Telling others how to roleplay

[Luddite]

The key question is "Is there a difference between the Player and the Character?"

In one of my recent campaigns, I had the cleric of a War god in the party. He would much rather use his spells to quickly vanquish the enemy then to heal the party. However, the player made this clear that it was a character trait. And the other players accepted it. The Cleric still helped the party, but was not the going to be the "mobile first aid kit."

So does the cleric still assit the party, or is he completely dead weight. He may be selfish and stingy with his spells, but did he let anyone die that he could of saved?

-The Luddite

 

[Hjorimir]

If it is the characters (i.e. not the players) requesting healing in no way is he being told how to role-play. That being said...

...everybody shows up to a game for one reason...to have fun. If he doesn't want to heal with his cleric he doesn't have to (though I think his choice of the Healing Domain was a poor one in that event).

A few months back one of my players complained of a lack of healing. I told them to make a cleric. They didn't want to. /shrug

Bottom line is let it be worked out in character. Maybe the majority of the group will decide they don't like this snobby priest and drop him off at the nearest church (and try to recruit somebody more like minded).

Not to change the topic, buf have any of you noticed a tendancy for players to play clerics only for their spell power while failing to really role-play a religious character? I usually see lip-service worship out of clerics and paladins at best.

 

[Aaron L]

The rest of the group should eject the cleric from the party. If the player of the cleric says anything tell him not to interfere with their roleplaying.

 

[BSF]

Not to change the topic, buf have any of you noticed a tendancy for players to play clerics only for their spell power while failing to really role-play a religious character? I usually see lip-service worship out of clerics and paladins at best.

Alas, this does seem all too common. I have started trying to work very closely with my players in terms of the Divine. One player wanted to pick up some tasty new spells and asked if his local high priest knew them. I glanced over them and told him that he probably did. The player then asked if his character could learn them. I told him he would have to roleplay it out. Initially, the player didn't understand (my bad) but when he finally asked the high priest, he was told that the high priest didn't have time to waste on someone that wasn't involved in church affairs. The high priest then went on to devote a bunch of time helping out the party's paladin.

The player was interested in why the high priest would help the paladin, but not the cleric. So, we discussed it that night after the session was done.

Cleric
- over the course of the campaign had spent one day attending a service.
- spent no time helping the congregation.
- had never bothered to seek out a quest to help the church

Paladin
- every time the party was in town would offer his assistance with the church in any way that he could.
- would offer to escort lower level priests to other towns to protect them if needed.
- In short, the paladin was always available if the church needed him.

It is worth noting that at the time the player requested the spells, his character was the 2nd highest level cleric in the region.

The player understood once he looked at it from the perspective of the NPC and he became a lot more involved with the church.

Back to the thread topic: Reading back over the original post, it sounds like there are in-character requests being made, but there are out-of-character complaints about how the in-character requests are handled. The one thing that bothers me about all of this is that the Cleric has the Healing Domain and is refusing to heal. Admittedly, you shouldn't have to acquiese to every healing request just because you have the Healing domain, but wouldn't somebody with the Healing domain have a bit more compassion?

Admittedly, you could play it up so that the other characters had to listen to you witness to them about the wondreful healing powers of your god each time. If you are constantly healing, it would seem reasonable that these adventurers should revere your god to some degree. It might even be reasonable to start witholding some healing if the characters don't start revering your god. Maybe save it for people that will be more grateful? A bit harsh, but you are a cleric and you might be trying to win converts...

 

[Sir Whiskers]

In one situation I've seen, one of the players has a dead set way on how he wants to play his character and when the rest of the party doesn't like his actions, he always falls back on, "Don't tell me how to play my character."

At this point, the party doesn't want to travel with this character.

How do you help people see that sometimes compromise is a good thing.

In one instance, an injured party member asked for help. The character in question is a cleric with the healing domain. "Your not injured enough."

In another instance, an injured party member asked for help. The cleric took it as a demand and walked away from him.

In another instance, he cast a Concecrate Spell. The rest of the party decided they were moving on. He stayed behind.

In each case he feels that anyone telling him what to do is effecting his roleplaying.

To that I counter. I say that role playing is important, but what is more important is the acknowledgement that this is a group activity and that if you're always at odds with the group, either your character needs to adapt, you need to make a new character, or you need to start playing Neverwinter Nights.

Comments?

With respect to those who feel this should be solved in character, this is a player issue. We play the game to have fun. I've yet to really enjoy a session when one or more players are intent on "roleplaying" in a disruptive manner, however compelling their concept.

In this case, the player is being selfish by playing his character in the way he is. He is sending a clear message to the other players that he doesn't care about their characters, only his own. Using roleplaying and character concept as excuses to not be a team player is absurd. There is a fine line between interesting party dynamics and disruption - I admit I'm making assumptions here, but this player's behavior is far too similar to disruptive behavior I've experienced too often in the past.

If, as I suggest, it's a player issue, then the GM must step in. First, set ground rules for character creation: characters must have a reason to cooperate with each other. This in no way means the characters have no personality, but it does mean the game comes before any one character. Then allow the player the option to (in character) quickly modify his character's behavior. If he refuses, allow the other characters vote him "off the island". He can then create a new character, one who will work with the party.

While this may seem harsh, I can't help thinking of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers situation with Keyshawn Johnson. Though he is a good receiver, he was a disruption to the rest of the team. The coach decided the team would be better without him, and he was right. It's up to your player whether or not he wants to be another Keyshawn.

The goal of the game is for the entire group to have fun. Roleplaying individual characters is just a means to this end, not the end itself.

 

[Kichwas]

One player wanted to pick up some tasty new spells and asked if his local high priest knew them.

Don't clerics automatically know all the spells in the cleric list? They don't learn them, they get them granted from the divine via prayers and other rituals.

 

[el-remmen]

Don't clerics automatically know all the spells in the cleric list? They don't learn them, they get them granted from the divine via prayers and other rituals.

Some DMs require cleric-type characters to seek out any divine spells from other sources aside from the core books.

 

[Silveras]

Don't clerics automatically know all the spells in the cleric list? They don't learn them, they get them granted from the divine via prayers and other rituals.

Not to sidetrack, but the Core rules allow for Clerics to do spell research, too. I look at it this way: the PH spell lists are the spells everyone knows about. Wizards and Sorcerers know about all these spells, and can ask for scrolls of them by name, etc. Clerics are in the same position when renewing their spells: they know about all the PH spells, and can ask their divine patron for them by name. New spells (or old "lost" spells) have to be researched before you know how to ask for them.

On Topic:
Sometimes, having the character wake up alone in the inn is what it takes to make the point that the other PCs don't like his actions.

 

[Mistwell]

I again contend this is The Party Healer problem.

An easy way to find out is to alter the rules slightly for a few sessions and see how things play out. I would either a) Remove the spontaneous casting power, or b) only allow healing on yourself, and not another. When characters no longer have the justification of saying "you can always heal me until your spells run out", I suspect everyone will have more fun.

You could also allow Arcane spellcasters to prepare healing spells for a little while, and see if they do it. I bet you they will be suddenly just as greedy with those spells, and probably won't prepare them as often as they expect the cleric to cast them.

I suppose a third option is to stick a bunch of healing potions on the Fighter character, and see just how many offensive actions the fighter gives up in exchange for moving to and healing an injured party member.

Really, I do think this is a role playing issue, rather than a player issue. It's more difficult to give up your actions to heal someone, and to give up your finite spell slots to do so, than most people think.

If, in real life, you had the ability to heal a finite number of times per day, or attack someone with a ranged spell with that power or enhance your defenses (but not more than one of those for that finite spell slot), and you knew you were going to place yourself in immediate danger for that entire day, you might think twice about using that ability at the expense of a) not being able to use it on yourself later, and b) foregoing using it to cast an offensive or defensive spell later.

 

[BSF]

Mistwell,
I can understand your point except for one thing. The character has the Healing domain. This was a player decision that would seem to indicate that the character is a good healer. So, I am not sure I entirely agree. Perhaps more information would help.

Arcady - In my campaigns, any spell that isn't in the Core books must be approved for play. For Divine spellcasters, these are special prayers that are not widely known. You must research it yourself, or find an instructor. Generally speaking, an instructor will only teach the more devout and active members of the faith these new spells.