D&D 5E Summon Greater Demon, Arcane Focus and blood of a humanoid killed in the last 24 hours

[Maxperson]

It’d be pretty hard to interpret it any other way, since that’s exactly what it says.

Yeah, I think that’s the best interpretation. The spell can be cast in a way that doesn’t consume the component, or in a way that does. If you want to cast it in the way that does consume the component, then you need the actual component for it to consume. It’s practically tautological.

Yeah, I this is a far weaker argument, and IMO doesn’t hold up.

The way the spell reads you only use up the blood if you draw the circle with it. Realistically, though, how often are you going to be casting that spell in a 24 hour period such that 1) your vial isn't hasn't hit its expiration date, and 2) the humanoid killed didn't have enough blood for 326153 small vials, so you only have 1?

The second consideration is that if you don't bind it within the circle, the odds are very good that it will soon escape and start eating peoples faces for 1d6 rounds.

 

[Maxperson]

RAW on this is pretty clear, the only material component that cannot be ignored through an arcane focus or component pouch is ones with a cost.

This component doesn’t have a cost. Now if you want to try an argue the component has a “cost” in some kind of moral terms, well that opens the door pretty wide to other components that could be considered “hard to collect”. Cost is dnd is cash, that’s just the way it is.

That seems like a huge oversight and unlike the others behind that door, is one that I'm going to correct should any player in my game want to take the spell.

 

[Maxperson]

In the other interpretation, you determine if the spell has a section that describes consuming the component. If so, the spell does state that the spell does consume the component. This is similar to how I consume hamburgers. I do not consume them all the time, obviously, but I sure as heck do consume them, and in fact, I would argue that I perhaps consume them too often. The component is consumed by the spell, just like hamburgers are consumed by me. Because the spell is a spell that consumes that material component, the spell is a spell that requires that material component in order to be cast.

That's a pretty good argument. The passage just says that if the spell has component that is consumed the the caster has to supply the component, not that if the spell has a component that is consumed, the caster has to supply the caster during those castings that consume it.

That said I think that while it can be interpreted in either direction, the intent was likely that you must provide the component when it is being consumed.

Bonus points for providing an analogy that fits so well. If you buy that hamburger and don't consume it within 24 hours, it's probably no longer good to consume.

 

[Maxperson]

Even if you and the DM agree on the one interpretation and another player disagrees: Telling that player they are wrong to think as they do can be a negative experience for that player and result in disengagement.

That's why if I'm going to tell them that they are wrong, I go all the way and say that they are wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, giggity, wrong, wrong, wrong!

Seriously, though, it's rare that I simply put my foot down and rule in a way that the players don't agree with. This would be one of those cases. I'm simply not going to allow a spell component pouch to always have a vial of blood from a humanoid killed in the last 24 hours. If there were no expiration date or it was like 30 days, I'd just assume that the caster was refilling it after an orc encounter or something. 24 hours is what makes it very problematic for me to do that.

 

[Maxperson]

Yeah, the RAW says you could use an arcane focus or a spell component pouch... but the fact that you're asking questions about it suggest you know that it's hinky. The spell, as written, is supposed to be nasty. Let it be nasty and get the blood or do without the circle. If I were DMing in a situation where a player wanted to use it, that's what I'd rule.

If the goal is to keep the spell nasty, you can't actually do without the circle. The spell requires the blood no matter what, but the blood is only consumed if you use it for a circle. It's a nasty spell regardless.

 

[SkidAce]

Check out the difference in component description from Xanathar's to Tasha's.

Tasha Summon Fiend

Xanathar Summon Greater Fiend

 

[Stalker0]

That seems like a huge oversight and unlike the others behind that door, is one that I'm going to correct should any player in my game want to take the spell.

To me just add in a 1 CP cost, its a trivial cost for the party but then fixes the rules issue.

 

[SkidAce]

It occurs to me links may not work for all;

Tasha's : (humanoid blood inside a ruby vial worth at least 600 gp) (6th level spell, Summon Fiend)

Xanathar's: (a vial of blood from a humanoid killed within the past 24 hours) (4th level spell, Summon Greater Demon)

 

[Maxperson]

To me just add in a 1 CP cost, its a trivial cost for the party but then fixes the rules issue.

I'd make it higher than that. I doubt people are selling murderer humanoid blood on street corners.

 

[SkidAce]

Using the Tasha version, it doesn't say the blood is consumed.

So get a 600gp vial and dump some of your own in there. Done.