Teleportation as forced movement: off a cliff?

[Vaeron]

Eh. Forced teleports were probably a bad idea. I personally would probably allow it to move folks to unsafe spaces that a slide could move them to. And allow the same save a slide would allow.

Why? Because as I read it, a forced teleport is just a fancy slide.

How do you read it that way? Slide is movement through squares. A teleport completely bypasses those squares. They're two entirely different mechanics. If you try to teleport a dwarf, will you teleport him less spaces due to his racial abilities and any feats he might have to resist forced movement? NO - that would be ridiculous.

I'm constantly amazed how people can go out of their way to make straightforward rules all convoluted.

People can rule that for some unknown cosmic reason (otherwise known as DM fiat) you can't teleport enemies into dangerous squares, but these are house rules. No such limit exists in the PHB... and if a DM planned an encounter next to a 30 foot pit not realizing his Spellstorm Mage player could teleport all enemies in a burst 10? Whose fault is that?

 

[Gruns]

And when do they fall?

Ok, let's say your Eladrin PC does indeed get teleported over a cliff. When does he actually fall? Immediately after the teleport effect resolves? On the Eladrin's turn? At the beginning of the Eladrin's turn?
Basically, is there any time for the Eladrin to teleport back to safe ground before plunging to their doom? And suppose there's a Warlord with Knight's Move ahead of the Eladrin in the initiative order... This game is hard.
Later,
Gruns

 

[RigaMortus2]

Nevertheless, I'd add the "solid ground only" clause to all forced teleport powers.

So then you'd never be able to teleport yourself or someone else onto a pit trap, or an illusion of a solid structure, or liquid.

 

[the Jester]

In 1e, you had to teleport onto a solid surface; I have always retained this as a house rule. I'll probably continue to do so in 4e.

Note that this means that flying battles don't include rapid 'porting all around the 'sky battlefield'.

 

[Kord's Boon]

I'm constantly amazed how people can go out of their way to make straightforward rules all convoluted.

People can rule that for some unknown cosmic reason (otherwise known as DM fiat) you can't teleport enemies into dangerous squares, but these are house rules. No such limit exists in the PHB... and if a DM planned an encounter next to a 30 foot pit not realizing his Spellstorm Mage player could teleport all enemies in a burst 10? Whose fault is that?

The reason people go out of their way to make this kind of action more difficult is because it’s unfair.

As it stands, if you attempt to push, pull, or slide enemies into harmful/hindering terrain they receive a saving throw, an additional level of protection above and beyond what they get when moved elsewhere. Why is it not reasonable then to allow the target of a baneful teleport a saving throw to resist it through force of will? You have no justification for the normal movement save that can’t also be applied to the teleport save.

Ultimately the save function is necessary as the baneful teleport feature was at best and unintended oversight, and at worst stupid (and therefore should be ignored).

“Whose fault is that?” WoTC, and the player for exploiting this idiotic runaround (assuming intent) on an otherwise fine sub-system.

 

[Ibixat]

I'm constantly amazed how people can go out of their way to make straightforward rules all convoluted.

People can rule that for some unknown cosmic reason (otherwise known as DM fiat) you can't teleport enemies into dangerous squares, but these are house rules. No such limit exists in the PHB... and if a DM planned an encounter next to a 30 foot pit not realizing his Spellstorm Mage player could teleport all enemies in a burst 10? Whose fault is that?

Well, here is the deal.

You exploit it like crazy and I'll let you do it once to let you see how silly it is, twice to reinforce that, and a third time to see if you are just that cheesy. If you did it all 3 times I then will plan an encounter next to a active volcano, and the creatures you fight will teleport you into the air, about 50 feet above the lava, so you fall, die from either the falling or the burning trying to get out. This will be every fight till you stop trying to do it yourself.

All hail DM fiat and the phrase, Turnabout is fair play.

 

[eamon]

To me, it's also about realism. If an ability is so dangerous, why aren't there tons of items on the market to abuse it? Why would anyone ever risk leaving home without some teleport-counter? At the very least everyone would want some way of safely descending or somehow controlling the teleport location. If that's not possible, you should notice that creatures in general are absolutely loth to fight near any kind of dangerous terrain. Battles would revolve around managing dangerous teleport-traps and every party should have a means (and preferabbly as many as possible) to teleport enemies.

That's a world you can imagine, but if that's not world you want to play in, then the presumption that you can teleport things into empty space can't hold. It's simply inconsistent to imagine that teleport is so terribly lethal in certain situations but that somehow the entire world is ignorant thereof. So, you can't have it both ways: either it's dangerous, but then you need to work out the consequences, or you need to presume it's not so dangerous.

 

[Thaumaturge]

Well, it appears there has been a resolution to this. In the Design and Development Seminar article, we get this:

Q: Will there be an update for forced teleportation off cliffs, etc.?

A: Yes, forced teleportation will function as other forced movement (providing a saving throw before teleporting a creature off that cliff).

So, there you go.

Thaumaturge.

 

[Samir]

Well, it appears there has been a resolution to this. In the Design and Development Seminar article, we get this:



So, there you go.

Thaumaturge.

Cool, thanks for the update.

 

[teachamath]

What if the effect is not a forced teleport but is a dismissal spell (level 9 cleric)? I have wondered about this technique for riding foes. If I dismiss and send the flying creature to another plane of reality, would the rider immediately fall to the ground since he is not riding anything? Is dismissal truly a teleport?