D&D (2024) Subclasses

[Yaarel]

By the way, I just noticed the table is missing the Fighter class (FTR), I added its subclass levels.

Where are you getting the Wizard subclasses from? Are those your own hopes or were they confirmed? Where is Necromancer?

The Wizard subclasses are currently uncertain except for the UA Evoker.

However, the Bladesinger and the Warmage do well in DnDBeyond stats.

I initially had Illusionist as the fourth of the core four Wizard subclasses, assuming it would be a nod to the 1e Old School for the Anniversary Edition. However, in the DnDBeyond stats, the Necromancer does better than the Illusionist, and now I am less sure. In any case, I expect the UA Playtest 7 to reveal all four Wizard subclasses.

 

[Marandahir]

Oh I'm sure it will,

By the way, I just noticed the table is missing the Fighter class (FTR), I added its subclass levels.



The Wizard subclasses are currently uncertain except for the UA Evoker.

However, the Bladesinger and the Warmage do well in DnDBeyond stats.

I initially had Illusionist as the fourth of the core four Wizard subclasses, assuming it would be a nod to the 1e Old School for the Anniversary Edition. However, in the DnDBeyond stats, the Necromancer does better than the Illusionist, and now I am less sure. In any case, I expect the UA Playtest 7 to reveal all four Wizard subclasses.

Oh, I'm sure it will, but I just feel like if anything Necromancer would be exiled to the DMG like Death Domain and Oathbreaker…

And Transmuter was in Essentials Kit so it's what WotC considers "Subclass #2" for the class.

 

[Yaarel]

Oh I'm sure it will,

Oh, I'm sure it will, but I just feel like if anything Necromancer would be exiled to the DMG like Death Domain and Oathbreaker…

Good point. (Heh, 4e would have made it front and center, "darker, edgier".) On a positive note, if the 2024 DMs Guide presents the Necromancer variant in a way that intends most DMs to allow it, the extra page count can help the Wizard squeeze more subclasses into the core books.

And Transmuter was in Essentials Kit so it's what WotC considers "Subclass #2" for the class.

The Transmutation spell school itself is an inconsistent mess. I am unsure how helpful a subclass would be that relies on it.

If the Transmutation focused exactly on the Element of Earth, and Plant and Beast, it might make a flavorful and somewhat focused subclass. It would specialize in "earthy" magic, but also creating objects, in addition to nature magic and shapeshifting, but sometimes Monstrosity experiments of Plant and Beast.

 

[Marandahir]

Good point. (Heh, 4e would have made it front and center, "darker, edgier".) On a positive note, if the 2024 DMs Guide presents the Necromancer variant in a way that intends most DMs to allow it, the extra page count can help the Wizard squeeze more subclasses into the core books.


The Transmutation spell school itself is an inconsistent mess. I am unsure how helpful a subclass would be that relies on it.

If the Transmutation focused exactly on the Element of Earth, and Plant and Beast, it might make a flavorful and somewhat focused subclass. It would specialize in "earthy" magic, but also creating objects, in addition to nature magic and shapeshifting, but sometimes Monstrosity experiments of Plant and Beast.

Sure, but that would be more like a Bladesinger, Warmage, Chronurgist, Graviturgist, or Scribe - not a School Specialist Wizard but a cool Wizard-y concept subclass.

The Spell School subclasses still need to be somewhere. At least Thunderwave is no longer a transmutation…

 

[Yaarel]

a cool Wizard-y concept subclass.

I suspect that is what 2024 is going for.

The Spell School subclasses still need to be somewhere.

Heh, I suspect invitations to continue using 2014.

If a school can become a "cool wizardly concept", it will probably show up in a supplement.

At least Thunderwave is no longer a transmutation…

Where? Playtest 6 lists Thunderwave as a transmutation. If it is an evocation, that would be most appropriate.

From what I can tell, they were trying to make sound the Earth Element damage type, whence put it in Transmutation.

But it is far more flavorful to make "Thunder and Lightning" Air damage types. Hence Evocation.

For me, the Earth damage type is obviously the Weapon damage types: Bludgeon, Pierce, and Slash.

 

[DavyGreenwind]

The Wizard subclasses are currently uncertain except for the UA Evoker.

However, the Bladesinger and the Warmage do well in DnDBeyond stats.

I initially had Illusionist as the fourth of the core four Wizard subclasses, assuming it would be a nod to the 1e Old School for the Anniversary Edition. However, in the DnDBeyond stats, the Necromancer does better than the Illusionist, and now I am less sure. In any case, I expect the UA Playtest 7 to reveal all four Wizard subclasses.

I'll bet you it's Evoker, Necromancer, Illusionist, and Diviner.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

I'll bet you it's Evoker, Necromancer, Illusionist, and Diviner.

The big problem is the tiny number of spells in the spell schools. There are so many schools that have dead spell levels.

• Evoker is an obvious choice. It's super useful in combat.
• Necromancer has an obvious theme, and it gives a dark, edgy option. It can be used well in combat and there are some edgy buffs. But like many schools there isn't a Necromancy spell for every spell level.
• Illusionist is old-school. But it needs a really compelling facelift. It's not popular because it kinda sucks. It's not compelling and DMs have a hard time adjudicating the subjective expectations of illusions. "Can I make an illusion of a 20-ft. obsidian sphere, which means people can't see through it, but I can because I know it is an illusion?"; "Can I make an illusion of a monster that hurts someone if they believe it?
• Diviner has become popular because it gives the wizard agency over die rolls. But like many schools, it is a small spell list, and there isn't a Divination spell for every spell level.

Does anyone else think it is important for arcane spell schools to have a decent number of spell options, at least one of every spell level? What good is a discount on scribing spells of a particular school if there are no spells of that school for a particular spell level?

 

[WanderingMystic]

So we were explicitly told that the evoker and necromancer were in the phb which leaves us only two slots. While I would love to see bladesinger and it has a lot of fans I am not sure that it is going to make the cut. Illusionist is what most of me assumes will be in the new book but as Mirrororrim points out illusions are difficult. I would have much preferred that they revamped War Mage to fold in some more of the evoker and put that in its place but I guess the evoker is to iconic so due to that I doubt that we will see the war mage they just fit the same notch so I doubt that they will both be in the core book.

 

[Marandahir]

I suspect that is what 2024 is going for.


Heh, I suspect invitations to continue using 2014.

If a school can become a "cool wizardly concept", it will probably show up in a supplement.


Where? Playtest 6 lists Thunderwave as a transmutation. If it is an evocation, that would be most appropriate.

From what I can tell, they were trying to make sound the Earth Element damage type, whence put it in Transmutation.

But it is far more flavorful to make "Thunder and Lightning" Air damage types. Hence Evocation.

For me, the Earth damage type is obviously the Weapon damage types: Bludgeon, Pierce, and Slash.

No, Thunderwave is once again an evocation according to the designer notes. If it’s listed accidentally as a transmutation somewhere, that’s a copy error.

So we were explicitly told that the evoker and necromancer were in the phb which leaves us only two slots. While I would love to see bladesinger and it has a lot of fans I am not sure that it is going to make the cut. Illusionist is what most of me assumes will be in the new book but as Mirrororrim points out illusions are difficult. I would have much preferred that they revamped War Mage to fold in some more of the evoker and put that in its place but I guess the evoker is to iconic so due to that I doubt that we will see the war mage they just fit the same notch so I doubt that they will both be in the core book.

I ask again, where was Necromancer explicitly confirmed?

 

[Yaarel]

No, Thunderwave is once again an evocation according to the designer notes. If it’s listed accidentally as a transmutation somewhere, that’s a copy error.

Youre right. Designer Notes mention Thunderwave is "once again an Evocation". In the Arcane spell list it is Evocation. But in the Primal spell list it is Transmutation, obviously an error. And hurray!

I ask again, where was Necromancer explicitly confirmed?

Inquiring minds want to know!