Taking 20

[krbrunn]

I was just wondering what skills everyone lets their players take 20 on. I don't think I see a specific list in the PH or the DMG, so I was hoping to get everyones take on this. Here are the ones I allow to have 20 taken on them:

Alchemy - Yes
Animal Empathy - Yes
Appraise - Yes
Balance - Yes
Craft - Yes
Disable Device - Yes
Disguise - Yes
Escape Artist - If actively opposed by someone or something holding you, then no. Otherwise yes.
Forgery - Yes
Intuit Direction - Yes
Knowledge - Yes, if you have access to books. Otherwise, no.
Open Lock - Yes
Ride - Yes
Search - Yes
Use Rope - Yes, as long as unapposed.

 

[AuraSeer]

Taking 20 represents trying a task over and over until you get it right. You can do this on any skill check that can be done repeatedly, as long as there's no penalty for failure. So it's not really determined by which skill, as by the circumstances under which it's being used.

Just by reading your list, I suspect that you haven't fully read the rules for taking 20. A few reasons why:

Alchemy and Craft skills can be used to create items. If you fail one of these checks, you lose the materials that have already been used. Therefore, you can't take 20.

The descriptions for Animal Empathy and Appraise specifically state that retries don't work. So you usually can't take 20 on either of these checks.

A Balance check keeps you on your feet; a Ride check keeps you on your horse. In either case, failure has a consequence: you fall. So taking 20 is not allowed.

I could go on, but do you see my point?

 

[Ketjak]

Definitely no take 20 on Disable Device

Definitely no take 20 option on Disable Device if that device is a trap.

 

[krbrunn]

I am quite the moron.

I don't know how I missed that little bit "carries no penalties for failure" when I reread that section tonight, but I did.

Anyways, thanks for the responses, and I shall now run away, tail in between legs.

 

[dcollins]

I'll also point out that Knowledge skills do not allow retries, and are therefore not eligible for the Take 20 option.

The allowing it with books-on-hand would definitely be a house rule. (Alternative: the WOTC Stronghold Builder's book details purchasing libraries which give +2 to +6 circumstance bonuses on Knowledge checks).

 

[bensei]

And to make the list even shorter:

Taking 20 requires some possibility for the character to judge how good his skill check was. This is not possible for Disguise, Forgery, etc.

The only way to test how good your disguise is (roughly), is to go to people that know you and try out if they recognise you. But this is certainly too complicated to just take 20.

Similar for Forgery or even Disable Device in some cases, e.g. if you want to manipulate a wagon wheel, such that it breaks after half an hour of rolling, but one does not see the manipulation immediately.

 

[bensei]

On the other hand I'm missing some skills on your list, e.g. could one very well justify to take 20 for listen and spot checks. Just think of someone trying to track down a certain animal, standing on top of a hill for quite a time and trying to hear if this animal is around (given the animal really makes these noises every once in a while). Same for spot.

 

[doktorstick]

What does "carries no penalties for failure" mean? Literally I understand. But what from the game mechanics?

For example, failure on Searching for the 100-ft. pit trap may result in you plunging into it. Failure to Handle Animal may cause it to run away. Failure to Disguise yourself may get you busted 10 hrs. from now at the Queen's ball. Failure to Intuit Direction may end you up in the Deadlands after a 1/2 days travel. Failure to identify that potion with Alchemy may result in you drinking acid. And the list goes on.

Most all skill checks carries a penalty for failure. Some may be immediate. Others may take hours or days for the failure to be noticed.

My biggest personal problem is Search. It is hit or miss. Either the DC is high enough that a Take 20 won't find it or the DC is low enough that a Take 20 will find it. Essentially, unless the party does not realize to look in a spot they will always find or never find a particular trap, item, or secret door.

/ds

 

[Umbran]

There are cases where one might allow Take 20 on Forgery and Disguise. Say the character has the original document on hand for comparison, and they are only making minor changes? Or the disguiser has a good likeness of the person, and a mirror? Having an item for comparison might allow the Take 20 benefit.

As to the "penalty for failure", I'm pretty sure they mean a direct penalty. Failing a Search, for example, does not have a direct penalty - you get to search from a distance, so the failure itself doesn't cause you to fall. Failure to identify a potion is similar - the separate action of drinking brings the calamity, not the failed identification itself.

This in contrast to failure on a Ride check, where it's the actual faiulre which causes you to fall off the horse.

 

[AuraSeer]

What does "carries no penalties for failure" mean? Literally I understand. But what from the game mechanics?

Mechanically, it means an immediate penalty, at the time of the check.

For instance, when using Search, a failed roll does not itself make you set off the trap. You might assume that the trap will go off immediately afterward, but the fall is not a direct consequence of the failed roll; it's a consequence of a character walking over the hidden pit, or whatever.

My biggest personal problem is Search. It is hit or miss. Either the DC is high enough that a Take 20 won't find it or the DC is low enough that a Take 20 will find it. Essentially, unless the party does not realize to look in a spot they will always find or never find a particular trap, item, or secret door.

This is only if they always take 20 on their checks. If you take 20, you use as much time as 20 regular checks. For Search, that means a 5' square takes 2 minutes, instead of one round. So the party could either search a whole large room quickly (rolling their checks), in the same time it would take to search a couple of squares thoroughly (taking 20).