Take, take, and take and never DM. What do players bring to a gaming group?

[Mishihari Lord]

As a DM, I get a lot of satisfaction when my players get excited about the game, get emotionally involved, play in-character in an entertaining manner, think hard about the game, and come up with clever plans. That's really all the contribution I want or need from them. It also helps a lot and makes my life easier if they provide detailed character backgrounds with information that helps me make good adventures and they're proactive about pursuing their goals.



Bugaboo''s friends network was just plain cool. He was my favorite poster ever, but I haven't seen him for ages. I wonder if he's still around?

 

[Emirikol]

Bingo. Came close to quitting gaming altogether last weekend because I was extremely frustrated with my group playing possum. Five guys sitting around staring at each other, looking confused. At the very least, they could have started by discussing what had happened and what they thought was happening in the game. That might have brought some ideas out in the open.

..just another reason to start every game session with a combat Make it work.

I usually briefly recap and start rolling dice. If you don't get the action rolling quickly, it can seem kind of blah..except for the gay old gnome writing poetry or something

jh

 

[Geoste]

Well without players you DMs would have no one to complain about.
In our games we not only buy the DM special drinks and food but we write journals and backstories give them plot hooks from these back grounds we picke up on their plot hooks.
We ask questions about the game world. And these questions helped the DM think of things he may not have thought of.
I have helped one of the DM by keeping track of initutive and when spell effects ran out.
Without players DMs may have made a fantastic world and they have cool ideas but who cares if there is on one else to appreciate the work the DM has done.

Dude, if I had players like you I would have absolutely NOTHING to complain about.

No, what we are talking here for the most part are those players who give us DMs blank stares when we provided the setup, the prep work, etc, and everything else... but then that dreaded blank stare thing.

UGH. It's happened to me.

Perhaps one day while you are behind the screen you may get The Stare. *shudder* Then you will know. As for your group, I don't think that would happen because you are a model player IMHO. You need to seek out new players to get The Stare.

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PS: actually, I hope you never get The Stare. It's kept me awake some nights.

 

[Geoste]

I hate players that give me crap for all the hard work I do. I dislike players that put all the expectations on me when they show up. I believe that players should put in some focus on their characters, and when I ask for a character background, typed if need be, and it could take maybe up to a half-hour to an hour of a person's time, I don't see the problem. Especially when I spend ten hours of prep time drawing maps, working on npcs, working on stat blocks, working on situation encounters for their characters so each character has some chance to shine in the spotlight in the adventure/session... after I do all that, the last thing I want to hear is a player whine about having to spend an extra half hour in character design by thinking of, and writing, a character background.

AAAAMMMMMMMEEEENNNNN Brother! Way to go! QFT!!

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[Emirikol]

Judging by the effort and $$$ DM's have to put in, I like the ideas that the other posters noted. Would it be wrong to REQUIRE those things of your players (just the same as requiring that every player bring their own PHB?) or should I just sit there and 'expect' players to contribute and be able to 'read my mind' (as elf witch notes)?

Here's how I'd balance it out (let me know if I'm off-base).

* I spend 2-5 hours prepping for each game session every other week.
** Players spend 20 minutes driving to my house and spend 10 minutes levelling their characters after a game.
***Players should be setting up the room and cleaning up afterwards.
***Players should be buying all the food and beer for the DM each session

* I have to purchase Dungeon magazine, DMG, Sandstorm, Frostburn, Monster Manuals (because I have a job and a life and no longer have time to create my own adventures).
** My players have to purchase a PHB and print out a character sheet.
*** Players should donate $10.00 each per year for dungeon subscription and any books I want to buy for the game.

* I have to create and modify adventures
** Players get to show up
*** Players should give the DM names of a few NPC's relevant to their characters past (with 3 sentences of backstory) of which the DM can pick and choose the ones he wants to include.

* I have to know all the rules
** The players get to argue the rules, because they "almost died."
*** Differen't players should be designated to know particular rules (especially grapple, overrun, disarm, etc.)
*** All players should know how to quickly lookup rules for the DM if there is a dispute

Others?

jh

..

 

[Chimera]

..just another reason to start every game session with a combat Make it work.

I run something more than a "Go to point A, Kill Monster B" game. There is an actual PLOT involved.

If that kind of game doesn't interest you, that's fine. But I'm no longer interested in running anything less. Any fool can string together a bunch of random encounters and a magic shop and call it a "Campaign".

 

[Emirikol]

I run something more than a "Go to point A, Kill Monster B" game. There is an actual PLOT involved. Any fool can string together a bunch of random encounters and a magic shop and call it a "Campaign".

Agreed, but players may not want to sit there staring at each other for the first 20 minutes attempting to recall a complex and elaborate plot from a month ago (which takes us back to...what do players bring to the game???)

It's even worse if only one person took any kind of notes (typical) and he's piecing together information to recite that you as a DM have to sit there and correct him on every game, it leaves your introduction disjointed at best.

Players, who typically bring nothing to the game other than their body's and character sheets oftentimes can't sit still. Combat forces people into the game immediately. Heck, it could be a skill check, but something that forces the players to take action seems to be a good transition into the otherworld.

jh

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I run something more than a "Go to point A, Kill Monster B" game. There is an actual PLOT involved.

If that kind of game doesn't interest you, that's fine. But I'm no longer interested in running anything less.

The problem, it seems to me, is that your players don't seem interested.

Any fool can string together a bunch of random encounters and a magic shop and call it a "Campaign".

Any fool can throw out a bunch of random details and a BBEG and call it "Plot" too. Let's steer away from the generalizations and snark, shall we? It can cut both ways.

 

[Chimera]

The problem.

Is that after all you've snarked at me over the years, one of us should probably put the other on Ignore.

 

[merelycompetent]

Yes, I think it would be wrong to require some of these things of players, as outlined below. Others I think are just good manners and/or good gaming practices.

Here's how I'd balance it out (let me know if I'm off-base).
* I spend 2-5 hours prepping for each game session every other week.
** Players spend 20 minutes driving to my house and spend 10 minutes levelling their characters after a game.
***Players should be setting up the room and cleaning up afterwards.
***Players should be buying all the food and beer for the DM each session

In my game, if the players I DM for don't help clean up the room afterwards, they're getting a little talking-to. If that doesn't fix it, they can go play somewhere else. This is spelled out for everyone when they join the gaming group. If I'm the player, you better believe I stay after and help clean up. If the host/DM looks like he/she could use an extra set of hands for setup, then I ask if it's okay if I show up about 15 minutes early -- and lend a hand if it's alright. Anything less is just rude. If I'm a player joining a group that doesn't do these things, I try to start a trend.

I, personally, won't go for buying the DM all the food and beer each session *UNLESS* the DM is a close personal friend (as in, adopted member of the family and has a standing invitation to eat with my family). I think I'd be uncomfortable with a frequent, regular attendance fee for a gaming group. Joining a gaming club and shelling out $10 a quarter - no problem. Bringing pretzels or chips & dip to share - no problem. Full meal plus beer for one person - problem. That's just me, tho. If it works for you, I certainly don't object. I deal with enough contractual obligations as it is - if my hobby starts doing that, I had better get some real value for my money. Is the DM who charges this fee giving me equivalent value for my time and money? That's a risky situation, to me.

* I have to purchase Dungeon magazine, DMG, Sandstorm, Frostburn, Monster Manuals (because I have a job and a life and no longer have time to create my own adventures).
** My players have to purchase a PHB and print out a character sheet.
*** Players should donate $10.00 each per year for dungeon subscription and any books I want to buy for the game.

Sure, so long as I have access to those subscriptions and books for the entire year, whenever I want them. If it becomes a contractual agreement, such as with a gaming club, then I expect to benefit from the cash outlay.

Charging money to play means that the situation can get *really* messed up when a disagreement arises. It turns a friendly get-together into a business transaction involving friendships and emotions -- a notoriously dangerous mix. I don't dispute that it works well for some groups. I'd be very leery of involving myself in this sort of thing unless it's with a well-run club or organization.

* I have to create and modify adventures
** Players get to show up
*** Players should give the DM names of a few NPC's relevant to their characters past (with 3 sentences of backstory) of which the DM can pick and choose the ones he wants to include.

I've done this in exchange for giving extra XP when I DM. I've also asked the DM if I can do it in exchange for bonus XP. I had one player who racked up enough XP to level because she created so many NPCs and their backstories - and I do mean *backstories*, to the tune of 6-7 pages each, all integrated with the homebrew campaign setting. Finally had to stop it because my notebook was getting full. I don't make it a requirement, though. It's a sure sign that a player is involved and trying when they do this.

* I have to know all the rules
** The players get to argue the rules, because they "almost died."
*** Differen't players should be designated to know particular rules (especially grapple, overrun, disarm, etc.)
*** All players should know how to quickly lookup rules for the DM if there is a dispute

The last two items I do. I've never really had to "order it be done," because I end up asking an otherwise unoccupied player with rules lookup duties while I resolve the current initiative iteration. Players have no choice but to become familiar with certain rules in my games . I haven't had a player say, "No, I won't do it!" yet. But if I do, I'm prepared to deal with it.

One of the best things I did as a DM was establish clear lines for rules disputes:

If a player disagrees with something the DM has done: A player gets 5 minutes, max, to argue his/her case, provided the issue passes at least one of these tests:
1. Is your character dead and unressurectable?
2. Is your character (broken/injured/destroyed) beyond any hope of recovery?
3. Has your character lost something integral to the character, or otherwise been rendered unplayable?

If the answer to all three questions is, "No," then it's not worth arguing over. If the player thinks the issue is important enough for further discussion, table it until after the game session is over.

I don't budge on this table rule. I have, when a player has shown me where I've made an incorrect rules decision, gone back and retconned the situation - for that character.

Sorry for the rambling - lack of sleep.