Tactical Encounter Problems

[jimmifett]

Have the trap not sprung until they are in the middle of the room.

Give the monsters a stealth check for a surprise round. If a PC has Passive Perction high enough to beat the stealth check, they get to act in the surprise round.

Have monsters that can burrow,fly,crawl, phase through/around them.

Also, Think Left for Dead 2. (I actually have a full set of l4d2 heroic tier zombies i've created)

Spitter type Tactics:
Have a mage/monster create a damaging zone just behind the choke point, covering both groups. Acid, fire, etc. Place it such that a way that the defenders in the chock point would take more damage backing out to cover the squishies than running forward into the cave, leaving an opening for skirmishers to slip in.

Smoker type Tactics:
I seem to recall in one of the MM books a bug that has spider slimb, uses a sticky tongue thing, and can pull. Have one or too of them on a ledge over looking the choke point to drag the defender away and let brutes/skirmishers whack on him. Also, if high enough cave, wait on cieling and pull upwards into the air. Now your brutes and soldiers can pass underneath, and if ranged support kills the bug, defender takes fall damage / lands prone.

Charger type Tactics:
Unfortunately, there isn't anything I've come across that replicates a charger very well, other than what i've created myself. Closest thing is push/pull/slide effects for monsters. Traps on the other hand... Add an Indiana Jones Boulder rolling down the choke point. On a hit, do damage and push target 2 squares, on miss, half damage, push target 1 square. Follow up with Skirmishers.

Horde:
Lots of minion skirmishers. Especially if they have spider climb.

Add some player powers to an evil wizard as an encounter or recharge 6, such as Flaming Sphere. Roll that towards the choke point and see how they run like pigs from a gun (coo coo ga joob). Naturally, follow up with skirmishers.

Use swarms. They can move through the defenders, or just make standing in the choke point uncomfortable, as well as limit the damage potential from melee defenders and ranged weapon players until they use bursts. Fun thing about bursts, they often like to target creatures instead of enemies, meaning your defenders need to get out of the way. Enter skirmishers.

Charging Gelatinus Cube! (or anything else with engulf) Eat the defenders!

Rope swings. Have enemies on cliffs holds ropes swing over the defenders and drop down. Have them make an athletics check to swing twice thier move as a move action and drop (fail and they move normal and drop). Make an acrobatics roll when they drop. Succeed, mitigate falling damage and land on feet, fail, take normal falling damage and land prone. They are now behind defenders. works well with skirmishers, add a brute to keep the defenders seperated from the squishies.

Add 10ft+ pits and use with the Horde strategy. Think 300. Wall on one side, pit on the other of the choke point. Every chance you can, have a minion charge and bull rush, trying to push the defender into the pit. with 8 minions, you will have several chances per round, and eventually it will pay off. once the way is clear, charge your monsters in while defender is in the pit.

Add attractive fantastic terrain, such as Blood Rock or a Font of Power or a Sacred Circle in the middle of the room. Hopefully you can entice your defenders out of the choke and into the open. Or use Blood rock for your artillery, and now they have to enter just to get him off that tile. Be descriptive, saying "you notice tendrils of red, blood like energy writhe up from the blood red rock at the kobold archer's feet and infuse his bow". Now the players have an idea what is going on, and will covet that square. Place one 2 or 3 squares past the choke point to entice on the of ranged strikers to come forward and take that square.

Have players trained in dungeoneering make a medium DC check to notice a Rock Slide trap that would be benificial to the players, but they have to come out and be adjacent to the trigger. Have artillery minions on a too high ledge that either get crushed, or the ground falls out beneath them and they come sliding down. You lose the artillery minions, but now you have unprotected party memebers in the open.

Staggered encounter. You have your goblin brute, artillery and minions inside the cave. After 1 or 2 rounds, a patrol/returning raiding party approaches from behind with a soldier, a skirmisher, and more minions.

Domination! Nothing says fun like forcing the defender to charge backwards at his party and make an MBA or bull rush into a pit Doesn't even have to be full domination, find a monster with the charm keyword that makes the target take a whack on someone else (Duergar Cleric of Asmodeus for example). They will now spread out a bit, leaving openings. You could even target the ranged striker hiding in back and make THEM shoot the defenders for lols. "Sorry, my hand slipped?".

3D terrain. Sure you have a choke point, but it's on the ground level. things on the ledge above can run around and drop down behind the choke point. Make sure there are ladders beyond the choke point for the players to climb so they can get at those nasty artillery shooting fish in a barrel. That forces them to also leave the safety of the choke point.

 

[Zinovia]

Great suggestions Jimmifett. I'd xp you, but I have to spread some around first.

Hostages or innocent bystanders are another good incentive to get your group into the room and out of the doorway. My players always rush right in to save them, but this may not work if your group is of a more sinister bent.

 

[Ryujin]

In my experience, doors do wonders for this. Put the room's door in the middle of the choke point then close it on the ranged characters, via a handy remote lever. They'll likely never do that again.

Of course also give the other characters an option to get back into the fight, like a hallway that leads halfway into the room along a wall.

Or you could just have them get flanked in the choke point. That way the squishies are unprotected, in the rear.

 

[Kinneus]

Do something to attract them into the room. That is, you need some carrot along with the stick. As previously mentioned, a monster that is blasting them from long range with serious damage is a stick that says, "move". Making such monsters with abilities or environment that makes them hard to hit at range, but easy to slaughter in melee is a big carrot.

Good suggestions so far, but I wanted to highlight this one. Suggestions so far have focused on negative reinforcement ("Punish the players for turtling up!"), but consider positive reinforcement as well. Add some terrain or a special zone that grants the players a boon that the monsters can't use. Two quick examples:

-The party moves into the cave, and undead rise from the ground. An altar to the Raven Queen on the far side of the cave lights up with holy light. Anyone who stands in the aura of the altar gets Something Good (a bonus to healing that surges provide, or a power bonus to defenses, or something). The undead gain no benefit from this zone. So does the party stand in the doorway to face the undead with no aid, or do they figure out how to be mobile enough to move across the battlefield and take advantage of the situation?
To increase the mobility of the combat, add two or three altars that "flicker" on and off every few rounds, forcing the party to move from one to the next.

-The party enters a room that is linked to the Elemental Chaos, and particularly linked to the element of wind. Arcane winds gush forth from a portal in the center of the room. Whenever the wind washes over a creature, they gain the phasing quality for a turn, and can shift 3 squares as a free action. Turtling up won't work; enemies can move right through them and flank them something nasty. Of course, the party can benefit from the same tactics... and the better learn how. Quick.

 

[domino]

What's good for the goose is good for the gander (and it's so easy to make gander into danger).

Think tactically yourself. If they're in a choke point with the melee guys holding position, depending on the area (in a hall or so) the ranged attackers behind have a narrow window in which they can hit people. But the melee guys up front are vulnerable to attack from a broader front, where the bad guys can attack with impunity from the stationary party members.

And so on.

 

[Ryujin]

Negative reinforcement is effective and immediate. It also mimics the behaviour of creatures who see a tactical mistake someone has made, then capitalize upon it. The positive reinforcement can be introduced later, if the party are of a mind to take advanatage of it, but they never will until they're pushed out of their comfortable little foxhole.

 

[jimmifett]

In heroic tier, Spiderlings! (MM3)
8-12 of these minions, focused in waves at the defenders at the choke point, and you just might simply take them down altogether. At 4th level for an even match, you're hitting 35% of the time against a paladin. Plenty of attempts through minion numbers, the poison vuln damage is going to stack up REAL fast, esp since it increases by 2 every hit. 6 or 7 hits on the paladin without healing, and he's on the floor.
Hit Dmg Total
1 2 2
2 7 9
3 9 18
4 11 29 (bloody)
5 13 42
6 15 57 (dying to dead)

Granted, the original spider will likely have been killed, removing the original vuln 5 poison at the end of it's next turn, but his minion buddies can keep that going. Regardless, after the 2nd or 3rd hit, your pally is going to be sweating it. Toss in the spider climb to scurry over thier heads and into the back ranks... mmmm, tasty squishies.

All this before you've even considered the other creatures in the room, hopefully poison themed as well.

 

[jimmifett]

Ooooh! And since they are small creatures, you can have half square tunnels AROUND the choke point that the spiderlings can go through, but other creatures would have to squeeze! Distract at the front lines to get some bursts with santa clause effect wasted to clear up 3-4 minions, while the rest sneak around the tunnels and charge attack from the rear. Have a brute or soldier run up to engage the pally to keep him in the choke point, and have a lurker slide/pull to uncork the choke point. Mix in a zone and maybe a swarm, and you have a party in retreat!

Fuhahahahahahaha!

 

[jimmifett]

Assuming 6 lvl 4 players...

spiderlings x 8
giant frog
sporeback frog
Myconid Colony Swarm
Myconid Guard

Can be won quickly if the right strategy is used, can be deadly if the right terrain and tactics is used.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

Duplicate post