Superhero RPGS

[Black Omega]

All this talk of Batman's disappearing schtick reminds me of GURPS and its rules for, well, schticks (as handily explained in the GURPS Lite rules on the web; I've never actually played the system). It's probably too powerful for a GURPS schtick, though.

Really, it's just used to end conversations rather than anything all that powerful. Ranger Marcus Cole often used the same trick in Babylon 5, it's more cool trick that powerful tactic.

But seriously, what is it that Bats does? He hangs out on rooftops and ambushes thugs. Stealth is his trading card. It wouldn't be Bats if he didn't have maximum stealth abilities. From that perspective, he needs no real powers - just super-heavy-duty Move Silently, Hide and Bluff (to get the Commissioner to glance over somewhere else. "Look at these prison records, Jim"). I probably wouldn't even bother making checks unless the 'victim' was good with Listen or Spot.

Seems like a fair way to handle it. Let it work on mook criminals and his friends automatically.

Sadly, I've never taken a good look over Hero System rules, so I can't speak for them. I know they've got stealth skills of various types, but not how they work.

The usual. Contested Stealth v. Perception checks. It's simply a 3d6 roll and how much it is made by.

Although I do find it telling (in terms of simplicity) that the sample PDFs I downloaded can fit a HERO character's statblock on one page, while M&M has a bunch of archetypes in the front of the book - two to a page, with customisation options, big colourful graphics, and an illustration of each.

The Hero 5th Ed book is not the least bit colorful, I'm afraid. Of course, it's 370 pages and only costs $40, adding color would have really added to the cost. I can't comment on the pdf's but in the Champions supplment, characters varied from a half page to a full page, depending on the type, and thanks to the format which is not really designed to put alot into a small space like the d20 stat blocks. More basic hero types like your basic strong, tough Hulk type can be done in a half page for stats. Add in another half page for artwork, background and other information. A more complex character like a batman, with many skills and gadgets takes up more space.

 

[Voneth]

Hence, teleport with the listed limitations that I plug into my Batman Multipower.

Cedric

Just to let you know, MnM has a detailed set of guidelines for creating a "power" from scratch, which in essense can be serve like a Multipower. In fact, MnM calls its 100 listed powers as sample powers and then in the power creation section gives two additional powers called "Battlesuit" and "Machine Control." Battlesuit is a whole suite of effects related to the theme of a battlesuit. Sound familar.

Sure one more way of doing the whole teleport thing would be to include it in a "Batman" custom power. In fact, that just makes my previous suggestions even cheaper.

And like in Champions, such a custom power can be tailored to what the designer envisons what Batman's powers truly are.

 

[Desdichado]

So yes, it is something just for flavor. But in the grand tradition of flavor, I want it to be cheap...and I want it to work correctly.

Hence, teleport with the listed limitations that I plug into my Batman Multipower.

Dude, are you reading your own posts? For flavor reasons, you're saying that the best way to emulate a Batman ability is to give him teleport?!?

How exactly does a teleporting Batman give him the correct flavor?

 

[Green Knight]

Originally posted by Piratecat Oh, sure you could! In fact, that would be insanely easy, especially if you use the optional "1PP = 3 skill points" variant. No problem at all.

OK, this is driving me nuts. WHERE in the M&M book does it have that option? I'd use it if I knew where to find it.

 

[Cedric]

Dude, are you reading your own posts? For flavor reasons, you're saying that the best way to emulate a Batman ability is to give him teleport?!? How exactly does a teleporting Batman give him the correct flavor?

You are missing the beauty of Hero. Just because the base power is named Teleport, doesn't mean the special affect is teleportation. That's just the game mechanic.

Just because you do it one way on in the rules, doesn't mean it comes across that way.

In my example, does Batman really teleport? No, he just leaves quickly in a manner such that the other guy doesn't notice. The teleportation is just the game affect used to explain that.

There are really two layers to everything in Hero. There is the rules layer, where you explain how it works in the game system. Then there is the special affect, which explains how the power really works and how it appears to others.

They are both very important to the game.

One guy shoots lightning bolts from his fingers. The other guy pulls out a blaster rifle. They both are using either Ranged Killing Attacks or Energy Blasts, just with a different special affect.

Cedric

 

[Caliber]

You are missing the beauty of Hero. Just because the base power is named Teleport, doesn't mean the special affect is teleportation. That's just the game mechanic.

Just because you do it one way on in the rules, doesn't mean it comes across that way.

In my example, does Batman really teleport? No, he just leaves quickly in a manner such that the other guy doesn't notice. The teleportation is just the game affect used to explain that.

There are really two layers to everything in Hero. There is the rules layer, where you explain how it works in the game system. Then there is the special affect, which explains how the power really works and how it appears to others.

They are both very important to the game.

One guy shoots lightning bolts from his fingers. The other guy pulls out a blaster rifle. They both are using either Ranged Killing Attacks or Energy Blasts, just with a different special affect.

Cedric

And THAT is why I love HERO so dearly. I own M&M but I admit I haven't read it much (and while everyone else says its easy to learn, it sure confused the hell out of me when I tried to follow it.)

I've read good reviews of Silver Age Sentinals and the tri-stat system, but most agree the d20 conversion isn't very good.

No one has mentioned DNW (Deeds Not Words) made by Scott Lynch. Its really good, and at about $10 for roughly 300+ pages of stuff, a great deal (its a pdf though)

You can find his site at this link

 

[Voneth]

There are really two layers to everything in Hero. There is the rules layer, where you explain how it works in the game system. Then there is the special affect, which explains how the power really works and how it appears to others.

They are both very important to the game.

One guy shoots lightning bolts from his fingers. The other guy pulls out a blaster rifle. They both are using either Ranged Killing Attacks or Energy Blasts, just with a different special affect.

Cedric

It was such a good idea that MnM borrowed it and also expanded on it to include the Power Source. A power source is basicly the back story why a hero has a power. Is his Super Dex from a gentic Mutation or years of intense chi Training? Is another hero's Energy Blast based on the nanobots Super Science that runs though his body, or gentic Mutation?

The difference in Power Sources comes into play when the super villian flips on a Device that puts up a Neutrilize (Extra: Area, Only Mutation Power Sources.)

Yes indeed, a flame-based mutant is going to have problems if he's in the Antartic and catches the mutegenic plauge.

I am not anti-HERO here, I just think that some people are selling MnM short on it's versitility. What ever works for you, works for you and have fun.

(and while everyone else says its easy to learn, it sure confused the hell out of me when I tried to follow it.)

To some degree, it may be that while MnM has nearly the same flexiblity, it takes a different mindset. I had a Champs player who kept wanting to create a suite of weapons for a Warmachine character, but he was trying to buy each weapon (chaingun, flame thower and missle rack) seperate.

I told him to buy one Energy Blast (or Weapon Power) and then buy Area for the close and far ranges of the attack and Multifire for the mid ranges, the cost was the same, only one more point per level than the original power. Elegant, efficient and creative, just how I like my games.

 

[Desdichado]

You are missing the beauty of Hero. Just because the base power is named Teleport, doesn't mean the special affect is teleportation. That's just the game mechanic.

Just because you do it one way on in the rules, doesn't mean it comes across that way.

You present that as if that were a good thing...

 

[Caliber]

To some degree, it may be that while MnM has nearly the same flexiblity, it takes a different mindset. I had a Champs player who kept wanting to create a suite of weapons for a Warmachine character, but he was trying to buy each weapon (chaingun, flame thower and missle rack) seperate.

I told him to buy one Energy Blast (or Weapon Power) and then buy Area for the close and far ranges of the attack and Multifire for the mid ranges, the cost was the same, only one more point per level than the original power. Elegant, efficient and creative, just how I like my games.

I'll admit my main problem seemed to be wrapping my mind around the changes. I've been playing 3E for so long it was odd switching into M&M's d20-like rules. Plus with Champion background ...

I think a proper anology is learning a different language. Same meanings, different words.

You present that as if that were a good thing...

Uhm ... thats because it is.

 

[Cedric]

You present that as if that were a good thing...

In my opinion it is a good thing. Being able to apply a multitude (almost limitless number) of special affects to the listed set of powers allows you to create abilities and powers that you would never imagine you could create just from reading the list in the book.

Cedric