Tell Me Your "DM + DM's Girlfriend" Horror Story

The last time I talked to her about it (before the epic meltdown of the last gaming session), she said that she didn't feel included. They don't ask for her input or opinion, she said, and they never go for any of her ideas. This is true, but I think it has more to do with playstyle than anything else. She always makes suggestions for peaceful courses of action (she prefers social skill interaction and skill challenges to solve problems, loves deep roleplay, and considers combat to be dull.) But she usually gets overruled or dismissed by the rest of the table (the other players prefer direct combat as a solution to most problems, and think social interaction and skill challenges are dull.) So while she is trying to sweet-talk the guards into letting the group pass through the city gates, everyone else ignores her and storms the gates. (Actually happened.)

Why do I picture Sarah in Knights of the Dinner Table?

I like a nice blend of the two, but getting these two play styles to coexist peacefully at the same table has suddenly become very difficult. I've been playing 3.X for more than 12 years now, and I've never had this problem...usually the players are all on the same page here.

I guess I need to have a talk with each player privately about this issue. I don't want to play a total-immersion, story-based RPG with barely any dice...nor do I want to play a nonstop dice-rolling combat simulator either. Maybe I can encourage everyone to push their comfort boundaries a bit and mix it up a little more, so that everyone feels a little more welcome.

I think the problem is that she is the "odd man out". She wants more story-based, social skills, skill challenge play. The rest of the table, it seems, does not. And their playstyle has been "the game" for how many years? In my games, there is more of a balance, but in my games storming the city gates is likely to be fatal - a small band of adventurers isn't powerful enough to take on a city, or a castle, and many problems cannot be solved by combat.

If you're going to insist that the game you and your players have enjoyed for years change markely to accommodate her playstyle, I expect you will be accused of favortism. I'd also think that may be fair - would you be arguing for similar changes to the group playstyle if the new player were not your girlfriend? Or would you suggest this new player with a very different playstyle, and a very different expectation for the game itself, might be better off finding a more compatible gaming group? It also sounds like you'd like a more balanced game, so maybe that means you both need a new group. Or maybe you nee a group with a more balanced playstyle where you can game together, and this combat-centric group remains the "boys night out" group.
 

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My wife lays, and I can think of two other couples we've gamed with over the years, but none have created any real issues. Although I think she and I are the only ones who've GM'd. It's important that people be able to separate "player" from "character", and "game" from "reality". My character may not like her character, just as he may not like any other character at the table. The Goblins want all the PC's dead, and have no soft spot for any given PC. By the same token, I'm not out to kill any of the characters, whoever the player may be.
 

I have one that's sort of the reverse.

A local DM I know hosts a game. I pity the pretty girls who play there. They seldom stay long,particularly if they play female characters.

He likes them, but doesn't know how to express it. It comes out in play as clumsy come ons, and then when they fall flat he has some powerful NPC abuse their characters. I'd go into detail, but we have rules on this forum against that sort of topic.

I don't know what goes through his head. I'm not even sure how aware of this pattern he is.
 


This does seem like a basic clash of playstyles. A group that has been together for that long and used to playing in a certain way isn't likely to change the way they play for any newcomer. Its always tough when gaming styles clash and especially difficult when a SO is involved.

In defense of the wife, it sucks to be part of a group that ignores your contributions and preferences.

In defense of the old guard it sucks to have an established way of doing things suddenly upset by a newb that won't get with the program.

A group meeting apart from the session where everyone can speak honestly and openly about what they want out of the game needs to happen. Its possible that group harmony might never be achieved but at least everyone would get a chance to be heard. Perhaps rotating campaigns are the answer. Have two games running, one of them can be more combat focused and the other one can be largely about political intrigue. If everyone can agree to get on the same page for both games you have pure win.
 

It wasn't during a roleplaying game but occassionally when we played Diplomacy in college one of my GMs would invite his girlfriend to play. Inevitably they would create an impenetrable alliance that would restrict your options for any sort of diplomacy and often they would steamroll over at least one player. The worst part is that we never got through an entire game, so they were never forced to face against each other. Ooooo, man--that irked me! (I can't recollect why the rest of the group never banded together to take them out when they did this. More than likely we were either paralyzed by the fear of being backstabbed or we actually were backstabbed when we tried it.)
 

To be honest it sounds like the wrong group for her. And probably the wrong game. You've a table of gamers, focussed on the step on up style of play, and one basically freeform improver who wants something a lot more character driven.
I think the problem is that she is the "odd man out". She wants more story-based, social skills, skill challenge play. The rest of the table, it seems, does not. And their playstyle has been "the game" for how many years? In my games, there is more of a balance, but in my games storming the city gates is likely to be fatal - a small band of adventurers isn't powerful enough to take on a city, or a castle, and many problems cannot be solved by combat.

If you're going to insist that the game you and your players have enjoyed for years change markely to accommodate her playstyle, I expect you will be accused of favortism. I'd also think that may be fair - would you be arguing for similar changes to the group playstyle if the new player were not your girlfriend?
This does seem like a basic clash of playstyles. A group that has been together for that long and used to playing in a certain way isn't likely to change the way they play for any newcomer. Its always tough when gaming styles clash and especially difficult when a SO is involved.

In defense of the wife, it sucks to be part of a group that ignores your contributions and preferences.

In defense of the old guard it sucks to have an established way of doing things suddenly upset by a newb that won't get with the program.
I think I need to clarify a few things.

First of all, my girlfriend is not a "newb." She has played D&D for nearly 20 years, having started with AD&D back when she was in high school. Like me, she has been both a DM and a player. The ones who are newest to the hobby are two of the other guys at the table; they had only played 3.0E back when it first came out in 2000. Even so, we have all been playing D&D off and on for at least a decade.

Second, she is not a "newcomer" to this particular group either. We all started this campaign at the same time, when a group of friends were chatting at a party, discovered that we all enjoy playing D&D, and asked me to be the DM. They all rolled up Lv. 1 characters at the same time, and went through the first intro adventure together. That was back in October of 2011. Everything was going fine up until a few months ago.

Not all of our girlfriends are newcomers to this hobby.

Lastly, there is no confusion about whether or not we are playing the "wrong game." D&D is nothing if not flexible, and I have seen it played in many different styles through the years. The way we play D&D does not require us to choose deep roleplay over powerplay, or vice versa.

-----

I did what I said I would do; I spoke with them all privately before the next gaming session. I asked them what they thought had happened in the group over the last few months that might cause this rift, and what they think should be done to make it better. Here is what I learned.

I had a really good chat with the first guy, over lunch (we work together). We talked at length about the game, wondering aloud about what had happened and what could be done better. He noticed the shift in playstyle too, and that he thought it had more to do with their characters' levels. Back when they were all low-level characters, combat was a lot more risky and limited, so they had to resort to skill challenges in order to survive. But now, they are all 12th and 13th level, and death is more of an annoyance thanks to Raise Dead and other effects. They also have a lot more combat options, too: new weapons, new abilities, new spells, and so on, that they are just itching to try out. Skill challenges, he said, feel like a waste of time now that there is "cooler stuff" that they could be doing. As for making it better, he got really uncomfortable and changed the subject.

The second guy I spoke to was a live wire...he seemed like he had been waiting for this opportunity. He blamed me for the rift, saying that the difficulty level of their skill challenges is not proportionate to the difficulty level of combat. (A CR 10 trap, he said, is a major challenge that could wipe out the party...but a CR 10 monster is a pushover...they don't want to do skill challenges anymore because they are too hard.) He suggested I curb the difficulty of the skill challenges drastically, or just handwave them. "Every character in the group is built for combat, not skill challenges," he said, "or didn't you notice?" He went on to complain about other stuff, like save-or-die spells or the confirmation roll for critical threats, but in all honesty I could barely listen to him after that "didn't you notice" comment. It was all I could do to remain polite.

The third and fourth guys didn't have anything to say at all. They said they didn't notice anything very different about the gaming sessions in recent months, and they each thought that the argument at the last gaming session was not that big of a deal, or that it was blown out of proportion. (The third one didn't remember an argument at the last gaming session at all.) I know that these fellas don't like confrontation, so I didn't pry. I got the feeling they just wanted to put this whole mess behind them, and get back to playing.

My girlfriend expressed fatigue more than anything else. "I'm so tired of you having to fix this stuff," she said with a smile. "Doesn't it get exhausting?" She blamed herself for the whole mess, but wouldn't elaborate. As for making it better, she said that it wouldn't get better until she left the group, so she would drop out. I tried to talk her into just taking a couple of gaming sessions off instead of quitting the group outright, but she didn't go for it. She gave me her character sheet and asked me to make her paladin an NPC. She said she might start an AD&D Ravenloft group of her own in a few weeks.

-----

Tonight's gaming session was rough...it was clear that there were still a lot of hurt feelings at the table, on both sides of the DM screen. But not much else has changed, I'm afraid. Instead of getting off-handed comments about my girlfriend, bias, and favoritism, I get off-handed comments about martyrs, retribution, and vengeance. I'm sure they were just trying to be funny, but I wasn't quite ready to laugh about this yet. So I smiled and joshed and tried to make light of the situation, but my girlfriend was right: it is getting exhausting. I hope this phase passes quickly.
 
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Sounds like guy #2 is your problem/ring-leader/instigator. Basically sounds like, "I don't wanna do skill challenges and she keeps trying to and you keep making us!" So, it's everyone else (or rather anyone they can't bowl over/subjugate like your non-confrontational #'s 3 & 4) but them causing the problems. Seen it at tables a thousand times.

Shame your girlfriend opted out. But if she can get a group together for something she'll be happy/have fun doing, then that is always preferable to hard feelings at a table...I think anyway.
 

The worst that I've ever seen was when the girlfriend of the dm got pissed off at one of the players over nothing and declared, "You can't play in our game anymore!"

Listen up, little birdie, it ain't "OUR" game, it's "THE DM'S" game, and that's not your call to make.

And yet it stuck. :( DM/boyfriend would always knuckle under to her, even when he was complaining about the same exact thing behind her back. Aargh! If you're going to complain, don't put up with it! If you're going to put up with it meekly and never take steps to solve the problem, don't complain to me!
 

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