Tell me why I'm wrong about grappling. Please.

[dcollins]

I've always played that the grapple check in step 3 is at the same AB as the touch attack in step 2. Otherwise you could never successfully grapple unless you had iterative attacks.

I completely agree. I was addressing the part where the original poster was reducing the Touch rolls, but not the Hold rolls.

 

[DanMcS]

Step 4 is not at the player's option. The only way to avoid moving into the opponent's space is for it to be impossible for some reason (you're webbed/entangled in place or something).

 

[Enkhidu]

OK so far we've got the two positions that I expected (and indeed used myself before posting): BAB reduces for the purposes of the hold (something that I agree with, but that my DM does not - this is partially an exercise to show why it needs to reduce), and that Step for is not an option.

Its the step 4 part that I've got my issues with:

"To maintain the grapple for later rounds, you must move into the target’s space."

To me this implies that the moving into a target's space is optional, as it is a condition placed on the maintnence of the grapple. Has this been addressed in errata/FAQ/Sage?

 

[reveal]

From the FAQ:

If a creature with reach, such as an assassin vine, grapples you, it then pulls you into its space. Does this move happen all at once or is there a limit to how far you are pulled in a round?

When an attacker grapples, the attacker must move into the defender’s space, not the other way around. If you can reach a foe and you establish a hold, you move into the foe’s space as part of the grapple attack; this movement is free and doesn’t count against your movement for the turn (see Starting a Grapple in Chapter 8 of the Player’s Handbook).

A monster with the Improved Grab special attack, such as an assassin vine, pulls the foe into its own space rather than moving into the foe’s space (see the Improved Grab entry in the
Monster Manual glossary). This is also part of the attack and does not count as part of the attacker’s or defender’s movement.

(Emphasis Added)

 

[Pinotage]

I think part of the confusion probably arises from the 'step' approach to explaining the grapple process, which in the past has had a lot of people confused. If you think about it physically, you can't really grapple and cause damage without moving into the opponent's space. Sure, you can grab them, but to do the damage I'd argue you had to move into their space. To me it makes more sense that way. Otherwise, if you just grab and then release, how are you actually damaging them?

Pinotage

 

[werk]

Improved Grapple Feat - grants +4 on grapple checks.

Pinotage

A-Ha! Knew I missed something.

Thanks all for the clarification.

 

[Belbarid]

Also, it will become much harder to inflict damages by grapple when opponent has Close Quarter Fighting feat (from CW) or when your opponent is a larger monster.

Close-Quarters Fighting allows the AoO, even if your opponant has Improved Grapple, correct?

 

[darthkilmor]

OK so far we've got the two positions that I expected (and indeed used myself before posting): BAB reduces for the purposes of the hold (something that I agree with, but that my DM does not - this is partially an exercise to show why it needs to reduce), and that Step for is not an option.

Your DM is wrong, and since that puts You at a disadvantage I'm surprised he'd be arguing it.
note also the SRD says:

If You’re Grappling

When you are grappling (regardless of who started the grapple), you can perform any of the following actions. Some of these actions take the place of an attack (rather than being a standard action or a move action). If your base attack bonus allows you multiple attacks, you can attempt one of these actions in place of each of your attacks, but at successively lower base attack bonuses.

 

[Stalker0]

Close-Quarters Fighting allows the AoO, even if your opponant has Improved Grapple, correct?

Yes, but the damage you deal does not automatically negate the grapple in this case. Instead, you add the damage you deal to your grapple check.

Frankly, I consider this a must have feat for fighters of mid levels or so, at that point everything you fight is large or larger practically and they all seem to grapple

 

[Liquidsabre]

Frankly, I consider this a must have feat for fighters of mid levels or so, at that point everything you fight is large or larger practically and they all seem to grapple

Here here! I never play a fighter of level 6th+ without this feat. If you spend all this effort to be a fighter-type and your heavy damage dealing capacity is suddenly negated by a silly grapple, you betcha I'm going to try and avoid that!