Temple of Elemental Evil discussion thread (merged)

[Hypersmurf]

Dwarven Cleric... Wears some nice high-end elven chain to retain 20' movement.

?

What about the whole Dwarven Plate-Jogging thing in 3.5? Not implemented in TOEE?

-Hyp.

 

[mmu1]

?

What about the whole Dwarven Plate-Jogging thing in 3.5? Not implemented in TOEE?

-Hyp.

Hmm... The manual lists it as one of the abilities, but playing the game it seemed as if he was getting slowed down. Hard to tell since the game uses exact distances for movement instead of squares.

If it turns out they implemented this, Mr. Cleric gets to be the new packmule...

 

[Dreeble]

Heya:

My group is a Hum Pal8/Ftr1 (most kills which seems odd to me), 1/2Orc Bbn1/Ftr8 (most consecutive hits, dual wielder, love this guy, he wears that bone helm which looks way cool), Elf Rog5/Ftr4 (also a dual wielder, I never really noticed whether it's true Weapon Finesse applies to a Short Sword but not a Short Sword +1, it's irrelevant now since I finally gave her Gloves of Giant Strength +6 (my poor Wiz will never level)), Hum Clr9, and Dwf Wiz8.

That Magic Weapon thing seemed to work perfectly, my Cleric now wields a +2 Shocking Spiked Chain. I tried the Magic Vestment equivalent on a set of Full Plate for Elmo (went back to get him when I learned he only takes money), but even though the Craft screen came up, all plusses were greyed out and it wouldn't let me add Silent Moves or Spell Resistance. I'll try again when my Wiz hits 9th lvl. I've found at least two other suits of Full Plate, mmu1, so if you've got that +3 Longsword, I'm surprised you haven't seen any. My half orc wields it, too.

I'm really crossing my fingers that a sequel will be made, and the Against the Giants series would be very nice for this. Sure the game has glitches, but they're the kind that can be worked around, mostly ignored, or hopefully resolved in a patch.

Take care,
Dreeble

 

[Dark Jezter]

Well, since everyone else is doing it, my party is a Chaotic Neutral group made up of the following...

Human barbarian 6 (When this guy rages and does a power-attack, most enemies go down in a single hit)
Human Cleric of Pelor 6 (Greater Turning makes mincemeat of undead)
Dwarf Wizard 6 (the wizard, and item creator)
Halfling Rogue 6 (the standard door opener/trap disabler)
Half-elf Bard 6 (the diplomat of the group)

I should also say that I love the Great Cleave feat; my barbarian got surrounded by goblins, then one of them tried to run past him, provoking an AoO... he killed it, and then proceeded to cleave through five more goblins.

Yeah, there are a few irritating bugs with the game, but nothing too major. The thing I don't like is how hard it can be to find masterwork items to enchant.

I definately hope the engine to this game is used in upcoming D&D titles.

 

[Simplicity]

And before people scream "strategy!" at me, there's no strategy in a battle where your guys just get mowed down no matter what you do. There have been several battles where I've reloaded after death numerous times - enemies are just too strong. It definitely reflects the "DM versus players" mentality.

The enemies in the game are definitely stronger than in most CRPGs. I don't consider this a minus. But there's plenty of ways to counter this:
1) Get a henchman or two!
2) If you have a druid, be sure to summon an animal companion. Spontaneous cast summon natures ally. A lot.
3) Build up your xp doing some quests in town.

(Minor spoilers, nothing big...)
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If you go through eight rounds without hitting something, you've got problems. Either with your characters or with where you are. I never ran into this sort of situation, and my party is hardly optimal (Pal, Fighter, Druid, Bard, Sorc) and I have no henchmen. There are other places to go besides the moathouse. Emiry Meadows is fairly easy except for one guy there. The Deklo groves are another place you can try... neither require going to the moathouse first.
(Though I did, and I was fine).

That's not to say I haven't had to reload a lot. I have. This game ISN'T balanced the same way a D&D table game would be. It's balanced the way a D&D computer game should be. The problem is that all of the D&D games lately have been such a cakewalk, that it's spoiled us all a bit.

And you're right, this game is a mean DM. It was a tough module, and it's an even tougher CRPG. And the computer will just sit there and casually beat your unconscious party members to death. But the fact of the matter is that you're a mean player, and if you get something in your path that you can't face, you'll reload and try it some other way.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I should also say that I love the Great Cleave feat; my barbarian got surrounded by goblins, then one of them tried to run past him, provoking an AoO... he killed it, and then proceeded to cleave through five more goblins.

My god... throw in a BBEG and Combat Reflexes, and it's Bucket o' Snails!

-Hyp.

 

[Pielorinho]

And before people scream "strategy!" at me, there's no strategy in a battle where your guys just get mowed down no matter what you do. There have been several battles where I've reloaded after death numerous times - enemies are just too strong. It definitely reflects the "DM versus players" mentality.

Lightphoenix, I don't know if this'll be helpful, but I've started a thread on the Atari forums called Advanced Combat Tactics. I've not had much trouble with the combat in the game, and maybe you'll find some of my advice there helpful. Here's the first post from that thread:

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica]I figured this might be a useful thread for folks who are having trouble with the game to learn something,a nd folks who are breezing through it to share some of their tricks. Some of the tricks I list will be obvious; others, not so much.

Use spells to divide and conquer
This is extremely important, and you can start doing it at first level. The game has a lot of spells that reduce or prevent movement for a group of enemies; USE THEM. They turn a battle against 10 enemies into a battle against the three enemies who made their saving throws. Just be careful not to get your own guys caught in the Area of Effect! Spells to use: Grease and Entangle are first level. Web, Spike Growth, Spike Stones, Solid Fog, etc. have similar effects.

Another class of area spells are those that affect the foes' capabilities. Sleep is fantastic at low levels for taking out mulitple enemies at once; later, scare and cone of fear can have the same effect.

If they they join you, they can't beat you
Similarly, charm person and other mood-affecting spells are great. Charm spells seem to work pretty well in the middle of combat (a departure from PnP rules), and turning even one bad guy into a temporary good guy can really even the odds. Charm person and Suggestion both have this effect; I've not tried higher-level charm spells.

One bad guy at a time
When you're attacking enemies, it's tempting to have each of your guys choose a dance-partner and attck that foe until it's dead. DON'T DO THIS! You want to tag-team enemies: kill, kill, kill that one bad guy until it falls, and then move on to the next bad guy.

Location, location, location
Remember your 5-foot steps. I used Control+s to bind the 5-foot-step to the s key, and use it all the time. You want to flank your enemies (even if your rogue is facing an enemy head-on, she can sneak-attack if she's got an ally on the enemy's other side), and you want to make sure your casters have room to step away from the bad guys before casting their spells. If you've got a guy with a reach weapon, he can stand behind your other characters and attack (although his target will get a +4 to their Armor class, due to cover they're getting vs. the attack). He can also stand in front of everyone and get attacks of opportunity on enemies that approach. Finally, if you have someone with the cleave feat, try to make sure they're in a position to threaten at least two enemies before attacking: that way, if they drop their first enemy, you get the immense satisfaction of a second attack.

Buff
Don't forget the buff spells! Mage armor is a wizard's best friend -- but it's also a monk's best friend and an animal companion's best friend. Use it! Barkskin, greater magic fang/vestment/weapon, and the various spells that up your stats are also really great. If you're wondering what spell to memorize at a particular level, you usually can't go wrong with a buffing spell.

Turn Undead
If you've got a cleric with the Sun domain, undead should never cause you a problem: destroying them is fun and easy, using the Greater Turning ability. Otherwise, you may have a little more trouble with them. If you cast Eagle's Splendor on yourself before you meet undead, it'll be a lot easier: turning is based off your charisma score.

Be careful with power attacking
Even though it looks like a great feat -- with a two-handed weapon, for every -1 to hit you take, you get +2 damage -- very often you're better not power-attacking at all. Let's say you've got a fighter specialized in a greatsword, wielding a +2 greatsword and with a strength of 18. Your damage is normally 2d6+2 (sword) + 2 (specialization) +6 (strength), for an average of 17. You can power-attack to up the damage by two, to 19 -- but that means that you're more likely to do no damage whatsoever. Is it worth the risk of not doing those 17 points of damage, just so you can maybe do an extra 2 points of damage? Sometimes yes; often, no.

That's it for now; do other folks have tips?
Daniel
lovin' this game

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[Olgar Shiverstone]

What about the whole Dwarven Plate-Jogging thing in 3.5? Not implemented in TOEE?

Worked for my dwarven cleric (before he died. Ironman ... sigh). His move rate only dropped when I put on the bugged chain boots & gloves.

Edit: Since everyone else is doing it, here's my current party (#2 after a long Ironman run that ended in a TPK). It's fairly standard, NG party:

Human Ftr4 -- glaive, whith combat reflexes & Improved Trip (fun, fun!)
Elf Clr4 of Fharlaghn (something different, too bad the Travel domain is bugged)
Human Rgr4 -- archery
Elf Wiz4 -- all item creation feats. Scribe Scroll is great! I use it constantly.
Human Rog 4 -- primary diplomat, plus dual-wielding shortswords.

I'm loving the game as well. I haven't had any major bugs; just the minor-but-annoying rules bugs, which I can overlook because I'm enjoying the engine so much. I'd consider it B+/A- quality overall.

 

[uv23]

Where are these delko groves? Wouldn't mind some extra little missions, so far the world seems very sparse.. I'm on my second start of the game and still pretty early on.. I've yet to complete any quests in town (they seem more elusive than those in BG2 for some reason) and I'm exploring the moathouse. I managed to kill the big ba at the emiry meadows which I'm quite proud of since I am only level 3 and he was a CR6 baddiepants.

Note to call clerics: spiritual weapon rocks.

 

[KenM]

My party:
Just hit 6th level, about 75% done with first dungeon level of temple.

1. Dwarf fighter.
2. Human fighter with spiked chain.
3. Halfling female rogue. x-bow support.
4. Human cleric of Pelor.
5. Elf sorceress.

Basic, but it works. Next time though I'll do something more exotic.