D&D 5E Tasha's Group Patrons Preview

IGN has previewed the Group Patrons section of Tasha’s Guide to Everything.

IGN has previewed the Group Patrons section of Tasha’s Guide to Everything.
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Eis

Explorer
I just got an email update from Amazon last night saying that I should be receiving my pre-ordered copies on the 17th.

I would happily have bought them from my local FLGS... but I don't have an FLGS. I don't even have a bookstore within a 45 minute drive of me, damn BFE Central Pennsylvania. It takes an hour drive to State College to get to the nearest FLGS, and I don't have a car.
wow, I guess Altoona isn't any closer either, that sucks man
 

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Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero
Were that true, we wouldn't have so many editions. Just updates and patches. Like how an MMORPG works. New editions are always meant for new recruits, because in every instance of a new edition it was always rather sudden, it was never because the main customer base desired it. It was always to get "new blood" so to speak, for an influx of cash. Rinse, wash, repeat.
You can't patch a book, you can only replace it. And trying to do a partial update, as was done with 3E and 4E, is incredibly divisive and infuriates existing users, who feel compelled to get what they might view as a minor update (if they're happy with the system as is) or insufficient (if they want bigger changes).

The only way to substantially update an RPG is with a new edition.

And if you think corporations screw up roleplaying games, you really need to read the Art & Arcana history of D&D (you can get it from the library if you don't want to put money in Hasbro's pocket). TSR going out of business isn't the surprise -- it's that it managed to hang on as long as is did, as even from the beginning, they essentially were lighting piles of money on fire and were run based on the whim of the moment.

You don't have to like the current direction of D&D, but at least there's a clear plan now. And, based on the game's success in this edition, it seems to be a good one.
 

In this thread, we have ample proof that established/experienced GMs don't need the Patron section to have the group work under the direction of a regular employer, established in the setting, and get "perks" from being related to this power group. I agree with this general sentiment: it's a natural thing to imagine once the group is comfortable enough with the setting that their PCs will try to become part of an organisation, whether a trade guild, a wizard academy or a political power.

But I am not sure experience in creating campaigns and familiarity with a setting, both hallmarks of established GMs, are really needed to imagine that by oneself. In fact, the "newer players" or "yet to be recruited" groups are probably familiar with CRPGs and MMORPGs, so they are probably envisioning campaigns as a series of scenarios linked not by player initiative (that requires a human GM) but by the tasks provided by a quest giver, with "faction gain" as part of the recompense for doing the work. Reputation gain with a faction providing benefits aren't something new players should be introduced to, it's probably the way they envision a campaign structure in the first place, if they come from the much larger videogames player demographic. It is also a natural way for beginning DMs to motivate the players... While a first-time GM might struggle to imagine what will happen if the characters DECLINE the quest in the first gaming night, and decide to go carousing in a tavern instead (haven't we all feared that at some point), the natural, if heavy handed answer is "you're city guards, it's your F... JOB to go after the kobold caravan raiders!"... So basically, I feel the background of a group patron is the more natural choice and not something that would be introduced in a late book in the line. The beginning DM would probably only read the base books before running a game and not buy all the line at once, wouldn't he?

The mechanical part seems to be reduced to "coworkers can give advantage to each other once per long rest". Not something very imaginative not something that would make sense: if the PCs are self-employed, shouldn't they be even closer than if they all work for an overarching structure that could provide them with the same opportunities individually and not only as a group? As it's a small benefit, it's not something that's problematic but I don't think it will provide the "meat" of this book. I can see a section on patrons being interesting if they can flesh out some flavorful patron organizations that could inspire the creative juices of the DMs, but if it's the case, it's possible the page they decide to provide as a sneak peak probably wasn't the best. I think just having generic ideas of reasonable requests one could ask a specific type of patrons (for example, access to an advantage-providing on History check for an university...) isn't something the newer DMs would need. The exemple they allude to in the text (exception from certain law) can be interesting if they manage to provide flavorful examples, but is it possible in a setting agnostic book? I am pretty sure DMs with even 0 experience can imagine that "you're a city guard, therefore you're entitled ot bear arms within the city, like the nobility and unlike much of the locals" is a logical part of the job, not something they need a reminder of.
 

practicalm

Explorer
The nature of the character's relationship to the world around them has always been an area where DM had to make things work.
Does it cheapen the nature now there are mechanical reasons to do a thing. In some ways yes because it stops making sense as a part of the social aspect of the game and moves it into the game mechanics.

Medieval society didn't take to people who were not in some way connected to others. Every group had rights and obligations to other groups. When RPG players show up without any connections or obligations to society, is when you get murder hobos. Because they think they can just do anything without having any obligations. All rights and no responsibilities.

And what lord would allow people with this kind of power running around his domains who are not tied by obligations to society. It would break his own power. Mercenary companies were not loved when there was no need for there services.
I've always preferred that adventurers of a certain renown (level, power, etc) be forced to work for the crown or lord as part of a chartered guild or company to tie them to society.
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
The nature of the character's relationship to the world around them has always been an area where DM had to make things work.
Does it cheapen the nature now there are mechanical reasons to do a thing. In some ways yes because it stops making sense as a part of the social aspect of the game and moves it into the game mechanics.

Medieval society didn't take to people who were not in some way connected to others. Every group had rights and obligations to other groups. When RPG players show up without any connections or obligations to society, is when you get murder hobos. Because they think they can just do anything without having any obligations. All rights and no responsibilities.

And what lord would allow people with this kind of power running around his domains who are not tied by obligations to society. It would break his own power. Mercenary companies were not loved when there was no need for there services.
I've always preferred that adventurers of a certain renown (level, power, etc) be forced to work for the crown or lord as part of a chartered guild or company to tie them to society.

See.... but that still works.

All these mechanics tend to do is help you format the relationship with your PCs and the group. If you work for the Kingdom... you likely don't meet directly with the King. You have an intermediary. If you work for the King, you likely aren't going to get prosecuted for crimes committed in service of the king, unless you peeve him off or do something truly bad.

But, conversely, if you work for an arcane college, you likely have easier access to magical research and items, but no immunity from the law.

There are no hard mechanics in these rules, just some guideline ideas.
 



cbwjm

Seb-wejem
I am sooo stoked for Kingdoms and Warfare. I saw his Twitch stream for the warfare rules and they look so amazingly good. Not perfect, but easily modifiable to add in the features I would want, if he doesn't end up including them naturally
I'm really looking forward to them as well, hope it won't be too long before we hear they are off to the printers.
 



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