
1st level; bonus proficiencies; disguise and poisoners kit
2nd level; assassinate critical
3rd level; expertise in disguise and poisoners kit. Ability to create certain amount of poisons for free over long rest.

same as Scout subclass:
1st level Nature and Survival proficiency
2nd level: reaction movement
3rd level: Nature and Survival expertise

warlock:
1st level; subclass bonus proficiencies and bonus spells
2nd level; one invocation instead of two+pact boon(Cha bonus to weapons moved from Hexblade to pact of the blade)
3rd level; gain 2nd invocation.

cleric:
working as intended

druid can get subclass at 1st level:
wildshape only into CR 1/8 animals
Moon druid gets CR 1/4 at 1st level, CR 1/2 at 2nd level and CR 1 at 3rd level

Maybe this is also possible. The more I think about that, the more I think, it might feel more natural than two decision points for some classes.

For the warlock, the choice of pact might just be part of the subclass.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Personally, I would like to see subclasses split up into a low and high tier. What seemed like a good idea at 3rd level may not make as much sense at 13th or turn out to be boring especially when it is "X but with a +1" or 'X twice a day" where you find you rarely use X because of GM or other player choices.

 

[Horwath]

No subclass at level 1 please. Keep levels 1 & 2 with minimal decision points to make them newbie friendly. Level 3 is then a great reward as players really see their characters develop.

If you want to start at a higher power level - there is a mechanic for that. Start at a higher level.

Some people really underestimate the intelligence of new players.

I've seen new player play 3rd level tiefling aberrant mind sorcerer with bonus feat at 1st level(shadow touched) without too much problems.
That was 6 cantrips and 9 spells know, 3 of those have extra 1/day free cast. Plus metamagic options.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Some people really underestimate the intelligence of new players.

I've seen new player play 3rd level tiefling aberrant mind sorcerer with bonus feat at 1st level(shadow touched) without too much problems.
That was 6 cantrips and 9 spells know, 3 of those have extra 1/day free cast. Plus metamagic options.

Noone doubts that new players are intelligent.
It is about the number of decision points at level 1 that makes playing a first level character for the first time umwieldy.

Sometimes new players just want to play. They usually don't care much aboit the exact abilities of their character. Even now, they just want to select a class, maybe a race and play. Background often seems too much. The new backgrounds are a step in the right direction.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Some people really underestimate the intelligence of new players.

I've seen new player play 3rd level tiefling aberrant mind sorcerer with bonus feat at 1st level(shadow touched) without too much problems.
That was 6 cantrips and 9 spells know, 3 of those have extra 1/day free cast. Plus metamagic options.

Just because some players can do that that doesn’t mean that they all can, or want to, It is not a valid reason to increase the difficulty for everyone else starting out.

DnD already has a giant hurdle of knowledge to overcome before you can play and understand how things are worked quickly.

 

[tetrasodium]

Just because some players can do that that doesn’t mean that they all can, or want to, It is not a valid reason to increase the difficulty for everyone else starting out.

DnD already has a giant hurdle of knowledge to overcome before you can play and understand how things are worked quickly.

You know that starter sets come with pregen characters right? A few AL seasons have also had downloadable pre-made PCs iirc.

 

[Horwath]

Just because some players can do that that doesn’t mean that they all can, or want to, It is not a valid reason to increase the difficulty for everyone else starting out.

DnD already has a giant hurdle of knowledge to overcome before you can play and understand how things are worked quickly.

well, there is always a fighter champion for those that cannot bother to learn anything.
19-20 crit at 1st level should not be that complicated.

 

[Clint_L]

Let's not move the goalposts.

I would like to see the sub-classes at level 3 made more uniform, so for example clerics and wizards not choosing their specialties until then, either. But OneD&D is not making fundamental changes, so that is not on the table.

The current system works fairly well. It keeps the game a bit more basic to avoid overload right out of the gate, and it allows those of us who prefer character creation to come out of gameplay a few sessions to see how the character is growing before they make that big decision. Maybe something happens in game that takes them down a particular path.

In my beginner campaigns, it is usually 3 games to get to level 3 (first game at level 1, games 2-3 at level 2). Going from published material by WotC, this seems to be the general design intent. For players who absolutely must start with their subclass in place, there is always the option to start at Level 3.

I'm not seeing a huge problem here that needs a solution, so I strongly doubt we see any significant change for OneD&D.

 

[Blue]

Some people really underestimate the intelligence of new players.

I've seen new player play 3rd level tiefling aberrant mind sorcerer with bonus feat at 1st level(shadow touched) without too much problems.
That was 6 cantrips and 9 spells know, 3 of those have extra 1/day free cast. Plus metamagic options.

In this sort of thing you aren't planning for any one particular player, you are looking for the lowest common demoninator among all of the players. If everyone who wants to play can, but a bright player exceeds the bar and plays more advanced characters from the start that's not a bad thing. That's not what we're measuring against.

 

[Blue]

Lots of people are talking about subclasses at 1st or at 1st & 2nd. No one is talking about the other half I laid out needed for that - a different multiclassing schema that doens't allow cherry picking. What would you suggest for that which would feel like a good 5e-esqe style fit?