D&D 5E Summon Greater Demon, Arcane Focus and blood of a humanoid killed in the last 24 hours

[Stalker0]

I'd make it higher than that. I doubt people are selling murderer humanoid blood on street corners.

I mean whatever you want. Remember even holy water doesn't have a cost because its "such a tiny portion". The goal is just to ensure the party considers it a "true component" rather than a "I have my wand I don't care" kind of component.

The other option is to add to the spell description that the blood cannot be ignored through a component pouch or arcane focus, adding an exception that highlights this component is a key one rather than "fluff".

You could use a similar clause with something like banishment that technically has the same problem. The material component is in theory something that might be an interesting research or acquisition quest (a "thing distasteful to the target"). But by RAW again an arcane focus or a spell component pouch covers you.

 

[jmartkdr2]

Note that if a spell states the component is consumed, it must be provided for each casting, whether or not is has a cost. This is generally taken to mean that foci cannot replaced consumed components even without cost.

As far as I know, the only examples are protection from evil and good (which consume holy water but doesn't say how much) and summon greater demon.

 

[Stalker0]

Note that if a spell states the component is consumed, it must be provided for each casting, whether or not is has a cost. This is generally taken to mean that foci cannot replaced consumed components even without cost.

As far as I know, the only examples are protection from evil and good (which consume holy water but doesn't say how much) and summon greater demon.

Here is the relevant passage so we are all on the same page.

Material (M)​

Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell.

If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell. A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus -- but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components.


Unfortunately there is nothing here that overrides the use of a spellcasting focus. The rules says I can use the focus in place of components. The only exception is for a component with a cost.

The note you must have the components each time you use the spell.....simply means I must have my focus each time I cast the spell, because every time I am allowed to use the focus in place of the components.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

Using the Tasha version, it doesn't say the blood is consumed.

So get a 600gp vial and dump some of your own in there. Done.

Tasha's "Summon Fiend" is a completely different spell than "Summon Greater Demon". It's 6th level rather than 4th, to start with, and conjures a fiend that's unfailably loyal, unlike the dangerously unreliable one you get with Summon Greater Demon. On the other hand, SGD can potentially summon considerably stronger creatures than other summoning spells at the same level.

 

[Charlaquin]

The way the spell reads you only use up the blood if you draw the circle with it. Realistically, though, how often are you going to be casting that spell in a 24 hour period such that 1) your vial isn't hasn't hit its expiration date, and 2) the humanoid killed didn't have enough blood for 326153 small vials, so you only have 1?

The second consideration is that if you don't bind it within the circle, the odds are very good that it will soon escape and start eating peoples faces for 1d6 rounds.

I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said here.

 

[Maxperson]

I mean whatever you want. Remember even holy water doesn't have a cost because its "such a tiny portion". The goal is just to ensure the party considers it a "true component" rather than a "I have my wand I don't care" kind of component.

Holy water doesn't have an expiration date, though. That's my major issue here. It's just not feasible to think that you are going to be refilling that with new blood from a killed humanoid every 24 hours, especially if you are travelling through the wilds and haven't come across any.

The minor issue is the horror involved. I mean using fresh blood from a dead humanoid seems like it would often be a fairly evil thing.

The other option is to add to the spell description that the blood cannot be ignored through a component pouch or arcane focus, adding an exception that highlights this component is a key one rather than "fluff".

That works, too. I'm just saying why I would rule how I would rule.

You could use a similar clause with something like banishment that technically has the same problem. The material component is in theory something that might be an interesting research or acquisition quest (a "thing distasteful to the target"). But by RAW again an arcane focus or a spell component pouch covers you.

I can see that. It's a less egregious component in my opinion, though. It isn't specifically something that will expire and can likely be achieved at minimal cost. Creatures find lots of different things distasteful.

 

[Maxperson]

I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said here.

Edit: Never mind. I misread your response. Carry on!

 

[Charlaquin]

Edit: Never mind. I misread your response. Carry on!

Alas, my penchant for double negatives doesn’t not mess me up again

 

[ECMO3]

The way the spell reads you only use up the blood if you draw the circle with it. Realistically, though, how often are you going to be casting that spell in a 24 hour period such that 1) your vial isn't hasn't hit its expiration date, and 2) the humanoid killed didn't have enough blood for 326153 small vials, so you only have 1?

Pretty regularly think. This pretty much eliminates the spell on the first combat after 24+ hours of downtime. Also on any adventuring days you spend scouring the earth of Undead, Dragons, Oozes, Fey etc. There are a lot of days you don't chop down a humanoid.

Play Tomb of Annihilation for example and there will be few days you do have the vial available.

The second consideration is that if you don't bind it within the circle, the odds are very good that it will soon escape and start eating peoples faces for 1d6 rounds.

The circle doesn't bind it, it protects you (and only you, not your allies). Although it is an hour long spell the save every turn means it is essentially a 1-battle spell, even if you know the true name.

Since you control the demon (until it makes its save), the idea is to cast it and then have him do what you want (which could be eat bad guys faces), and when he makes his save he keeps eating their faces for a few more rounds if you are lucky (or starts eating your allies faces if you are not lucky).

I have never actually used the spell before, but in terms of power, it appears to be the most powerful summon spell there is in terms of raw power. For a 4th level slot you can summon a Babau that gives you at will Dispel Magic at no action cost (as well as at will Fear at a low DC) or a Barlgura to rip faces off. A 5th level slot will give you a Vrock that has ranged stun, can fly and poison opponents. If they make their save, the go into beast mode and "spend turns persuing and attacking the nearest non-demons", which means with careful placement you can still make it so it probably won't hurt your allies.

Edit: I guess there is a use where you have it for an hour. Cast it in the middle of an enemy city and then teleport out of there but maintain concentration. The Demon will make his save and be uncontrolled before the hour runs out but he will go around rampaging until he is killed or you lose concentration. This is a highly situational use though.

 

[Baron Opal II]

The way the spell reads you only use up the blood if you draw the circle with it. Realistically, though, how often are you going to be casting that spell in a 24 hour period such that 1) your vial isn't hasn't hit its expiration date, and 2) the humanoid killed didn't have enough blood for 326153 small vials, so you only have 1?

Well, ahem, around 152 vials with enough blood to draw two circles each. Roughly, assuming complete drainage.

Filling 50 vials would be straight-forward.