Sum Mon III - Dretch - Unbalanced?

[Bronn Spellforger]

Summon Monster III (3rd level spell) allows the caster to summon and control a Dretch.

Dretch's can cast Telekenisis (5th level spell) at will.

Doesn't this allow a 5th level Wizard access to a spell (albeit through a third party) that he doesn't get until 9th level?

Even better, Dretchs speak Draconic, so no need to cast Tongues if you speak this (and most Wizards do).

I guess the argument is that the lil' buggers only have 9 HP, so another Wizard could pretty easily wipe them out.

 

[Savage Wombat]

Interesting - of course, since Dretches are non-intelligent, I'd be inclined to balance things by forbidding the player from instructing one in non-combat. They just blindly attack things - they don't fetch objects from high shelves for clever magi.

 

[Tom Cashel]

It's not Unbalanced with me as the DM!

But Bronn, the preferred (and infinitely more irritating) nomenclature for the D&D Rules Forum is "broken." You're supposed to claim that the spell is "broken," and wonder why everyone lashes out at you.

 

[Shin Okada]

Dretch's can cast Telekinesis (5th level spell) at will.

Doesn't this allow a 5th level Wizard access to a spell (albeit through a third party) that he doesn't get until 9th level?

Remember a Dretch casts it as a 2nd level Sorcerer. This affects both the amount of weight he can manipulate and duration. Do not expect to get 9th level Wizard's power. Also, Dretch have no CHA bonus and thus DC of the spell-like abilities are not so high (15 for Telekinesis).

Even better, Dretchs speak Draconic, so no need to cast Tongues if you speak this (and most Wizards do). [/QUOTE]

So what? How often do you let a summoned Dretch do something beyond attacking your foe? And how good a Dretch can be, on doing such tasks?

 

[Bronn Spellforger]

Re: Re: Sum Mon III - Dretch - Unbalanced?

So what? How often do you let a summoned Dretch do something beyond attacking your foe? And how good a Dretch can be, on doing such tasks?

I dunno, those little buggers can be particularly useful. Considering the spell states: "If the character can communicate with the outsider, the character can direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions."

Keep in mind, Dretchs can also cast Stinking Cloud, Darkness, and Scare. That's a bunch of extra spells at the character's disposal.

Originally posted by Shin Okada
Remember a Dretch casts it as a 2nd level Sorcerer. This affects both the amount of weight he can manipulate and duration.

That's a damn good point. Telekinisis of only 20 pounds isn't much better than mage hand!

Originally posted by Tom Cashel, Magnificent Bastard
[But Bronn, the preferred (and infinitely more irritating) nomenclature for the D&D Rules Forum is "broken." You're supposed to claim that the spell is "broken," and wonder why everyone lashes out at you.

Good point, Tom. I would like to officially declare this spell broken beyond repair (insert derogatory comment about Forgotten Realms, Monte Cook, or the Sage, here)

 

[Jeremy]

LOL Bronn

 

[Sigma]

If you want to see truely broken tk on a weak creature, check out the githyanki. They get to use it as a 16th level caster IIRC, and have dimension door and clariaudience/voyance on top of that. All for being CR 1. Can't wait to see an ECL on those buggers.

 

[Jeremy]

According to the designer, +2. According to WotC's new no-non-core races policy, it'll probably be around 12 or so.

 

[Tom Cashel]

So....

knowledge of Summon Monster III gives a character knowledge of all the abilities of a Dretch?

Seems like the summoning spell should give the caster a general idea of what the summoned creature can do.

If you assume your character has an itemized list of all its abilities, and you're telling it in Draconic, "Okay, now scare them...now do a stinking cloud right over there..." then as DM, I would begin to take into account the Dretch's Intelligence score of 5.

Not quite "non-intelligent," as Savage Wombat said, but dumb enough to get reeeeaaaally annoying if you try to use it as your summoned henchman.

Gee, Bronn...I love when you give me ideas.

 

[hong]

Not quite "non-intelligent," as Savage Wombat said, but dumb enough to get reeeeaaaally annoying if you try to use it as your summoned henchman.

Given that the point of the summon monster X spells is to give you a summoned henchman for 1-20 rounds, I find this a rather strange reaction.