Sword Coast Legends To Introduce RAGE OF DEMONS and Tile Based Editor

Dan Tudge of n-Space, makers of Sword Coast Legends, has just posted a major "State of the Game" announcement which recognizes that opinion on the game has been polarizing and that it does not meet the expectations of many, and how the company plans to address those issues. To that end, there's a whole bunch of upcoming update packs, which include more areas, control enhancements, a "cleared" outdoor area ready for placeables, new races, and the two seemingly biggest enhancements: a tile-based editor and the Rage of Demons storyline.

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As Dan Tudge says, the game has had its fair share of complaints (it's currently trending at only 20.5% here at EN World). The biggest complaints about SCL - at least as far as I can make out - have been the lack of free DM area creation, and the way the game does not really use D&D 5E rules. The latter issue isn't addressed, but the December update includes:

• Official introduction of mod support, including
• Tile based level editor
• Branching dialog editor
• Adjustable game systems, ex: round timer, loot tables, etc.
• Community facing development of these features to begin immediately
• Option to disable monster level scaling in DM campaigns

I don't know if this will mean Neverwinter Nights levels of customization, but it certainly seems to be a major step forward.

The Rage of Demons storyline was expected, and includes tile sets, objects, a tiefling race, creatures, etc., as well as an adventure.

The full list of five major update packs can be found here.

 

[Dire Bare]

That's really getting nit-picky.
The bar isn't 100% fidelity or nothing. Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale were certainly closer to adhering to the 2nd Edition ruleset that, well, many of the actual games of 2e I played with friends. And much, much closer than SCL.

Heh, I'm seeing the "N-Space are liars" camp as the nit-pickers. But, again, clearly, we do not all agree.

So, you like the game. Okay, that's fair. No one is saying you're not allowed to find the game fun. But you don't need to defend the developers. Their degree of honesty has no bearing on your enjoyment of the game.

So, you don't like the game. Okay, that's fair. No one is saying you're not allowed to find the game severely disappointing. But you don't need to attack the developers. Their degree of competence has total bearing on your enjoyment of the game, but doesn't need to lead to attacks of dishonesty, where there is none.

Sorry (kinda) to turn that around, but yeah, I know it's okay for me to like the game. I don't need everyone on the internet to agree with me, or validate my life choices and preferences. I just really feel all the complaints that N-Space has been deceptive to be untrue and hyperbolic. And, since I hang out on a D&D message board, that kind of over-sensitive criticism sounds exactly like the same criticisms edition warriors on all sides lobbed at each other (and sometimes still do). And that kind of attitude really, really sets me off. Should you care? Probably not. But I'm not going to apologize for seeing things the way I do, or having the opinions that I have. When I see what I consider bad behavior, I'm going to call it out. Take it and reflect on your words and actions, or ignore it as crazy-talk.

 

[Jester David]

So, you don't like the game. Okay, that's fair. No one is saying you're not allowed to find the game severely disappointing. But you don't need to attack the developers. Their degree of competence has total bearing on your enjoyment of the game, but doesn't need to lead to attacks of dishonesty, where there is none.

I don't need to attack them, but their competence and honest very much does have a bearing on my enjoyment of the game. I went in expecting one thing and found something else entirely. They presented the game as one thing and it was something else. That's on them. I didn't pull my assumptions and expectations from nowhere, but came to them after reading interviews, listening to podcasts, and watching previews.

Had I gone into the game with different expectations, the same disappointment simply would not be there. I may have liked the game more, I may have liked it less, but I wouldn't feel lied to.
I can play a game I just don't like and not attack the developers. I can say "oh, that just wasn't as fun as I was expecting" or "that was okay but not great." But this situation is different from just not liking the game. My criticisms of the game in and of itself are very different from my criticisms of the developers.
I don't like Sword Coast Legends because I find the combat static, the gameplay slow at times with no penalty for death, numerous quality of life issues, rote quests, and the like. I don't like the DM tools because they're lacking basic features even the pretty barebones Neverwinter creator had. But I don't like the developers because they were deceptive at that colours my view of their work.

I just really feel all the complaints that N-Space has been deceptive to be untrue and hyperbolic. And, since I hang out on a D&D message board, that kind of over-sensitive criticism sounds exactly like the same criticisms edition warriors on all sides lobbed at each other (and sometimes still do). And that kind of attitude really, really sets me off. Should you care? Probably not. But I'm not going to apologize for seeing things the way I do, or having the opinions that I have. When I see what I consider bad behavior, I'm going to call it out. Take it and reflect on your words and actions, or ignore it as crazy-talk.

I try to be balanced. I don't always succeed, but I try. I'm willing to point out when people read to much into a statement, even if I did so myself, and recognize that sometimes misunderstandings happen. It would be very easy to view this as a misunderstanding where N-Space just said they were making an isometric D&D game that had an adventure creator and people reading too much into that and letting their excited imaginations fill in the gaps. Which is irritating, but that blame is shared.
But the more people post on this, more more interviews I re-read and images I look at, it really looks more and more like N-space was really, really trying to imply their game was like Baldur's Gate. They were vague on the details and how much the gameplay was related to the rules, but this feels like purposely vague. They avoided talking about that stuff. Avoided correcting people or managing expectations. Maybe they just lacked a marketing department or a community manager to point out how this was needed, but it's still frustrating.

 

[EthanSental]

I'm not sure what D&D games you've played, but as far back as Pools of Radiance, my gaming group at the time all entered our tabletop characters to play in the computer game. And as late as Neverwinter Nights, I literally recreated my 3E fighter ("Gorum the Butcher" lol) for the game, feats and all. I was hoping to do the same thing with this new game, and it has absolutely nothing to do with edition warring, or "crap language" or "BS" or however else you seem to want to disqualify a lot of people's opinions.

I smiled at this post since my friends that I've been playing with since the early 90s do the same and create our characters of our favorite group with any D&D type fantasy game...this one included

 

[Dire Bare]

I don't need to attack them, but their competence and honest very much does have a bearing on my enjoyment of the game. I went in expecting one thing and found something else entirely. They presented the game as one thing and it was something else. That's on them. I didn't pull my assumptions and expectations from nowhere, but came to them after reading interviews, listening to podcasts, and watching previews.

Had I gone into the game with different expectations, the same disappointment simply would not be there. I may have liked the game more, I may have liked it less, but I wouldn't feel lied to.
I can play a game I just don't like and not attack the developers. I can say "oh, that just wasn't as fun as I was expecting" or "that was okay but not great." But this situation is different from just not liking the game. My criticisms of the game in and of itself are very different from my criticisms of the developers.
I don't like Sword Coast Legends because I find the combat static, the gameplay slow at times with no penalty for death, numerous quality of life issues, rote quests, and the like. I don't like the DM tools because they're lacking basic features even the pretty barebones Neverwinter creator had. But I don't like the developers because they were deceptive at that colours my view of their work.


I try to be balanced. I don't always succeed, but I try. I'm willing to point out when people read to much into a statement, even if I did so myself, and recognize that sometimes misunderstandings happen. It would be very easy to view this as a misunderstanding where N-Space just said they were making an isometric D&D game that had an adventure creator and people reading too much into that and letting their excited imaginations fill in the gaps. Which is irritating, but that blame is shared.
But the more people post on this, more more interviews I re-read and images I look at, it really looks more and more like N-space was really, really trying to imply their game was like Baldur's Gate. They were vague on the details and how much the gameplay was related to the rules, but this feels like purposely vague. They avoided talking about that stuff. Avoided correcting people or managing expectations. Maybe they just lacked a marketing department or a community manager to point out how this was needed, but it's still frustrating.

Jester, I do have to apologize. I still disagree strongly with the idea that N-Space has been deceptive . . . less than competent? Sure. But deceptive? No. But I do largely feel that your review and discussions of the game are pretty fair, with that one exception. And I don't think you have any desire to unfairly attack the company.

But there is a lot of that going on. And I used your post to springboard my own point-of-view further as it was simply the latest one along that line, that N-Space has been deceptive with this game.

I'm probably going to bow out on further discussion, because at this point we're all mostly going back-and-forth repeating our opinions, I'm not sure there is much more to be said. Well, I'll try. Until somebody gets me all riled up!

 

[Jester David]

I'm probably going to bow out on further discussion, because at this point we're all mostly going back-and-forth repeating our opinions, I'm not sure there is much more to be said. Well, I'll try. Until somebody gets me all riled up!

Fair enough. Good talking with you. *fistbump*

 

[Sacrosanct]

I smiled at this post since my friends that I've been playing with since the early 90s do the same and create our characters of our favorite group with any D&D type fantasy game...this one included

Me three. Back in the day, I could reasonably port my TT PCs into the game, from the gold box series, all the way up to NWN2. Well, not so much for the Atari's version of D&D, but I can't really blame the video game for that.

With SCL? I can't do that with my 5e PCs. Only vague similarities for some of the classes and some of the races. Everything else is different. Shield bash that heals? Where is that for my level 1 fighter in 5e? SCL is about as close to 5e's rules as Diablo was to AD&D.

 

[amerigoV]

With SCL? I can't do that with my 5e PCs. Only vague similarities for some of the classes and some of the races. Everything else is different. Shield bash that heals? Where is that for my level 1 fighter in 5e? SCL is about as close to 5e's rules as Diablo was to AD&D.

Woah! - Healing on a Hit! I like it! We need a new subboard to argue endlessly how that is or is not D&D, too gamist, etc.

 

[Zaruthustran]

N-Space certainly has advertised fidelity to the 5E rules, but if you misinterpreted that to mean that SCL would be a direct port of the 5E rules, well, I can't help you there. SCL is most definitely an adaptation of the 5E ruleset to a video game format.

When the game's marketing materials (which are not written by N-Space, necessarily) says that the game, quote, "stayed true to the actual 5E ruleset"... the interpretation is that the game will stay true to the 5E ruleset. That's the interpretation. A misinterpretation would be to interpret "stayed true to the actual 5E ruleset" as meaning the game will be, as you say, "an adaptation of the 5E ruleset." Because that's not what the marketing materials actually said.

Your interpretation is the misinterpretation. Seriously. Look at the image I linked in that previous post, and at the bottom of this post. The words used in the marketing material are "stayed true to the actual 5E ruleset." SCL doesn't do that.

SCL is real-time; the "actual 5E ruleset" is turn-based.
SCL uses cooldowns; the "actual 5E ruleset" uses a rest mechanic.
SCL characters have tree-based power progression; the "actual 5E ruleset" does not.
SCL invents several powers that aren't in "the actual 5E ruleset."

And so on.

To say that SCL doesn't capture the feel of 5E to you personally is a fair statement. To say that N-Space has been deceptive, and has promised something that they did not deliver, is hyperbolic edition-warrior crap-talk . . . all IMHO, of course.

This isn't a matter of personal feelings. The game's marketing materials promise something the game doesn't deliver. That's not hyperbole; that's simply true. And it's why some folks are disappointed.

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[dd.stevenson]

I don't think it's that - I think it's more that us tableletop gamers literally aren't on their radar. I couldn't even get myself on their press mailing list, and I tried! They didn't make it for us. To them - and to the majority of folks, who don't play tabletop 5E - it is very similar to Baldur's Gate or NWN. The people who would distinguish between rule sets - us - are a niche of a niche.

I think you're drawing the wrong conclusion. Metacrtic's list of review summaries is littered with condemnations for not staying true to the ruleset ("its clear Diablo and Dragon Age influences may rub D&D purists the wrong way") and qualifiers disclaiming any connection to the 5E ruleset ("If you don't expect the promised but mostly missing D&D rules, you'll find...").

It sucks that you didn't get a press kit, but whatever the reasons I think you should look elsewhere than the niche-ness of TTRPGs.

 

[Mirtek]

None of the games you listed directly port the rules of D&D (any version) to the computer. Many try to get as close as possible, particularly the Gold Box series, but they do not reach 100%.

Trze

What we are arguing is the degree of fidelity to the rules, which is subjective on its own, and also subjective in its importance.

Here I have to disagree. SCL didn't try to fiddle with how much liberty they had to take to match the rules to their game engine, SCL just decided to throw the rules out of the window and slap a D&D theme on it's own non-D&D related ruleset. It's not the difference between going for 80% rather than 100%, it's about not going for them at all.

SCL is most definitely an adaptation of the 5E ruleset to a video game format.

Only if you count D&D pinball as an adaptation of the D&D ruleset to a video game format

The degree of fidelity is closer than some previous D&D games

Arena of War, Stronghold (which I adore and just typing it have to look at abandonia to re-install it) and that 2d beat'm'up

But those were all games that didn't even try to be close to D&D but to port it into an entirely different genre

To say that N-Space has been deceptive, and has promised something that they did not deliver, is hyperbolic edition-warrior crap-talk . . . all IMHO, of course.

I expect a game to be released when it's done.

According to their own statement: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...Editor/page3&p=6745722&viewfull=1#post6745722

They're cleary far from being done. I am willing to cut them some slack, as I recognize "anybody to be able to reproduce it" to certainly be an unachievable boost. But at the moment the stated goal can not just not be done by "anyobody" but not even be done by "a reasonable percentage" of players. Given their own mission statements the tools are grossly unfinished