Take, take, and take and never DM. What do players bring to a gaming group?

[sniffles]

As a player who doesn't GM (tried it once, I'm just not cut out for it), I try to let the GM know I'm enjoying his game, primarily by showing up for it and being prepared, and paying attention. But I also try to tell my GMs sometimes that I had fun, so they won't feel taken for granted.

I also bring stuff. We all like props, so I've contributed props to the group kitty. I buy them minis. I give them index cards. I send them links and PDFs and make photocopies of useful materials. I'll paint minis for them if they want me to. I make up lists of names they can use for NPCs. I lend them character sheets of my retired PCs to use as NPCs. I run NPCs for them so they don't get overwhelmed. I offer ideas for settings and campaigns I'd like to play in (Okay, that one is probably more annoying than helpful ).

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

QFT.

However, it would be nice if everyone in the group would buy their own copy of at least the core player rulebook for each game we play. It'd sure shave a lot of time off of looking things up..

I just wish they would actually read the rules before they bitch at me about how the ruling I made sucks.

 

[Mercule]

I'm of two minds on it. Call it the "Chez DM" and the "McDM's" mindsets.

Henry, that's an excellent description. I usually call those two mindsets "serious" and "beer-and-pretzels", but I like your terms, too. Both types of games are fun (I'm running one of each, at the moment), but each has a different taste.

 

[Nightchilde-2]

I just wish they would actually read the rules before they bitch at me about how the ruling I made sucks.

Amen!

It's even worse when you know they have the books AND that they've read them and they still whine about the rulings when it's right there, in their book, in black and white.

Of course, I'm like the world's biggest rules lawyer, so it's probably a Good Thing (tm) that I GM almost exclusively.

 

[Mallus]

Call it the "Chez DM" and the "McDM's" mindsets.

I like that too.

I'm not sure I agree that "Chez DM" should be characterized by a lot of ad-hoc rulings, or house rules. I can see where you're going with this: an 'artisan DM' (note that ain't the same thing as 'artist) by my thinking, is going to put players in a wider variety of situations that a "McDm". The question is 'Will those situations fall outside the resolution mechanics as written?". I don't see why they'd have to, at least often. 3.5 is a nice combination of robust and abstract, I think it can model/handle a lot of situations satisfactorially. Its more a matter of creating that wide variety situations, and, of course, an interesting supporting cast to fill them out.

Think about the Bravo hit "Project Runway". Each designer has, more-or-less, the same stock of materials to work with. What matters most is the designers skill to work those materials.

(I am now hearing Tim Gunn say "Make it work" in my head. Thanks, Bravo...)

What I was objecting to in Firelance's post was the idea that removing the 'DM from game', which sounds to me like removing the specific creative input of the designer, makes for a better game. It certainly makes for a more similiar, more predictable game (the McDM), but I'm not sure why that's a worthwhile goal.

Then again, I run a campaign that's most distinctive, and successful component is best described as its tone. That should be clear if you've read any of the Story Hour. I realize that kind of game wouldn't work for everyone. But what kind of game does?

 

[Elf Witch]

I personally, don't think it is a problem if players don't DM.
I do think that players should actively engage in the game and make it fun.
And I think people should express their gratitude as often as they can... That's just what friends do. This requires nothing more than saying "Thanks." "Great Game." or any of a dozen similar comments. Specific feedback is even better, because it makes the game better.


Elf Witch: I am the martyr that Pendragon spoke of. I do not have the luxury of playing with my high school buddies. I don't have the luxury of playing with my college buddies. I don't have the luxury of playing with people I knew even 5 years ago. I moved for my job.

I have met new friends and have new buddies.
To meet new gamers you have to create a game.
To create a game, 99 times out of 100 you have to DM. That isn't martyrdom, that's reality. You can do something else, or play D&D as the DM.

I have certainly stopped DMing for several groups in those 5 years. It was not fun. Then I started new groups with new people until things clicked.

I have also played RPGA games and at Conventions. It is often a thankless job to DM, especially for the RPGA. I can't articulate why in a short post.
Non-RPGA Convention games I have had much more luck with and a much better experience with players. Maybe I've just been lucky there and unlucky with RPGA events.

Game ON!

That is not what I am talking about, you stopped running games that were not fun. If you had kept running those games even if you were not having fun then I would call you a martyr.

 

[Raven Crowking]

I have to admit, I have a good group of players. Like some others, I seldom get the chance to play, usually because people would rather play in my game. (Shrug) I haven't DMed through the entire summer because of other commitments, and no one picked up the baton.

When I decided to run the WLD, I did so only on the provision that all the players chipped in to pay for it. I might try getting Ptolus the same way.....

Back when I was in high school (early 80's), I had players who would pick up modules & materials because they wanted me to run them. When I was in the Army, I had players who would buy pizza. When I was in California, I had players who would host games, and for a while I even roomed with one of my players. When I first moved to Toronto, the first group I had was pretty thankful for the games I provided, and they even remembered my birthday. The group I have now has less disposable income overall, but still remembers my birthday & show appreciation in other ways...if only to tell me it was fun & what they were excited about (or not).

Overall, over many years, I haven't had very many players I'd complain about (and fewer that I would both have reason to complain about & kept around). The worst day gaming hasn't been better than the best day fishing, but the average day gaming has been far better than the Star Wars Prequels, so I guess I ought to be happy.

RC

 

[nyrfherdr]

That is not what I am talking about, you stopped running games that were not fun. If you had kept running those games even if you were not having fun then I would call you a martyr.

Thanks for the clarification. I have to say, though, that I didn't stop those games immediately. I waited until I was reasonably sure I had something else lined up... So there is an element of what you call martyrdom there.

It's true that I'd rather play in a poor game than no game at all... And that's especially tough if I'm the DM. I guess that makes me a martyr.

Game ON!

 

[ruleslawyer]

I was joking about the pity party line sorry I thought I had but on the smiley face.

Ah, I see. No problem!

I also did not say every DM is a control freak but I have played with some who just don't enjoy playing they have said so. It is a matter of control having it is to hard for them to let someone else run because they are not in charge of how things are going.

I used the term "control freak" with a bit of humor as well. Sorry that didn't come out properly.

My main point was that I've never had to push the DM-ing role on other people in my group. I thus have a hard time understanding this problem in general. nyrfherdr does seem to illustrate a situation in which a bunch of people find themselves; gaming tends to involve more strained relationships when people don't know each other, which only makes sense.

 

[Jorren]

A some people have already pointed out, there are many things you can do to reduce the workload of the DM. Of course the DM has to let the players do it.

In a previous campaign, I would do things like prep maps of local areas (the PCs local hangout pub, my own characters's home, etc.), bringing extra minis, draft rules summary sheets for the other players, stating out minor npcs, and so on. It can really work well if the DM actually brings the characters onboard in some of the aspects of campaign creation (non-spoiler material only as to not ruin any surprises). As a player, I enjoyed games much more when I had actually helped invest work in them as opposed to just running my character.

Players can bring much more to the table than many do now as long as they AND the DM are willing.