Teleportation as forced movement: off a cliff?

[CableRouter]

I agree that they should be, and wish I knew why the designers didn't think of a way to merge the two systems.

The reason they didn't bother was it wasn't an issue at first. There are very few teleport opponent powers in PHB1 and the main offenders don't really kick in until Epic. Warlock Star pact at lv 9 and Feytouched PP at 11 only affect a single target. Wizard Spellstorm Mage ED at 20, Wizard 25 are the ones that hit multiple foes. Given what I've seen of Epic Destinies and top level powers, it appears to me that Epic Level play wasn't sufficiently playtested.

Maelstrom of Chaos is awesome if vertical teleports are allowed; Burst 10, Enemies Only, 3d8 + 5d10 + Knock Prone.

Elemental Maw; Burst 2 damage becomes 9d6 + 10d10 + Knock Prone + Int Mod (again). And the teleport square stays active until the end of your next turn, giving everyone in your party chances to push, pull and slide opponents right back into it. Even better if the Wizard goes first in one round and delays until the end of the next round so the whole party has two rounds to shove monsters into it. For extra fun, have a tactical Warlord fire off Own the Battlefield and slide every enemy within the Warlord's Int Mod squares of the Maw into it for 3d6 + 10d10 + Knock Prone + Wizard's Int Mod damage with no attack roll or saving throw.

 

[Derulbaskul]

Well, it appears there has been a resolution to this. In the Design and Development Seminar article, we get this:

So, there you go.

Thaumaturge.

The designers clearly realised the risks when they were writing up the portal drake for Draconomicon because they included the option of a saving throw as a recommendation even if the effect would leave the character out of reach of an appropriate edge to grab on to.

 

[1darklord]

Would the saving throw be to prevent the teleport all together or just to grab hold of the edge of the cliff etc and be knocked prone?

Daniel.

 

[Ryujin]

Ok, let's say your Eladrin PC does indeed get teleported over a cliff. When does he actually fall? Immediately after the teleport effect resolves? On the Eladrin's turn? At the beginning of the Eladrin's turn?
Basically, is there any time for the Eladrin to teleport back to safe ground before plunging to their doom? And suppose there's a Warlord with Knight's Move ahead of the Eladrin in the initiative order... This game is hard.
Later,
Gruns

I'll preface this by saying that in our campaigns we have all determined that teleport attacks are just another form of forced movement, for which a save can be used to keep from being forced into hazardous territory.

The Eladrin is teleported off a cliff. He immediately falls. There is no time for him to teleport back......... unless he has the racial feat that allows him to use his Fey Step to counter forced movement. That permits him to react immediately, spend his racial encounter ability, and thereby not be moved by the teleport attack.

 

[Brys]

Would the saving throw be to prevent the teleport all together or just to grab hold of the edge of the cliff etc and be knocked prone?

Daniel.

For the Portal Drake, they get a savings throw to grab hold of the edge. But it also says that even if the drake *can* teleport them to a square without an edge within reach, "...it might be better to pick a square that does, thus creating the possibility for a literal cliffhanger!"

 

[lukelightning]

I'm considering making a houserule that you can save vs. teleportation, and if you do, you are dazed; so it's a worse penalty than for the standard push/pull/slide.

 

[N0Man]

The group I've been in has just been using a rule in Falling for this. Specifically "Catching Yourself".

When a player tries to teleport a creature into mid-air or over a pit, the creature can immediately make a saving throw to avoid the teleport. If the creature makes a successful saving throw, he falls prone in the square he was in and doesn't teleport. Makes it so that the trick of teleporting a creature into mid-air for extra damage comes at a cost. Do you take the chance for extra damage at the risk of not moving the enemy when the odds are against you, as the creature has a 55% chance of making their save? How about against an elite who has 65% chance of making that save, or a Solo who has 80% chance?

"Catching Yourself" from the Falling list can apply to Teleportation, if you can describe the region between teleporting from the ground to mid-air as an artifical precipice created magically. Catching Yourself doesn't activate specifically from Forced Movement, but rather a power or a bull rush forces you over a precipice or a pit.

Actually, I find this to be the first reasonable suggestion I've seen regarding this.

I strongly dislike cheesing teleport to make it more powerful than it was obviously intended. Vertical teleporting alone frequently doubles damage.

As much as I disliked the use of forced teleportation for something that was blatantly exploiting the mechanics, I also didn't like banning it completely for this, since it unfairly penalizes magical forced movement compared to martial forced movement (which can slide someone off a cliff, with a saving throw).

I considered saying teleportation off a cliff would be limited to 1 square from the edge, but that seems artificial.

I think the above approach is a great compromise. If it's a 55% chance of doing nothing and a 45% chance of doubling damage, then it evens out.

Though it does seem odd you can only save if they are teleporting you somewhere weird...

 

[jaelis]

Even better if the Wizard goes first in one round and delays until the end of the next round so the whole party has two rounds to shove monsters into it.

That doesn't work BTW. When you delay, beneficial effects end immediately.

 

[-Avalon-]

Ok, but how would you DM-types rule this one:

My party was set to take out these towers that are controlled by the Dragon-Throne. At the top of each tower is a portal to each other tower's portals. We are now 24th level, and I am playing an avenger.

The cleric, who knew the code for that portal through his personal means, opened up a portal linked to the one at the top of the Forest Tower. To our surprise, there was no forbiddance against it, so we knew they were expecting us. We only had 3 rds of portal, so we went through.

On other side were astral stalkers and a great big green dragon (named Cyan Bloodbane for informational purposes), we of course were pretty much ambushed (not by surprise round, but by them going way higher on Init)

I noticed I went right before the cleric almost instantly and kinda farted around the first round. Because of where I was located though, Cyan pushed me through the portal with his dragon-ly abilities. The rogue promptly knocked the big dragon in the head, stunning it until his next round. I noticed that this would be AFTER the portal shut, so I ran back through and crimson strided Cyan.

Crimson stride teleports me 5 squares, I then attack an adj enemy, port 5 more squares, and port the enemy I hit to a square adj to me. So, I ported to the dragon, popped him decently, ported 5 squares back to the edge of the portal, and through the magic of portals the square adjacent to me is 10K miles away yet still adj, I ported Cyan to that square. Cyan didn't wake up in time for the portal, it shut with him still stunned.

How would you rule this? possible? Impossible? Saves? anything?

 

[Mort_Q]

How would you rule this?

• Cyan knows how to re-open the portal, or
• You've made a powerful enemy very angry, and despite not being able to get to you now, he has powerful friends, and when you least expect it...